You may wish to take a look at the bottom of the shadow tree. The last 4 talents are all Idol of N’Zoth/C’thun/Yogg-Saron/Y’Shaarj.
That said Archon is fine for holy/shadow. Oracle is not fine for Disc/Holy. Arbiter would be my first choice, though Inquisitor or Exarch would be ok too. If we absolutely have to keep the ‘future visions’ theme then Prophet(ex: Velen) or Clairvoyant, think the Iron Maiden version.
I did?
So tell me, do you think that with the existence of the Old God talents / Theme, do you think they are more aligned and belong to the Oracle tree? NOT the Voidweaver tree?
If thats the case, I would love to understand how you came to that conclusion. Because I simply am unable to make sense of that math.
If you can’t judge your performance with an Aug you can’t judge it without an Aug. It’s self-evident when looking at logs where you can improve with or without an Aug in the group.
Right there with you. Between a refusal to give Shadow a “Non Shadowform” option so we can see our avatars, and the general mismanagement the Class has experienced, there is a reason I play Warlock and Mage almost exclusively as my ranged, or Elemental Shaman.
The truth is, while I love the spell aesthetics of Shadow; the fact that it’s always last for consideration has turned me off it from a standpoint of “No dont bother. Blizzard will gut the class and your time / reps wasted.”
Really they should make Disc “Purification” and give us a second DPS spec / Shockadin styled spec. No player can play more than one spec at any given time, so having 2 heal trees is honestly speaking, redundant at best and borderline placing Priests in the same scenario as Demon Hunters with their two specs at worst. Especially when one works and the other does not 9/10 times.
Almost at this point would be alright with them deleting Disc completely and making Priest a 2 spec class, if it meant that Shadow was competitive on a regular basis, got better support, and Holy likewise was not constantly overshone.
Glad to see the communication and willingness from you guys to revisit changes ahead of time. W community manager!
IMO – keep the theme.
Kick Disc out of this theme.
Add Shadow
Keep Premonition. 1min cd
Remove the focus on pie.
Add a new theme that makes the class feel cool and unique.
Idk just a quick thought idea…
make a talent that casues Renew or VT will a chance for the prem to proc very briefly.
make Clairvoyance spread the bellow effects of the ideas i made down bellow.
allys for holy, enemies for shadow.
“Holy or spirit is summoned and flies to the target or hurls something at the target w.e”
“replicated % amount of healing you’ve done to target when hit”
“replicating % amount of dmg you’ve done to target etc”
This is not a dot, it more like a burst heal or dps.
I am sure you can make this into a dot instead of flat dmg as well.
other random thought.
" you foresee the impending death of your ally or enemy, marking them with the grim or w.e"
Renew or VT will cause a chance for the prem to proc and mark the target.
after a few sec, the mark unleashes, flatt healing or flat dmging the target.
if multiple prems get proc, have it stack. Once it reaches a stack threshold, the proc activates faster. this could easily be talent.
or
Make it into a dot and have the stacks reset the timer and increase dmg or heal. this could easily be talent.
Give it a cool spiritual effect when it marks and procs.
Idk just random thoughts before I sleep.
the point is, make it is something cool and thematic. Anything over Mario kart box.
Only remark I want to bring up is that oracle isn’t available to shadow priest (which seems to be the spec you’re talking about), so it wouldn’t have any bearing on the balance of that spec. The other points are certainly legitimate concerns.
I agree with most of what you’re saying. I don’t necessarily agree that Disc should be turned into another dps spec. It does offer a variation from Holy healing in how it does what it does, but I feel like it (and augmentation) need to be in their own world of being a ‘support’ of some sort, but without the focus being that they increase a few others damage purely rather than their own, or offer buffs that are unique to a support role while still providing their own damage and healing, possibly from raid-wide buffs/enemy debuffs to a larger degree than something like old Ret Judgement (3% more crit chance to anything hitting the target you judged via sanc seals talent). Things that helped with mana regen when mana still was a major balance factor for classes, like how VT made spriests a mana battery on top of the dps/healing/utility they brought, while still being a viable dps.
That’s more of a pipe dream obviously because wow is built upon the trinity and attempts to deviate from those three roles too much results in issues such as evoker where it’s only every too strong, or too weak.
The game has been made so every class so self sufficient that the only way support abilities can be implemented right now end up being game breaking or useless, and impossible to balance to a state where blizzard just kinda throws their hands up in the air for entire seasons/patch cycles so they just wait until the next expansion or major rework to do anything meaningful.
