I especially like these.
3 Likes
the amount of friction over this reveal, should clearly point the devs in the direction of abandoning ship and going with plan B.
on paper, this seems like too much micromanaging, just having to play the UI alot more than healers already do. just bring back Fae Guardians and work off that, re-do the theme and voila, less player friction/frustration.
I have macroed Angelic Feather to myself all through Dragonflight. Divine Feathers wonât change that at all. I hope a revisit to priest mobility is planned because the redundancy between Feathers and Body and Soul (talent) is there.
4 Likes
the dragonflight talent tree revival was not all bad. there was plenty of good, as well as new and refreshing ideas. so its not like i think war within hero talent boards will suck, in fact there might be some value in them, but for a game this old, playing it boring and safe like how this game has started to go, is not going to win any new fans, nor keep old ones.
for starters, the gutting of power infusion at the tail end of dragonflight, one of, perhaps the ONLY, valuable thing a priest brings to party when compared to other healers is, in light of the fact you wont give priest good mobility (door of shadows), you wont give them good reverse mobility (shining force), and you wont even give them an interrupt, is such a depressing turn of events that it makes me want to catch up on my steam backlog of single player games instead of continue to participate in this BS behavior experiment that blizz (sorry microsoft) is running.
but if that wasnât even the worst thing, you then go and neuter every spec that benefited the most from what PI used to be. so the answer to the question, âdo you guys even know what fun is anymore?â is obvious, because no you do not. you do not understand what it feels like to play this game.
for example with the original dragonflight shadow priest tree, you gave priests the option to choose between mind sear or psychic link. that was good. then you took one of those options away, forcing every priest to play the exact same way. that was obviously very bad, and any honest person with a lick of sense can see it. so it feels like you must be banking on all your customers to be blooming idiots in order to put up with this crap.
my future hopes for priest have dwindled to cold embers not even stirred when poked by a stick. i have spent more time playing a demon hunter, warlock, death knight, warrior, and even paladin casually. all of these other classes do not appear to suffer from the extreme class prejudice shown to priest, who is always punished as a scapegoat for decisions the devs make, or their lack of ability to see this game is never going to be taken seriously as an esport, and that what matters to keep customers long term, is that the game feels good to play, and also that there is a reason to actually be in the world, more than simply doing world quests or collecting mogs.
you all have forgot how to make people want to log in.
edit: iâd like to add a thought which came to me a little late, but that having a single tree that affects two specs completely separately seems to invalidate the entire concept of this hybrid or âsharedâ crossover talent system. i noticed this in the druid board. the effects seem completely different for each spec. at which i thought, just what is the point of this? if this is how uninspired its going to be, might as well just make separate talents for each spec, in their own trees. the laziness on display here from the devs, is kind of despicable. ask chatgpt for some ideas or something come on
1 Like
I like the concept of taking Power Infusion and changing it into something that has a bit more choice behind it. However, I think the Premonition talent, as executed currently, feels a bit clunky. Iâm concerned that the slot machine style buff changing every one second will require a weak aura to manage and ultimately be more effort than its worth to time and execute well.
I would like to see it changed away from physical and spell damage to 10% increased primary stat which is easier to manage and then have it function differently. Perhaps instead of having to click it twice it could grant your primary target 10% primary stat and increase the healing received of your next Power Word: Shield or Prayer of Mending target by 25%. I think it accomplishes effectively the same goal but in a more simplified manner and makes the talent feel a bit more powerful but not too powerful.
I think its interesting to slightly give emphasis to rotationally abilities that may have not been used before for Disc and Holy in terms of Prayer of Mending and Power Word: Shield. Itâs an interesting concept to know that an âOracle Disc Priestâ is going to play and maybe even make different build choices than a âVoidweaver Disc Priestâ. Numbers set aside for now, Iâd like to try it out. It, on paper, sounds cool and I canât wait to see the tree get refined more.
