This is correct. It will not be changed at this point.
Also correct. But they are bound and determined to shove it down our throats and not give Avenger’s Shield HoPo generation.
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Unless standing in consecration, auto kills everything that you look at as a paladin. Like we really don’t care about consecration.
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Even as holy paladin it’s violently annoying
(The talent to boost WoG while standing in C.)
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Retribution has the same spec talent we never use. Increase Shield of the Righteous (requires having a shield equiped) damage and WoG healing while standing in consecration…welp half that talent is useless if we opt for not losing the FV, Divine Storm and Blade of Justice abilities because those 3 require a 2 hander equiped, while our Tier set is all about BoJ/experg dots. While we can miraculously still use Justicar’s Vengeance while having a 1 hander and shield, for retribution shield of the righteous is no ST/AoE damage or damage mitigation replacement for losing the other abilities. Continuing to use a 2 hander as normal, Justicar’s Vegeance is a substantial dps loss compared to FV to get a quite small amount of self healing so most players worldwide never use it. Thats 2 dead talents right there. At least we dont need to spend points on them to get what does benefit us.
Ill say, for pvp, the pvp talent Hallowed Ground clearing and suppressing roots/snares gives consecration SOME reason for existing, even though few pvp Rets use Hallowed Ground.
Yeah those talents really shows how they didn’t know what to do with paladin class tree.
And then they went and made side reworks for the specs but you could see they got stuck on the class tree because they went and changed things within it PER SPEC.
Like how come those talents get to stay in class tree but consecration slow talent stays in the specs tree?
A bunch of the class problems stems from it but it wasn’t in their perview to rework it.
I hope they do for next expac.
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After allowing some time for this idea to settle with everyone, and considering what I can only assume is a predominantly negative initial response, I am curious how Blizzard plans to respond to this feedback - not directly but with changes etc.
Does it require a complete overhaul and start again approach or will Prot and Holy only really have 1 hero tree each which isn’t such a large cognitive load bolt-on with shallow connections to the core of the respective specs.
I honestly don’t know how much of “things on the ground for players to pick up” as a concept is going to remain as part of this hero tree.
Hopefully none. I really like the ideas some posters suggested of bolting the weapon and bulwark effects onto HoPo spenders. Give me a reason to be excited to cast WoG again.
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If we look back to previous class modifications I don’t think we’ll see a complete overhaul, but rather nodes changed or the mechanics of putting the buff on the ground changed to target a specific player or random buff someone.
They may also have some changes to specs that we haven’t seen where these hero talents would make a bit more sense, the version that will come with the alpha soon will probably be close to what we’ll get at launch.
Not sure if the dropping power ups is how I’d do this.
It sounds stupid, but I’d like it as a channeled ability where the Paladin pounds at an anvil and it grants a buff to the raid
You don’t mean that as an in-fight thing right?
You mean it as a pre-fight buff surely.
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I think in part we’ll have to see how much the other Hero Talents favor Holy and Ret, as looking at this tree in itself, it appears to heavily favor being a Prot Paladin.
Holy having a big issue with button bloat, and Blessing of Seasons being a fairly unpopular spell since Shadowlands Beta, it wouldn’t surprise me if 20%, or less, of Holy Paladins would actually use this talent tree…
…but that may just be Blizzard’s expectations.
They could have a design philosophy of:
“It’s okay if Lightsmith is 80% Prot and 20% Holy, long as as Herald of the Sun is 80% Holy and 20% Ret, and Templar is 80% Ret and 20% Prot.”
Now, I’m not saying that is the best way to design it, but on some level that should be considered a possibility.
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I don’t know if I believe that, they did make a lot of changes in dragonflight based on feedback, including spec design changes. Some things they get stuck on and don’t want to move away from (ie standing in death and decay for DKs if they want to aoe, standing in cons) but I think the feedback for Lightsmith is overwhelmingly negative from both prot and holy paladins.
I think it will see a rework, at least to the portions of it that bring actual problems like the weapons being a ground effect you need to pick up. Especially when testing for War Within begins, they may end up waiting for that to make any changes and if feedback stays the same they will likely change that functionality. I could be wrong but I think they will be paying a lot of attention to it, we may just need to wait for War Within testing to begin to see any changes, hard to tell since they’ve never really asked for feedback this early.
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I hope you’re right. Personally I’m just hoping they release all other Hero Talent Trees much sooner then later to receive feedback, cause from face value Lightsmith needs a lot of work and doesn’t give me much hope, Templar and Herald of the Sun may just need as much feedback too.
I think the sooner we get more info the better.
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Personally, I’d be very curious to know what their other options were for Paladins before settling on Lightsmith.
While I’m not particullary against Lightsmith being a thing, I would have assumed they would have went for something more like:
- Prot/Holy - Templar
- Holy/Ret - Herald of the Sun (Sunborne)
- Ret/Prot - Lawbringer
I think most probably are hyped for Templar being something similar to Gladiator Stance, or just be this tanky beast of a spec, and I’m just not sure how that will actually carry over for Ret considering how powerful they already are in PvE.
I definitely like that we got a preview of this stuff much earlier than usual, it lines up with their new stance on listening to player feedback. I would like to see more, but it seems like War Within alpha testing starts very soon according to their roadmap so my guess is they are getting things ready for that and once that comes we will start seeing all of the trees and possibly changes made to them from feedback.
I know DKs are unhappy with theirs too since it pushed standing in DnD even more. There is definitely work they have to do all around, so I hope we see stuff soon as well.
Zaim could also be completely right and they are okay with these trees being a focus for each spec, so Lightsmith might be 80% prot focused, Herald might be 80% holy focused, Templar 80% ret focused, basically exactly what Zaim said. I actually believe this might be a good way of going about it, I could see it being the case as it kind of is with Lightsmith already minus the fact prots dislike it as well due to the weapon functionality.
When we see what the others look like that will confirm it, but Herald of the Sun sounds extremely cool so I am kind of looking forward to it, trying not to get my hopes up lol.
Why does that matter?
Those are for another expac.
Why would current balance/tuning have any hold on design of the next system?
Ret is going to get nerfed going into “war within”, all the increase to base damage they are doing to artificially make us scale are going to be reverted for the first patch.
I just mean historically speaking, Blizzard hasn’t had much success with making tanky DPS “work.” Whether it be something like Gladiator Stance, to the recent issue of Mythic+ groups not needing a healer.
I’m just surprised that they didn’t make Templar a Prot/Holy thing, were it’s probably easier (safer?) to roll more defensive traits into, while making the Ret/Prot tree something more offensive like a “Lawbringer.”
It just seems easier design wise is all. ¯\ _ (ツ)_/¯
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Ok, yeah I see what you mean.
I think there’s some space for tankyness on DPS.
What’s crucial after that is the amount of heal any given DPS spec can output VS the healing requirement of specific dungeons.
IMO DPS spec that have heals should have a limited ability to heal but one that is clutch.
I think the WoG for Ret is a perfect example at the moment, if you start using it non-stop you’ll significantly reduce your DPS but it can top someone very quickly in a pinch.
AND it is not an efficient way to heal a whole group at the same time and not sustainable.
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Why havent we seen the other Hero talent trees? I’m eager to see where the Devs think we should go with those!