I wanted to provide some feedback on the Devastate Rune for Warriors that I think might have been overlooked.
No, this isn’t another post from a Warrior saying they didn’t get cool stuff like the other classes. I think I need to play the game before passing judgement on that.
As someone who tanked and played original Classic Vanilla from MC > Naxx, you did not use Sunder Armor much of the time because you couldn’t - a 5 CP Improved Expose Armor provided a stronger ARP amount.
At level 25, Improved Expose Armor is actually less than 5 stacks of Sunder Armor, however, at level 40, 50 and 60 - this is not the case - Improved Expose Armor provides more ARP.
My suggestion is to either:
Allow Devastate/Sunder Armor to be used even when a more powerful buff is on the target, and try to compensate the lost damage/threat from the lack of stacks in some way.
Make the Devastate rune also provide Sunder Armor with an ARP buff, so that it is equal to or greater than Improved Expose Armor at least at a minimum level 60 - if not at other level break points as well (40, 50, etc.)
From raid leading/tanking in the original Classic Vanilla WoW Meta - the rogue that “had” to use Improve Expose Armor, and keep it applied - basically saw it as a “chore” role - I doubt you would see any rogues upset about this change if it happened.
Please consider this as, if it is left as is, this would drastically change the ability to even use this rune for end game raiding, and I think it is meant as a means to keep warrior tanks viable despite all the other class buffs.
I never remember imp EA being a thing most people bothered with and with 10 man dungeons I don’t even think it’d be worth it, imp EA is huge because of warrior stacking in 40 mans, we’ll have to see how plays out but it doesn’t look to be a big concern.
Yeah not being able to cast sunder as a tank because EA is up has been an issue for a long time. It was manageable, but now with warriors depending on Devastate this ought to be looked into more.
oh i see the problem now.
you’re worried that the calibre of SoD player is such that you will have tons of rogues in every group who just spam expose armor and have no care about the consequences. well, can’t blame you there retail mindset and all.
Pretty sure most bosses are near to zero armor with 5 stacks of sunder or EA + Faerie Fire. The “more powerful buff already active” error return is fine. So long as imp EA doesnt prevent you from using Sunder/Devastate it shouldnt be a problem.
And as long as Imp EA doesn’t prevent the sunder from being applied under the hood, and the threat corresponding with it. That’s the only concern here.
Imp EA was 100% meta for any reasonably competitive guild. It provided more ARP and a relevant dps increase for all phys. dps in the raid. Well-documented, look at any log from that time from a decent guild.
Right, so you make the entire raid do less damage so your warrior can sunder. Doesn’t make any sense if you care at all about performance
lol everyone feels the need to make everything a classic vs retail thing. You can’t “spam” expose armor, it’s a finisher. You’re commenting on something you clearly don’t understand
Not true that most bosses are at zero armor with those debuffs. Only on “caster” categorized bosses or mobs (i.e. KT) would that be the case. Imp EA does currently prevent you from using Sunder Armor at all on the Classic Era client, and was also the case in Classic Vanilla. That’s the problem.
Lot of uneducated opinions here! Guess I’m not surprised, hopefully the Classic team is competent enough to sort through the garbage and read/apply the little decent feedback there is.
Yes, in 40 player raids, which we will be doing in about 6 months if you assume 2 months between SOD phases. It is a meta that has and will exist, unless a change is made - which is the reason for this feedback.
Are we just supposed to keep our mouths shut and hope they get 40 player raiding right with a myriad of changes, a small team, and no feedback (not complaining) prior? Such a short sighted point of view here. Their team has literally said SOD is a chance to try things and get player feedback to get it right.
Great catch and something that needs to be addressed. It’s dumb oversights like this that make me question the Classic dev team’s ability to make SoD. It’s literally their job to see obvious things like this. Giving windfury to Alliance but no blessings to Horde in P1 is another obvious screw up.
Yes, 100% at least until it’s somewhere within sight, from what they’ve said they’re down with changing based on the experience of the playerbase, so let the player base get some experience before you spaz out about it, for all we know by the time we get there phys dps will be much less important, what if by the time we’re get to 40 mans the meta is all about shadow and nature damage by stacking aff locks and mutilate rogues, we have seen such a small amount of the overall runes and gear compared to what we will have by the time we get to 60 and are hitting MC, at least SEE what the first phase is like before you go down a rage hole about what the meta is.
You can make a change when you know something isn’t going to work just by reading what is presented. You don’t need to experience it to know. See Aspect of the Lion being moved to level 25 cap based on feedback.
Your argument that there will be a meta where determining the strongest primary ARP debuff available won’t matter is nonsensical. Using your own example, the mutilate rogues will still be doing a fair portion of their dps as physical damage and will want the strongest ARP debuff available. If it remains Imp EA, a Warrior cannot Sunder Armor with this debuff present, negating their proposed primary buff to tank warriors to keep them up to pace with the other class changes.
It is a fairly clear oversight, I’m not “going down a rage hole” or “spazzing” about it - I’m just pointing it out, and offering some suggestions to fix it. The only frustrating part of this thread so far is people coming in with opinions without actually understanding the mechanic in question.
The problem isn’t that SA needs to be better than IEA for some type of balance reason, it’s that a warrior literally cannot use the ability with IEA present - which it will be (things remaining the same) in any relatively competitive 40 player setting. There will always be some level of physical dps that need it - even if the meta is completely different with ret paladins, enh shamans, hunters, mutilate rogues, feral druids, etc. - all of these specs do physical dps and will want the strongest arp debuff. It is crazy to believe there will be some meta where all physical damage isn’t relevant, and therefore the strongest ARP debuff doesn’t matter, in a 40 player raid group.
Excellent catch by you though. And if you didn’t bring it up now, I feel like it would have been a sudden shock at max level when people realize the situation you’ve just set out.
I’m not sure what a proper solution would be, but hopefully Blizzard sees this and implements something.
Two things: You should edit your title to say “Feedback on Devastate Rune. It doesn’t work with IEA”
And don’t engage with Eyr, they’re a known troll going through the 5 stages of grief about SOD. They won’t engage with you in good faith so don’t waste your time.
