Aye.
And perhaps selfishly, many of my issues come down to my tendonitis- I only have 8 keybinds I can comfortably reach on a rotational basis. Right now, Mindbender is the odd one out, which makes it annoying, sometimes difficult, to mouse-click every 30 seconds. It also means I don’t do well dpsing with other specs; Disc streamlines the healer/dps rotation, so I enjoy that aspect. I would be happy enough to just have my Scov-free insta-proc Radiance spec from 9.2 return and be viable. Oracle looks so tempting in spite of all its flaws because of Waste No Time- I’m imagining macroing Premonition and Radiance together and going ham with Insight chains.
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Discs damage/healing output is attached heavily to the S3 tier set bonus because you can reset Mindbender in <15s with a lot of haste. The new Voidweaver is what fills in the loss of the S3 bonus because you now get a 40-50% uptime on the Mind Blast mechanic converting your smite into Void Blast with 2x atonement healing. Then obviously you get all the synergy with talents like Abyssal Reverie.
Disc will just be a constant rollercoaster where your damage/healing is bad for 5-10s gaps while Void Rift and Mindbender are on cd. That’s kinda how it feels now when Shadow Covenant is down and you’re trying to smite to get the next Mindbender.
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I still hate the fact that there is… But isn’t any Talent variety still for the Left side of the tree, I’m all on board for Oracle for sure, Will i take a DPS/Healing Hit most likely, should it be like that?? I don’t think so. I haven’t bought the X-pac yet so i cant test out things and there aren’t Any YouTube videos covering any valuable Oracle stuff for Disc.
Will Be my Build based it off of Casting as many Penances paired up with “Prem of Insight Reduction” in correspondence with reducing the CD of Ultimate Penitence.
I would like to Take Some of the Prayer of Mending talents on the Left side of the class tree just to Have a Beefier Mending but i don’t think wasting the points would be the best. Cauterizing shadows look nice as well… But they have to change the Tooltip. And then i noticed that Halo was changed from its current 40 sec. to a Min now? which is prompting me to change to Divine star But i like not having to position myself to make sure i hit enough ppl ya kno
Have you tried using a 12 button mouse? I usually play Holy and could never achieve all the keybinds without it. Disc barely has buttons to press.
this 100% .
I like shadow covenant/bender playstyle IF ( IFFFFFF) we could also do other things aswell. ATM its a desperate smite spam to reset mind bender in order to do any healing at all. we either need some power outside of mindbender, like investing on the light side of more sustain/absorb playstyle that disc was known for OR blizzard needs to buy every disc player a new keyboard because the hotkey for smite is about to be buried inside
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Disc got half a tree revamp in 10.2 just like Holy got half a tree revamp in 10.2.6. They updated a lot of the middle talents, but completely left the bottom talents alone except for the addition of Overloaded wtih Light.
This is why you have so many end tree talents that are byproducts of how Disc used to play pre-revamp.
Either way…
Divine Aegis got nerfed from 10% to 5% which killed its potential. Aegis of Wrath will probably work okay with Rapture, but other than that it’s a useless choice.
Weal and Woe is another talent that is just useless. You cast Penance and your next Smite does double damage: whoopie.
Overloaded with Light is a raid thing.
TE is useless as well because Mind Blast has a 24s cd. Also, when you’re in Shadow Covenant you’re only casting shadow abilities. The new Voidweaver converts your Smite into Shadow so the only interplay is with Penance. TE is a byproduct of when Disc had two Mind Blast charges on a short cd so you used to weave Mind Blasts and Smites constantly.
Harsh Discipline is fine.
Expiation is utterly useless. Just like TE it’s a byproduct of when Disc had 2 charges of Mind Blast.
That just leaves Mindbender, but Mindbender was only mandatory because of the DF S3 tier set bonus.
Disc has the most clunky end tree talents because nearly all of them don’t work, are a byproduct of how Disc used to play, and/or are useless.
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i only take it because i can time it have it benefit Both PWr shield and Smite during casting (Spell Queing) Which i felt was better than Aegis of Wrath
I was A Fan of Casting PWr Shield on CD, and was a fan of the Passive shielding of Divine Aegis but like you said the nerf reaaaaaaly hurt… It barely does anything Maybe 3-4% and i have 30-40% Crit Overloaded with light should be baked into Ultimate penitence
Priests in general suffer from 2-point syndrome on the bottom of the tree. If you look at a lot of other classes most of them get 5 end tree talents and everything costs 1 point. Heck, Mistweavers have 7 end tree talents and Holy has 3.
We get 10 points on the bottom of the tree and Priests have to spend 6 points on 3 talents which means you can only pick 2 end tree talents.
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I despise Aegis of Wrath, largely because it is a total misnomer. A decaying shielding mechanic is neither wrathful nor solid protection.
Much better would be ‘Your PW:S is 15% more effective. Your PW:S reflects 40% more damage. All Damage reflected by your PW:S triggers atonement.’
