Also ben using an alt to like your own posts is crazy. Does not make you correct lol. Easily confirmable, don’t be weird.
and yeah lets imagine a hypothetical where FR and ES get buffed with a 50% cdr making ES a 15 second cd so we can then not take wake in our hypothetical scenario. Like this is what you can’t get through your head, imaging scenarios that are factually, objectively, not going to happen is worthless, it doesn’t even make sense. Its like telling me the devs cant get creative with tier sets now because if they wanted to make a singular tier set revolving around every single capstone talent they can’t do it because we’re locked into wake, as if they would -ever- do that, and we could also still take wake in that scenario anyway because again you can not take divine aux, but now we added onto our hypothetical scenario and FR/ES get a 50% CDR lmao.
Sorry man, those are not some big brain imagined scenarios that I could not think of myself, they are just objectively unrealistic and that is why I am not worrying about them, because they aren’t happening and will not happen. There is absolutely no reason to invent, imagine or discuss insane “hypotheticals” that are so off base from reality just to attempt to validate your point here. There is not even a 1% chance of these things happening, it is a 0% chance, that is why these scenarios you are inventing do not matter.
Right, I am well aware, but the scenario I was arguing against is talking about a tier set modifying all of our capstone talents aside from wake (meaning it would have to include DA/SL/FR and ES) and then on top of that adding a 50% dr to fr to make it the same cd as wake, which would then have to apply to ES to make it even. All of this being entirely unrealistic and implausible of course though, but that is the kind of reaching that is being done to try and create examples of not taking Wake.
In terms of ES also being a 30 sec 3 hopo generator in this scenario (discounting the %cdr that was brought up) you still would not opt for divine aux over wake in this unrealistic scenario because it just makes ES a 30 second 3 hopo generator rather than taking wake which would be a 30 sec 3 hopo generator that also contributes a ton of damage, whereas for ES all it does is add 3 hopo, no damage modifier or anything, so ES still does the same amount of damage. You can also easily get 3 holy power before using ES rather than having it generate 3 once used, making its value much lower. You would also lose using Wake in every single ES window if you opted for divine aux over it to make ES gen 3 holy power for no actual reason when wake would do the exact same thing but better.
execution sentence doesnt do damage, while yes if fulfills the hopo part of the engine but yoru forgetting es is supposed to be the result of the engine. taking 30% damage from all sources wake of ashes funneling into that damage making it do way more than it would have without wake.
It doesn’t do a single bit of damage unless you pump damage into it lol. Press ES on a target dummy and then do nothing else, it will do 0 damage. It is entirely dependent on the damage you do in this window, that is the entire point of this talent and is what the tooltip says lmao. Someone who doesn’t even know this trying to discuss credibility is wild. Wake does damage on its own when you press the button, which is why you would take it over aux as there is really no reason to take that over wake in any scenario, even the most ridiculous implausible ones we were discussing here. It contributes to es in a way you cannot obtain outside of talenting wake, aux does not.
Moving on indeed, hopefully to a discussion with someone who understands the spec a tiny bit.
Can you explain why? I’m not really all that in touch with current builds and don’t see why swapping templar to the other side of the talent tree would do this, especially when all builds take that node anyway from what I saw, regardless of gamemode, just like Wake.
I don’t think it would kill either choice if it worked off both of them, because FR would still be doing more in aoe and cleave while ES would still do better in ST? Hammer of Light is just an addon that would be giving more damage to ES and doing more aoe damage from FR?
Yeah i can, you literally said it did damage, so yeah. I mean the part saying the target suffers 30% of the damage you do as holy damage generally is dealing damage.
thank you for coming from a place of actual sincerity. the stark differences between the m+ build and raid build can be boiled down from light and right with the es and fr node. the only node these two builds share is wake of ashes. right now templar seems to allivate raid/st cleave issues for bosses like larry or council. while herald also tries to add more st while remaining aoe oriented
if templar procs from ES then this will effectively make this a raid only hero talent tree due to es inert weakness in m+ with how quickly prio targets explode. it will also make FR a non option if it doesnt proc from FR. we see this already with lights prism and hammer of light choice node for holy. now this ofcourse doesnt matter if theres talent tree changes but until we see those changes its best to give feedback with the c urrent tree and builds in mind.
i agree with this 100% if they make es and fr both proc it.
all in one huge burst at the end of its countdown.
if your trying to use that as a gotcha while ignoring the majority of ES damage is from the 30% of wake and the hopo generated for a FV right after. then your not coming from a place of intellectual honesty
This makes sense. You’d be able to use Templar + ST and not suffer for being ST when a cleave fight shows up, and vice versa with Herald + Cleave? This makes sense why almost all the templar nodes have “Deals more damage the less targets are hit”.
Oh, that was absolutely what I was proposing. It’d be awful if only one of the other did it. I’m sorry if I didn’t make that clear. That’s why I was saying ES would let you get Hammer of Light off just as often as current Templar with Wake, while FR would give you less HoL’s but they’d have higher value due to the holy damage boost. That might have been in a different forum post or in a different reply, though, so I apologize for the confusion.
Glad I’m at least not surprised about your behavior on the forums anymore lol. That’s a good thing I think, helpful for me anyway. Might also help if you actually read what you respond to but thats clearly an issue as well.
Jumping in randomly saying “ES is a 30 second cooldown” was meaningless anyway as it had nothing to do with the comparison, it doesn’t change the outcome of divine auxiliary vs wake at all. Pointless.
Truthfully all of this is a ridiculous discussion to begin with as it started from someone literally making up situations that they know would never happen because they can’t actually admit (or are too dense to see) that they were not correct in their original statement of creativity being blocked by rets needing to take wake as it’s a non issue.
I responded to “WhAt if eVeRy cApStOnE waS In A TiER SeT??” By pointing out we could still take wake by dodging divine auxiliary, which then changed to “WeLL whaT iF ThAt HapPenS and Fr/Es get 50% CdR man noW WhAt??” so no matter what answers are given, the reaching and inventing unbelievably bad implausible scenarios will not stop, for me this is a done and dead convo, not arguing with bad faith/dense posters at this point. Think what you want, luckily the devs are smarter than this.
I treat dishonesty as that, disrespect. If you can’t see the bad apple before you eat it, then it’s on you.
They literally said an ability don’t do damage, then double downed on it when it was an absolute lie. Then realized mistake, did not apologize, with an ego and tried to talk around deflecting said mistake, and then double downed on the lie again.
If anything I’d call it as gordan ramsey would tell lazy chefs “your attitude stinks”
He actually had valid points, despite you guys gaslighting and trolling him.
sorry i didnt think i had to talk like im talking to a 4 year old that needs absolute literal speaking cause he doesnt understand the difference between ondemand damage per gcd and a ramp burst mechanic that does damage after a certain time.
those points are not valid at all, you only like it cause it feeds to you anti wake agenda
but again why am i even shocked or replying?? if anyone has a ego its you. gl in your casual content mr lv 64 paladin
ES and FR have their own damage highly nerfed in pvp. Having an additional damage source after pressing them wouldnt be bad, but having an additional damage source from pressing a button that feels good on it’s own already works better for me and is likely prefered by most Rets that pvp.
If blizzard wanted ES or FR to be more impactful for pvp they would just remove the nerfs, but they dont want to. Also, nearly 100% or actually 100% of ES is reduced by player defensives, because the target and the targets healer have 8-12 seconds to react to the ES hammer falling animation.