Now do shadow, because as a spec that keeps getting jacked with we don’t have a glimpse or even an idea of what you’re doing with it. It seems like you guys are going to be giving yourselves basically no time to revisit it. Because you have to know if disc got this many bad reviews. You know shadow will be worse.
As much as I hate to say as a shadow main, we likely won’t be seeing anything until alpha.
Afaik, Shadow and sin rogue are the only specs in the game where we haven’t seen a single hero talent tree for.
Edit: forgot to add enh
1 Like
and enhancement
But yeah the main concern I have is that we’ll have 0 time to see iterations, hero talents already released dont have any follow ups, so chances are the longer we wait the less time for our feedback to be taken into considerations
Its good that Oracle is back to the drawing board, but we don’t know anything about the other bad trees, and how much time will we have to review the new Oracle and the missing 11 trees
Ahh right.
Forgot we only saw farseer from the shamans.
I am too. Oracle was horrible design and I’m glad to see that they agreed and took it back (whereas a couple of years ago, they probably would’ve forced it on us on the ground of “u players have no idea what ur talking about”).
And I’m also where I want us to see the trees early. They took Oracle back and promised a rework of it, so either we see Archon or VW and like what we see or it’ll give much more time for feedback for them to use.
That being said, we’re still months away from release, much less a PTR so I’m hoping that whenever the alpha drops (I’m assuming this coming week or the next if the roadmap is accurate), that it’ll be in a better state than Oracle was so that we’re not sitting and waiting on a rework.
So we are still expecting to see Hero Talent trees for…
Demon Hunter
- Fel-Scarred
Hunter
- Sentinel
Mage
- Sunfury
Monk
- Master of Harmony
Priest
- Archon
- Oracle (Rework)
- Voidweaver
Rogue
- Deathstalker
- Fatebound
Shaman
- Stormbringer
- Totemic
Warlock
- Soul Harvester
So I guess technically Priest, Rogue and Shaman are in the same boat with Priest trailing behind slightly due to the recall/rework on Oracle.
But Priest will be the only class that all it’s Hero Talent trees will have some form of healing aspect due to at least 1 or 2 healing specs will have access to the trees. So unless they simply make 2 separate trees for each corresponding spec and simply overlap them on top of one another, it’s going to be quite the unique challenge to craft trees that both make sense while not being absolutely terrible or overpowered pending the spec you are when you choose it.
I think Shaman and Rogue are both a lot more easily worked with when crafting trees that have common themes while not having to worry about balance issues as much compared to Priest. With Rogue it’s easy because it’s still a melee stabby stabby focused class and Shaman can tap into the shared elements and totems to find an interesting common theme to focus around.
Not so much the case with Priest, but we all already expected as much and as such, not surprised at all about how long it’s taking to get a glimpse of what they are planning because quite frankly, I don’t think they had a central focused and probably only recently found themselves in a state of questioning exactly what they can do that makes sense to begin with, let alone fleshing out the details.
Par for the course really.
Still curious but this is not at all unexpected lol.
3 Likes
Tbh I’d kind of like to see one of the shadow talent paths have an element of offhealing like shadow used to have way back in vanilla and BC (ie VT restores health to allies when they damage a target affected by it, etc).
Not saying to make it the entire focus (and definitely not turn it into a full on support spec), but if there was anytime to bring some elements of that back, it would be now with the introduction of hero talents.
2 Likes
They have already done this with most of the classes that have shared dps and healing hero talents. There is currently no reason to believe that shadows hero talents will have anything to do with healing.
I’m more curious about the actual design of Priests come next expansion because this one has been a massive rollercoaster.
Disc and Holy feel like they’ve received half of a tree revamp. Shadow needs more tuning because its in a pretty rough spot. Priests in general are one of the few specs ingame that can’t get out of roots, pushbacks, knockbacks, etc. which is being used on the last bosses on Mythic.
Hero talents shouldn’t bandaid fix core spec issues though.