The Prompt Deliverance and Angelic Feather choice node is underwhelming and should be revisited. I like the idea of encouraging Priestâs to use feather to give someone else mobility but the execution of that spell and having to ensure someone actually runs through it is a risk thats not worth the trade off. The reduced cool down of purify is simply underwhelming and doesnât even present a real choice. I think something needs to be done with this node.
Clairvoyance is an interesting final node. I like the concept behind it where it âspreads the power of Premonitionâ but the randomness is not very fun. Something that has this level of power behind it needs to be able to be preplanned. Itâs going to feel awful getting this buff when you donât really need it vs those rare times the stars will align and you get it when it really matters. The âhighs and lowsâ of this talent are not a fun aspect of gameplay. I would like to see this either toned down in power but given a higher chance to occur (50% chance but the power its granting is reduced to 50%) or maybe making it an on use talent with a 2 minute CD.
Overall though, I like the tree. I think it needs some tuning (obviously numbers are subject to change at this point), but I think its cool though that it will slightly alter your gameplay in a different and unique way and that is interesting.
Blizzard doesnât want priests to have any movement abilities. The only movement abilities we have are intended to be used on allies to help them and us being able to use them is a bug they havenât been able to find yet.
Divine Feathers is âRemove Your cast@player Macroâ the talent.
3 Likes
I havenât fully listened to plan B but someone here mentioned it was for premonition to instead give primary stat.
If they do that then having an Aug in your group will always be the go to since ebon might will mega buff that.
Plan B is also bad if thatâs true.
4 Likes
Please stop externals like this.
Was an entire hero spec really made around some awkward PI redux?
You realize priests are going to be pressured into playing Oracle instead of something interesting.
Quit.
12 Likes
The more I think about it the worse this tree looks.
Itâs bad Blizzard.
Like designing razageth with a push back that kills and 1 class that canât survive on itâs own bad. Frustratingly bad.
A 10% dmg buff which isnât one because of mixed damage profiles. Like how did nobody say âjust make it 10% damage for the love of godâ.
Cycling when I have to time it with CDs of the DD. Guess you didnât know you always stack it. PI isnât good by itself. Itâs good if stacked with CDs f a DD.
I am very worried. DF talent trees are still stuck in beta for at least 1/3 of the classes.
And now we get this mess on top.
5 Likes
Since forever, World of Warcraft has always prioritized the power of DPS over Heals. Itâs why DPS always get loot priority, and why Power Infusion is always used for the benefit of DPS and not healing. PI is not a Priest cooldown. PI is a Demonology Warlock cooldown that just costs the Priestsâ GCD.
No matter what the other two Hero Talent Trees offer, as long as Oracle provides a DPS increase, it will likely be the mandatory choice for all forms of high end competitive content, and I am not looking forward to this AT ALL. If I wanted my levels and talent points to primarily benefit my allies, I would be playing Augmentation Evoker.
5 Likes
remove power infusion and augmentation evoker, thanks
5 Likes
Priest main here who plays both Disc/Holy and have for years. Hereâs my 2-cents on the hero tree:
âPremonition: Requesting that this whole diabolical rework of Power Infusion gets scrapped for something more passive.
INSTEAD, simply keep Power Infusion and remove Twins of the Sun Priestess so that PI becomes our own to use as we see fit. If the team still likes the idea of Premonition, then Iâd rather it be baked into Power Infusion as a bonus so that it can be used passively, with only a small % buffs given to allies (with a cap/random) so itâs not required to use it for DPS purposes only. I want the decision back on when to use Power Infusion for my own healing or dps rather than being forced into using it for otherâs DPS. I do not want Power Infusion gone completely and nor should it be.
âGuardian Spirit: the 2s duration increase is a slap in the face. Requesting that a Damage Reduction percentage be added to Guardian Spirit. I would say that trading the healing increase for a DR is way more impactful and competitive than leaving GS where itâs been and adding 2s to it.
âDivine Feathers: This is a nice passive for the times that my self-macro feathers didnât register on myself and someone else took it, which is rare but happens. Thatâs it. Would rather that weâd get an extension on the movement speed buff and a shorter CD on the charges instead though.