Heck, if you did that, cleaned up the bottom left, and then made Contrition ‘Your single target healing/absorbtion abilities trigger atonement at 10/20% effect’ you might have a non-shadowramp playstyle that would work… Maybe.
this sounds very intriguing, Contrition would work well if they could somehow Implement that One tier set bonus that never went through when u Used a Defensive Penance it would shoot a couple bolts out towards enemies as well, and vice versa To enemies it would Shoots bolts out to Allies.
That idea might be a good replacement for the soon to be defunct Twilight Equilibrium. Without the double-smite from s3-4 backing it up TE’s value will plummet(even with it, it’s value is arguable).
The idea I was proposing for Contrition changes was to have it ‘help’ whatever they eventually turn Oracle into. The ‘Lightside’ of the tree needs some help to synergize with itself, then new Oracle could build on that, instead of trying to take a dissociative bucket of odds and ends and tie them together with something that does not even really fit well with Holy/Disc to start with.
i mentioned above i would Adore if the Left side had more synergy with Penance, and it tying in even more with Ultimate Penitence CD Reduction, Light side Deals with Smites and Penances Dark side Deals with Mind Blasts and Mindbender. And Have Absorbs/Shielding be Neutral as possible between both specs if that makes sense.
Part of the problem is that anything in Disc that buffs holy ends up buffing shadow as well, because of Shadow Covenant. Then the numbers are tuned around taking Scov anyways. They won’t allow those talents to be strong because that makes the overall package too strong.
There needs to be some kind of anti-synergy between holy and shadow in order for a second viable build to exist in the Disc tree.
Or just slap a spec specific modifier % on the relevant talents that are causing problems, easy numerical fix as the time for design changes is running out.
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Indeed, which was why I suggested alterations to Contrition and AoW. Unlike DA, HD and BoL, atonement based on healing and damage reflection would have very minor interaction with SCoV therefore producing a minor anti-synergy with it in that you already don’t really use shields or heals during “go time” anyway.
Sadly that is the real problem isn’t it. We priest deserve better than going yet another xpack without serious work on our gameplay. Yet you are right, and it looks more and more like all we are going to get is some quick numeric fixes.
And here are the sum total of changes in today’s notes. It is clear to me that we are being left out again and can expect another bunch of 1/2 baked changes in 10.1 or 10.2.
Hero Talents
Voidweaver (Discipline/Shadow)
Entropic Rift now properly scales its damage up when it grows from casting Penance or Devouring Plague.
Entropic Rift damage reduced by 25%.
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Following on Caith’s note of all the 2 pointers at the bottom of the Disc tree: I went looking, and there are only 2 healer trees that cap at 6 nodes wide- Holy and Disc. Every other healer has at least 1 row of 7 nodes. I haven’t gone in-depth but I wager that bears out to Priests having fewer nodes, fewer paths, fewer points in their class tree.
Priests are “skinny”. There are shorter paths to grab anything and fewer overall choices. For Disc, with the way Scov, Schism, and Abyssal Reverie stack, that also means that the shadow burst style doesn’t have to invest too much in its side, and has leeway to wander over and grab choice nodes from the holy side. Here’s the recommended M+ build from wowhead as example:
BAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAapERgkIJRSTKJJRIBAAAAAAAAAAAFlUItkApQkIiIK0SkEUCA
(or link to wowhead Disc guide: https://www.wowhead.com/guide/classes/priest/discipline/talent-builds-pve-healer
Just casually grabs Blaze of Light.
My general suggestion: reduce some of the two pointers in the 9th row. Widen the bottom three rows with new talents. Take some power from Scov, Schism, and Abyssal and move it to new talents on the bottom right. Create or change weak nodes into holy synergistic on the bottom left.
Bravo, Blizzard.
I didn’t think you could outdo your work in DF beta, but we would’ve had PW:GFY2 posted a month ago if you were giving priest the same level of disregard you gave it then. This time around you’ve done nothing but remove Mindgames and said nothing about why no other changes have been made the whole dev cycle.
You’re really stepping up your game. I know this level of neglect isn’t consciously malicious and that you mean well, but people don’t judge you by your intentions - they judge you by your actions.
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Soooo, if the 9th does not have a raft of Priest class/spec changes we riot? I can totally get out the pitchfork, who has torches?
They asked for feedback on Oracle, told it was horrendous, they made a change that didn’t do a thing and it’s likely because they don’t have the man power to actually spend time the way they did before to make changes because they still have retail, SoD, Cata Classic, actual classic and MoP Remix all happening at the one time that they need to work on alongside TWW.
Seen the same thing happen time and time again, it’s madness to think they will actually do anything, they make a decision and completely refuse to admit they were wrong and change it, then leave to little time they just say “we will monitor and address issues throughout the expansion” to give themselves more time to waste.
With the overwhelming negative feedback received for Oracle, it should absolutely be top of the pile before anything else to actually be looked at. In all honesty, I genuinly think Oracle would likely be played by less than 5% of the Priest players if it goes live in this state, it really needs addressed.
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