Well based on what I’ve seen, def threw out that support-y style. I guess that was to be expected since it’s no longer based around PI but now it just looks…busy? I guess busy.
Oh the numbers will be nerfed for sure. I am expecting Entropic to be 75% less and Void Blast to be -50%.
What I am referring to is that Voidheart(+20% atonement during EV), Dark infusion(+100% smite to atonement effect during EV), and Dark horizon(+1 sec per smite duration for EV) when coupled with say 20% haste mean you have 75%+ uptime on something is basically Scov with s3/4. So why would they keep Scov around, or even more let you stack them?
Ok so the more I look at it, and after watching some streamers talk about it; this version of Oracle, imo, also needs to be tested out the window.
Playing wait for the correct buff in kits that don’t particularly need said buffs most of the time is incredibly boring. For Disc, Void weaver provide insane better controlled output (on a shorter cool down then shadow Priest themselves, no less!)
So yeah.
PS; delete PI, or make it personal only. This is your regularly scheduled reminder~
For me I think the biggest problem with the new oracle is that they have turned the core concept into one of my least favorite mechanics – press a button to buff the next button you press. This for me has all the problems that maintenance abilities like slice and dice have in that the button themselves isn’t the fun bit you just have to press it at the correct part of your rotation to not suck compared to a true cooldown which is press the button to be awesome. It may be a subtle difference but true cooldowns like PI have a big payoff so are fun but the more often you have to press it and the smaller the effect the less fun pressing the button is. This would feel much much better with a bigger effect and a longer cooldown. 1 minute is too long to be considered rotational but too frequent to be truly engaging like a true cooldown is. Also true cooldowns have big effects and nothing here is big. NOTE: Having a flashy graphic won’t help if the actual button isn’t awesome to press.
This for me is painful and just wants macros and automation to make it invisible. Especially as a healer I dislike multi button presses to make the final button press better. I much prefer the press the button and awesome happens of traditional healing cooldowns such as the holy words or guardian angel. For me this model of button making following buttons better is just adding latency to my ability to make a save. Press button – save happens is just so much more responsive than Press button – press second button – save happens, it is just adding needless complexity.
Compare to Voidweaver where the new power replaces a button you wanted to press anyway and you can see how much more responsive a design it is.
I would also like to say that I feel that the buffs available are way way to weak for the extra friction introduced by this extra button press and managing which buff you want to actually trigger. I feel that they could combine all 3 effects into one single application and we would still be a very very long way from overpowered!
I cannot see this being popular on a mechanical level with the current incredibly lackluster power levels. Especially if your disc where everything about voidweaver is just so smooth and natural. If we think back to the stated goal of a hero spec being: what you already are but more so, then voidweaver fills this perfectly but oracle does not in any dimension be it power wise, play wise or thematically.
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As discipline: I am very much not a fan, as premonition feels like it adds more rigidity into a fairly rigid spec, while it seems like it should give flexibility through choosing our buff.
For better and worst, we are very heavily tied to our evangelism (in raid) and our pet, and have a hard time healing outside of those windows. The addition of premonition with a 54s or 60s cooldown (depending on choice node) that amplifies our existing heals feels like an extra constraint on top of those existing timers being juggled, as it doesn’t naturally sync well. While we do have the option to get another charge through narrowed visions, we are then forced into rotating through the three buffs, which removes the ability to choose which buff we want for the situation, and adds a weird gameplay loop where we want to “dump” solace to get a very strong piety + insight combo.
Piety is extremely good, and fixes some more fundamental disc issues so I hope it doesn’t go away, and the other buffs struggle to compete. Because disc has very little smart healing, and especially in raid because disc has to ramp 10-15 seconds before damage events so can’t always “choose” which players will be targeted by mechanics, they typically have a lot of overhealing. Similarly during 13-16 target miniramps, there are a few players who randomly won’t get atonement. Piety gives some much needed smart healing to smooth that out. By contrast, solace is very niche, and even with solace disc couldn’t compete with most healers. Like in dungeons, to focus more heals onto a player in most circumstances, it would be significantly better for disc to use piety and just naturally significantly overheal the party, and let the smart healing do the work.
Grand reveal requires either 75 pw:s usages or adding prayer of mending to our toolkit, neither of which feels fun. Shield is underused and could use buffed, but just feeling forced to throw when there isn’t significant outgoing damage to farm grand reveal isn’t compelling, and especially needing to do that with prayer of mending which doesn’t interact with anything in our kit feels extra annoying. I’m not looking forward to during the run between every single dungeon pack, during every bit of downtime in all content always, keeping track and throwing out just random shields and poms when there’s just enough damage to proc them, but not enough damage to threaten the entire group.
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Can someone confirm how Premonition’s cycling works now? I haven’t had time to catch a stream to see for myself.
I can see two ways it could work: casting any spell cycles Premonition to the next one in sequence OR casting a specific spell will place X Premonition as the next one (ex. PW:S puts Insight next or something). I assume it’s the former, I think I’d prefer the latter, but both have their own merits. Cycling with any spell means you’re only ever two GCDs away from the Premonition you need at most, while the Premonition being based on last spell cat means you always know what to do to get to it, but you could be at the mercy of CDs to get there.