To also add, priests are in general a slow class. This could be mitigated by integrating a reverse Leap of Faith into our toolkit, ie pulling ourselves to our target. This was an option via the glyph system a long time ago, and I think having it back would be a fantastic QOL change.
âPreventative Measures, Assured Safety, and Grand Reveal: Decent passives for Holy and I like the addition of Prayer of Mending working with Power Word: Shield/vice versa. However, I dislike the idea of adding yet another ability to be used on CD for each class. It seems that Discipline would be pigeon-holed into having to cast Prayer of Mending on CD like Holy, which is NOT a good idea considering Discipline is GCD locked into a certain rotation when ramping already.
Also, while I like the idea of this, I also have qualms about this change affecting the core identity of both specs. If theyâre sharing all this spec-specific abilities, what differentiates them from each other outside of their play-style?
End notes; I understand that priests are the only class with 2 healing specs, and they want to add something more to them. However, Discipline is already a completely different flavor from Holy. No need to add additional elements to complicate either specs.
8 Likes
I , for one, am ecstatic that more support oriented options are being considered. That some form of Fae Guardians didnât return this expansion had me* very disappointed. This is what I hoped for, this is what I like to do: heal and buff others. Peak gameplay for me.
Iâm not without concerns, though.
- I did like that thereâs an alternative version where main stat might be the âdamageâ buff rather than what is currently Insight and Glory for the reasons listed (particularly magic damage double-dipping for Disc, unless thereâs some adjustment to how much +damage is dealt for Holy to compensate).
- Will Solace be particularly alluring outside of PvP/Mortal Strikes?
- Related to this⊠is +Healing% more worthwhile in War Within in high M+ over something that increases survivability? +Healing is useless if people canât survive the incoming damage
- Foreseen Circumstances â Iâm not sure if 2 seconds of Guardian Spirit is equivalent to +10% damage on Pain Suppression
- I really want Waste No Time to be good in M+. Heal would already be good, but Iâm hopeful that this means Prayer of Healingâs power level in dungeons will be looked at. With current numbers, an instant 20K healing doesnât make using the one minute CD even equivalent to Circle of Healing
- I would prefer to pick the buff with a wheel (maybe using something similar to the ping wheel) rather than wait for the buffs to cycle⊠especially in high-stress situations⊠but otherwise, as long as we can reliably hit the buffs while still healing, I suppose itâs fine
- Is Brilliance 5% Mana maximum mana over time or just an instant amount?
- How does this balance against Symbol of Hopeâs 10% of missing mana and will that be looked at?
Iâm curious to see how this plays with Divine Word.
1 Like
The extent of pure support was perfectly nailed in shadowlands with guardians ability. We sacrificed boon to get damage mitigation, cd reduction and mana which was perfect. Please just copy night fae from fated season and use that for priest support. And kyrian for archon spec with 1 min boon!
Can we all agree that the discipline buffs are significantly better than the holy buffs. Blizzard clearly hates the holy spec. How does pain suppression get an extra 10%? Damage reduction and guardian spirit only gets like 2 extra seconds. That is total BS. Pain suppression is a vastly superior talent. And iâm sure theyâre going to be able to keep the ability to use two charges , while guardian spirit has zero mitigation and requires you to still heal through it. Guardian spirit should have an extra 10 to 20 seconds Plus an extra twenty to forty percent healing done.
1 Like
Nah i like pi for a dps when i heal. To each thier own
Personally I do not like the look of Premonition as itâs currently described within the talent tree and I donât really understand the type of gameplay youâre trying to promote with priest. While having an ability that buffs the damage of other players is something weâve had for a while now in no way do I think it should become a core aspect of the class.
Iâm honestly very disappointed by this tree and I find most of the nodes to be quite boring and unimpactful. I donât see any new synergies here or anything fun to think about, just another set of weakauras and whisper macros that will need to be set up to optimize this new ability I didnât ask for.
Healers want to heal. Just because Iâm keeping my allies alive doesnât mean I want to play a support role, as you seem to have noticed and responded to with the creation of Augmentation.