Hell; Bring back the alpha bucklers for priest, bring back inner fire and some other vanilla-esque skills and give priest some sort of absorb based tank spec for all I care; just stop trying to redefine Disc’s role as a healer in the game by moving its power into abilities that vastly improve other classes strength rather than improving discs’ kit for itself. If you’re gonna push hard on atonement healing, than make it significant enough to be meaningful damage at the cost of less raid healing, but give it the ability to be in a stance that either makes it strong for single target, or strong for multi target, not both so there’s an impact and player choice about how they want to approach each encounter (something with a mid length cast time to swap between so it’s not just ‘ooop, need to do ST healing right now, just swap ‘stance’ and then swap back!’. Like summoning a warlock pet type of thing that stops you, can be interrupted, and is a meaningful decision to make that has risk associated with it (Oh damn, I have the wrong pet out with no fel dom, so now I need to cast for a lengthy period of time and not provide dps/healing during that time).
There’s so many ways they could make changes to Disc, and make a ‘hero’ talent tree that leans into them rather than pushing on an ability that is used to make other people just do what they do better instead of what YOU do better.
I’ve been not reading every single post in here, so forgive me if I miss something posted in the number of lengthy feedback responses.
But what they are saying about oracle does apply to shadow as well in many aspects due to the fact that shadow has PI available in the same form as disc does currently, and the oracle direction for PI on disc/holy will cause/encounter the same issues of being balanced around what it does for others, rather than what it does for the priest casting it.
So as long as PI exists as a spell that can be applied to others, it will have the same issues on balance and influence on balance for any type of priest.
Hear hear
Another reminder that PI just feels bad for everyone involved!
Step 1: Return PI to self only and give us Vault of Heavens in place of Twins
Step 2: Make the CD 90s to line up with other abilities -OR- undo the 40% nerf
Step 3: Profit!!!
Just wanted to say devs that I actually really like the class fantasy you have in mind for oracle and I don’t understand why some people were attacking it from a lore perspective.
Would like if the shield aspects of the design were emphasized. Grand Reveal is a cool concept but could be reinterpreted. I also like the concept of the mini-bloodlust in clairvoyance, but again it could be reinterpreted.
There has been a lot of negativity surrounding oracle but I hope you don’t completely scrap it.
No one is against the ‘oracle’ theme idea
We’re all against the mechanical implementation, and for that the tree had to go back to the drawing board, which they are doing.
I honestly couldn’t care less about the lore. My issue is the idea of a buff generator in the middle of combat chaos that makes my mind melt.
Admittedly I didn’t read most of this thread, I was referring to some YouTube videos which can be too influential in terms of swaying opinions. So I just wanted to reiterate, oracle is worth exploring and developing.
You should link the particular video in question that comes to mind.
I’m curious to see it myself. Because I been paying attention to what I can yet I have not gotten the impression that anyone either on the forum thread or content creators have taken issue with the Oracle “theme” as it’s been overwhelmingly targeted at the mechanical nature of its current implementation of its core mechanic and how many issues that causes both from a player usability standpoint as well the social interaction when considering others as well as the mental overload of knowing and timing exactly who gets the best buff at the most optimal time as you will most likely fail and have the buff completely wasted for the majority of the time unless you are god tier level on your timings and knowledgeable in all class and specs to a very In depth degree as well as being superb at your multitasking in doing the healing and dispel and other utility that comes along with priests while juggling the buff around to the right target.
tl;dr
It’s issue is from a mechanical implementation, not a thematic direction.
Indeed. PI and any of its variations is what needs to go, and the main argument against Oracle.
Outside of that, we all good about seeing the future!
Ok, though I thought I saw others say similar things (Asmongold?) in particular it was this video by Marcelian:
A silly irony is that he says oracles don’t fit thematically while showing Prophet Velen footage. Not throwing any shade at him, just disagree with his stance and wanted to make sure devs understood. Just the other day I was running Underbog on an alt and saw oracle mobs, for one example.
I would also agree that Prophet Velen would be the best example to attribute the connection of Oracle theme with because of the “Divining the Future” aspect.
So yea, I suppose it is pretty silly to not see something like Oracle as something that can be related to Priest with someone with the title of “Prophet” attached to them lol.
But dat Xal’atath thought, she can be my priest any day!