Every on gcd spell you cast cycles the ability, even while it’s on cooldown. The order is velens, cdr, healing increase and the order is fixed.
For disc, if you start your raid ramp with it showing velens then it will be velens when you want to press it before you start blasting.
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How does it change if at all when you using this talent?
- Narrowed Vision (Passive) – Premonition gains an additional charge and now only rotates to the next spell when you cast Premonition.
Sounds like each time you press premonition, then that causes it to change to the next type?
So it no longer cycles via every other spell use?
Correct, then it only cycles once you cast prem. So first would be velens, next would be cdr, then healing increase, repeating.
It should note that talent is absolutely terrible because the only premonition worth casting is velens.
Insight is good. With a bit of haste, you can toss out 3 PoMs in a couple seconds, which for holy right now is a lot of value. It also builds into grand reveal, so in a raid I could see just smacking insight a lot and velens for the big CD moments.
The ST healing one though is completely worthless.
im not going to type out all my reasonings several people here have covered it enough but sry blizz you swung and missed again. you are making a fun spec just feel bad to play.
2 Likes
So, what do you recommend for Disc players who turn their nose at Shadow spec, and who don’t do group healing anymore?
Seriously asking, because this Hero talent system is going to coerce me to abandon a character I’ve played for 16 years. Neither Oracle or Voidweaver are palatable.
If you’re completely against ‘shadow’ as a concept?
You play oracle and just use premonition of Insight to refresh penance/PW:S/Mind Blasts.
It’s not going to be as effective as Voidweaver at its current balance point, but we don’t know what Voidweaver will feel like when it hits live.
Also if you’ve been playing disc and staying away from the entire shadow side of the tree this whole time, being less optimal probably doesn’t affect you.
This is still crap - I thought you were abandoning this concept altogether?
Voidweaver looks great - Oracle is hot garbage
Very disappointing
2 Likes
I don’t get why they just can’t buff something that is an integral part of the toolkit similar to what they did with Disc.
No new buttons, no stupid rotating buff to micromanage, and no extra cd to monitor and track
There are a bunch of obvious things you could do to fit “Oracle” that take all of about 10 seconds to think of. Here are a few examples
-
Holy Fire or Smite - debuff your target - insert stupid flavor text about predicting their actions - and cause dmg done by that target to be convered to effective healing on you and your party
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Holy Word Sanctify / Holy Word Radiance buff your allies - insert flavor text about providing insight to your party memmbers - causing dmg reduction / and or overhealing to become an absorb shield
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Power Word Shield / Renew buff your allies - insert dumber flavor text about insight - causing a flat additional dmg reduction for x amount of seconds
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Atonement procs power word shield / Prayer of Mending procs power word shield
It literally took me no time at all to come up with 4 concepts for them to create a tree that would be much better than what these clowns have spent months messing with
I don’t know how you do not understand that no one wants a rotating buff they have to micro manage
3 Likes
Lots of things that have already been touched on with the problems with the new Oracle Talents, but the thing I would just like to highlight is how little wow factor it seems to give. Like it’s hard not to look at Sunfury summoning phoenixes to call down meteors, or Riders summoning the 4 Horsemen, or even seeing Voidweaver tear open rifts in reality, then look at Oracle and be like “Oh you can choose 1 of 3 utility abilities”. At least with the original concept for Oracle (despite all it’s problems) you would at least have a cool moment where you get all 5 buffs and give it to your party and could go off. I guess to summarize, there’s nothing about this that really FEELS Heroic at all. I would like to see another rework of this but I know a second one at this stage might be unlikely.
2 Likes
I am hoping that the datamined/alpha version we are seeing is just a placeholder(2 NYI, nothing else but premonition being changed, and tone-deaf nodes like Divine feathers, and honestly almost every other choice node). There is some hope that what we see is just a prior build item that got push out to alpha and the real one is totally different.
They would have to be blind to have missed the prior feedback in this thread and elsewhere that made it crystal clear that NO ONE wants to play slot machine on top of playing their actual class. This new iteration is actually WORSE for disc as it means you may have to insert up to 2 ‘junk’ spells into your ramps to get the buff you want(holy is just about as bad, hope you didn’t want to use that CD!, hurhurhur).
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i am hoping they just scrap it on the next change and do something different altogether.
no more wasting time on this.
i don’t want to see Priest left with unfinished designs on release, again.
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I think a lot of the history here is spot on for how the devs typically operated with Holy’s changes. The reason I’m hesitant to say there will be major changes in 11.0 specifically for Holy is simply because we just got a good chunk of changes in the most recent patch (a surprising amount), so it seems counterproductive to change this or that talent and then several months later overhaul them again when at this point you could have just not done the first batch of changes, saving yourself work.
With all that said, you could look at what was recently changed and then say those are the things probably not on the table, but some untouched things might be getting a bigger overhaul, that’s possible. For example, I don’t expect Empyreal Blaze to be deleted/or changed much going into 11.0 since it just got reworked, but I could see them delete Guardians of the Light and replace it with something new that is more fitting for an expansion change.
Last thing you can do is read into the hero talents. If you keep seeing this or that spell listed, odds are it will be staying. But you can also start to guess if something is being removed or changed because it is having 0 interactions with the new talents.
There is no reason to cast PoM as disc if you take Oracle. You would gain nothing from casting PoM.