6 Likes
Oh and most importantly I would HATE using the angelic feather node youâve proposed. Using your personal movement ability on allies is something that no other class besides evoker really has to do, and I wouldnât enjoy being forced to position another ground-targeted ability to maximize the move speed bonus.
6 Likes
i think these two talents are really whatâs going to be a burden on priests altogether, because of wording of this ability right now I can cast one shield every 5.4 seconds, and a PoM every 8.6 holy and disc can hit both these buttons, but its very obtrusive to our gameplay. it needs another look at over all.
From a Holy Priest in Battleground PvP, Itâs a no for me. Adding another mechanic on top of Holy priest isnât an attractive option. I already got too much on my plate in large scale PvP and this will be like trying to do a rubik cube on top of my current gameplay. Iâll look forward to Archon and hope for a simple Hero talent tree.
The original Holy Word system (Chakra) in Cataclysm wasnât received well until they toned it down to what we have now with access to all Holy words at once (and slightly being brought back in the form of the unpopular Divine Words talent). I see no flexibility and too much randomness coming from this. I have no desire to play a buff slot machine mechanic on top of my current rotation. I didnât particularly enjoy the Fae Guardian buff in Shadowlands for Priest, but it was more simple at least. This different approach on Power Infusion is in the same vein and trying to complexify priest gameplay when we have a lot of button bloat and RNG mechanics in place with the current talent tree. Discipline got a pass about it recently, but Holy was overlooked. Should these concerns be dealt with, then I would be more open to Oracle. Power Infusion is a controversial buff, and this is going full steam into that territory. I wish I could still just buff my shadowfiend with it like I used toâŠ
Comments about the talents beyond Premonition :
(Iâm skipping a few like Prompt Deliverance, because I have no strong feeling one way or the other about them for now)
Waste No Time: Premonition causes your next Power Word: Radiance, Heal and Prayer of Healing to be instant cast and cost 15% less mana.
Feels very âSurge of Lightâ but for Heal, not a bad thing in itself, but 2 talents gave me that impression in the Oracle tree (See: Great Reveal below). Prayer of Healing is useless in PvP, itâs too weak even as an Instant cast. PW: Radiance already got a Discipline PvP talent for instant cast already (Ultimate Radiance: Instant cast + buffing it).
Preemptive care: Increases the duration of Atonement by 1 sec and increases the duraction of Renew by 3 sec.
It doesnât seem specific to your original spec, and Renew is a priest ability for all spec, so Disc is getting the benefits from both Atonement and Renew while Holy wonât because we donât have access to Atonement at all.
Foreseen Circumstances: Pain Suppression reduces damage taken by an additional 10%. Guardian Spirit lasts an additional 2 sec.
In PvP, I would say the extra 10% Pain Suppression over 8 secs feels strong compared to the extra 2 seconds of Guardian Spirit. Guardian needs a little bit more than that, should consider buffing the sacrifice and restore part from 40% to 50-60% on top of the 2 extra seconds even if itâs not always being used as a sacrifice. Even if numbers are not final, it will just tie it more to Holy for PvP.
Great Reveal: When your Power Word: Shield is fully absorbed or your Prayer of Mending of Mending heals, gain a stack of Grand Reveal. At 150 stacks, gain an additional charge of Premonition.
Feels very âAnswered Prayersâ. Thatâs the second talent in the Oracle tree that gives that feeling to an already existing talent. Thereâs a huge reliance on Prayer of Mending talents. For PvP, Disc priest donât really pick Prayer of Mending even if they have access to it in the priest talent tree, itâs not considered strong enough without the Holy talents (which Holy have a ton).
Assured Safety: Power Word: Shield applies 1 stack of Prayer of Mending to your target. Prayer of Mending casts apply a Power Word: Shield to your target at 20% effectiveness.
I like it. Itâs simple, itâs built-in on our abilities. Love it.
Divine Feathers: When an ally walks through your Angelic Feather, you are also granted 100% of its effect.