2 Likes
Didn’t see Shadow listed so nothing for me to really comment on I guess. Regardless of the intent to allow personal choice it will always come down to selecting specific abilities to min/max. Just scrap the idea and balance out the classes rather than add more complexity.
New oracle tree certainly makes premonition more user friendly, but hasn’t done much for making the other talents more exciting.
Sad 
On the second Oracle tree iteration:
The changes are in the right direction, but they ignored some key points. Being tied to PI being gone is great and changing the buffs from being allied buffs to self buffs is great.
“Using your abilities rotates through the available spells” needs clarification. My interpretation of this is that if you cast PoH and then Premonition, Premonition will cast as Premonition of Piety. If that’s the case, this seems MUCH better than the original incarnation. It definitely needs to be seen on the beta, but as interpreted the fundamentals of Premonition look like they’re on solid footing.
For the individual buffs, please make sure they can be tuned for Disc and Holy independently. For example, 5 seconds off radiance is probably WAY stronger than 5 seconds off anything holy has.
Narrowed Visions
How it rotates needs clarification. This seems to confirm that my interpretation of Premonition rotation is correct. That said, how I interpreted it is preferred and Narrowed Visions implies that Premonition would still require an initial cast and a “lock in my effect” cast. That’s clunky and I would much, much, MUCH rather just have Premonition be a single cast based on whatever you previously cast. There are some interactions I can think of that would be frustrating (like using the spell you want to use while buffed by premonition to choose what premonition you get), but still having it be a single cast is much preferred.
Additionally, gaining a second charge being tied to changing the rotation behavior is bad. If someone does or does not like pre/post-cast rotation, that encourages or discourages them from using this talent regardless what the rest of the talent actually does. Bad.
Grand Reveal
This is very similar to Answered Prayers for holy. It seems very odd to have both talents. That said, I prefer Grand Reveal because it gives you a charge rather than just instantly triggering the spell at inopportune times like Answered Prayers. This is more feedback for Answered Prayers, but having a spell trigger at hard-to-control times is really not enjoyable. For example, on M Fyrakk AP usually triggered during movement heavy times or when you’re already banking your holy words. It was a strong talent, but a frustrating one. AKA the worst kind of talent.
Summary
Right direction, but still needs some adjustments. Curious what the 2 unimplemented talents are.
1 Like
Honestly I really hope they go the opposite direction on this and remove movement abilities and kicks (whatever priest is the only thing that doesn’t have it) and make content not require everyone to have these things. Razageth’s knockback was an insultingly bad boss mechanic and dungeons have way too many kick mechanics. Homogenizing priests to have the same stuff everyone else has is boring.
If the effect is based on what you cast, isn’t that just what chakra used to be?
They gave oracle velens, I guess that’s one way of making something appealing.
I still dislike having an extra button at all, but it’s probably functional to macro it to a spell like Divine Word is so I don’t hate it.
It’s better than the first outing but still underwhelming / needs clarification.
More bummed that there’s still no Archon implemented at all.
New Oracle still sucks. Stop trying to make Premonition work! Any concept focuses on rotating buffs is cringe. Buffing other people was just 1 of MANY issues with the first version. TRY AGAIN!
2 Likes
New Oracle is extremely underwhelming in the form it was datamined. I have no words, just completely boring and not bringing anything for Holy.
Will wait for the official rework post, as the datamined clearly has unfinished changes and nodes (so will not rant again about the 2s increase to Guardian being terrible, for now)
Too bad they all read more like a performance tax than anything actually exciting to play with.
Completely fails at addressing holy. still has laughable nodes like 3 seconds renew duration and 2 seconds longer on guardian spirit.
The theme is still lacking bite for me as well. Has the dreadful rotation of spell selection been changed?
Given that these have been datamined rather than formally announced I am hoping that this is a part-way implimentation which is supported by the missing nodes and that even the existing nodes are being reviewed as part of the rebuild.
This may be copium but given they have talked extensively about other systems today but the silence on Hero Talents in general has been deafening I suspect that there is trouble in paradise on the whole hero talent system and would not be at all surprised if they are disabled for the start of Alpha which would be a very bad sign.
3 Likes