Not gonna comment that much about the talent itself, but if the concern of the team is priest being one of the least mobile healer, they should probably take a look at slow protection or a different mobility ability in the tree. In PvP, all our mobility is linked to speed buff (Body and Soul, Angelic Feather), our only protection is Phantasm which removes the slow, but not preventing from just having it spam cast on us in PvP. Everything is movement speed based, so anything reducing movement speed is a direct counter compared to a Leap/teleport/roll like some other class have access to. Thereâs a reason why people wanted the option of having Vault of Heavens back, itâs not movement speed based and that option can be greatly useful depending of the situation.
Versatile Divinations: Premonition can now trigger the Brilliance and Urgency effects.
I kind of like the concept of Brilliance, because itâs working well with our Symbol of Hope class fantasy. Priest used to be heavy into mana mechanics like Mana burn in Classic and Mind Rot during WoW developpment.
Clairvoyance: Premonition has a low chance to grant you Clairvoyance.
Low proc rate are terrible.
There was not a single Holy priest main in the interview with Combat Designer Rodney Pare and Producer George Velev? Thatâs a concern that you couldnât get one Holy Priest for a tree that is about Holy and Discipline at the same time.
6 Likes
I genuinely hate the PI changes. It never, ever feels fun to figure out who to PI already, adding this extra layer of complication on top of it feels very bad. Please change the direction of this tree, disc and holy should not be âsupportâ specs that buff the damage of others. Even if you donât change that (which you should), the implementation of the external buffs is very poor. This reminds me of the IQD trinket in Shadowlands. The trinket was very powerful, but the community as a whole did not like using it. Frequently it would give out undesired buffs, instead of the one buff that actually made it a strong DPS contender. The versatility of these buffs may seem like a positive at first glance, but in reality it just means that you have a chance to not get the buff you want.
No one likes giving out PI already. The Night Fae ability was way too clunky, and was extremely unpopular because the other covenant abilities had more throughput (hps or dps). Please please please redesign this tree.
8 Likes
Thank you for releasing the preview of the Oracle hero talents â itâs always fun to peek at what kind of things are being worked on!
I generally like using Power Infusion (one of the people in my guild set up a WA for PI targets that plays a Gregorian chant and highlights the raid/party frame of people who have just used a big CD, which makes it a really fun button to push) and was excited to see that one of the Priest hero talent trees would focus around the ability (although Iâd still prefer to see Priest just get a dedicated support spec!).
I think that the base idea of the talent tree â predicting the future â is very solid, since healers generally have to do that anyway to be ready for group damage, etc, and it would be nice to have some sort of payoff/reward for that kind of knowledge/preparation (other than, you know, the group not wiping). That being said, I feel like the Premonition ability and the talent choices as presented kind of miss the mark and would end up feeling frustrating, rather than fun, to play.
Echoing what others have already said in this thread, the Premonition ability as presented would add yet another layer of mental load/micromanagement onto healing gameplay, in addition to everything else we already have to deal with. For simpler encounters this might be fine, but I really donât want to do Fyrakk or some of the dungeon bosses (like the ones in Ruby Life Pools) while having even more things to pay attention to. In particular, I donât feel like having the buffs cycle would be a good idea â Not only do I have to pay attention to choosing the buff that I want to use (and then knowing enough about each spec to choose the appropriate damage buff for them â do melee shamans/DKs/paladins get more benefit from the magic or physical damage buff?), but when I use an ability I generally want to use it NOW (also, what happens if I need to suddenly start casting a heal because someone stood in a mechanic and the buff that I want to use cycles out? That would just feel really terrible).
I agree with Caithyraâs feedback here â either give us three different versions of Premonition (healing increase/dps stat increase/damage reduction, etc.) or make Premonition a PI-style spell that applies to the entire party (a spell that dynamically changes its effect based on the targetâs role might also work). Caithyra also had a great suggestion of each path/lane in the tree supporting a different idea â healing, mobility, or utility (such as defensive CD reduction).
1 Like