sorry to break it to you, but the new HoT healer class is MW and Pres. We have no niche now. Grove Guardians got introduced in DF and that gave us a new niche, and honestly i love it. Sorry not sorry ?
Most of the hate Iâve seen for support type skills that benefit the group is just people laying blame for the state of the WoW community and the obsession with the Meta.
They probably have heard/seen all these complaints they just ignore and choose to ignore them because itâs not their problem or even something they can just fix.
I genuinely cannot comprehend how you, someone who hasnât even cleared the raid on heroic, can even think to write me this nonsense. You are the very definition of a backseat raider who makes stupid points based off selective overall log data without understanding how to actually interpret such data.
First of all I hope you realise the dungeon statistics you are looking at are POINTS, not damage. You realise thereâs almost no variation in the data on this, did you even bother to read the damn values of what youâre looking at (and trying to make an argument with) or just look at Boomies position on the graph? Wasting your time and mine embarrassing yourself linking this.
Gnarlroot - Balance performs poorly because CDs donât align with the damage amp, the same reason you see other 3 min classes perform poorly on that fight. Also notably: the adds are completely inconsequential and any add damage is, quite literally, pure pad. Also trying to make any point with the first meme boss on Mythic is equally stupid because there is no damage check or anything on this fight.
Igira - filter damage to bosses as thatâs the bulk of the fight. The spears, while they do need to die, are overkilled so heavily and so quickly that nobody would ever say to bench a Boomie because they need spear damage. Itâs irrelevant cherry picking this fight, especially this late in the tier where the fight is overgeared - if you went back to early Mythic data Boomie would look better with spears.
Tindral - if you were to look at this data with no context youâd also think Feral is one of the worst specs imaginable on this fight (and Fyrakk too), yet itâs one of the best - again looking purely at statistics with no understanding of the fights and what damage is relevant is pointless. Boomie issue on Tindral is 3 min CDs, where you donât have anything up for each shield burn (which includes a 50% damage amp). Vast majority of root damage is overkill pad, especially the 2/3 divebomb sets of each phase. Tindral data is going to be the most skewed and meaningless data of ANY boss because of not only this, but ways you can manipulate the intermission damage amp shield duration, and also Augmentation not attributing damage on absorbs (where there is also a damage amp, inflating any spec that Aug buffs there).
Fyrakk - another fight where the adds are largely irrelevant yet overall data is going to be skewed by people padding on them, another fight where filtering damage to bosses is essential. Boomie CDs donât line up with these phases to pad either.
That said Tindral/Fyrakk arenât amazing Boomie fights but the reasons have little to do with Starfall/AOE, moreso CD timings and defensives. But yes, Boomie mastery has issues, but youâre just cherry picking any fights with adds that die fast (especially this late into the tier where fights are outgeared and things blow up) and point and say âboomie badâ because they canât pad fast enough on meaningless adds, but again you are just interpreting data wrong.
Go write a post complaining about Boomie Mastery rather than talking to me about it because youâve taken me not wanting a pet to automatically Moonfiring for me and spun it in a whole other direction.
Also trees casting Moonfire wonât be of much value for the issues you cite regarding Boomie Mastery ramp up times when it comes to bursting adds, unless you hold treants for adds I guess but even then it would be presumably max 3 targets. So I donât see any real value in trees auto moonfiring, when there is already a lot of concern about too much throughput being in pets vs the buttons you actually press, at least from the Resto side. It doesnât solve the issues you are concerned about and certainly doesnât add much of value to the rotation of either spec, so all of this feels very pointless discussing. But alas my original post was largely resto pov anyway.
2 Likes
Well, I will give my opinion regarding this issue or dilemma of players unhappy with Grove Guardians from the perspective of an M+ player.
Warning: I support the idea of Grove Guardians, but I will try to be as neutral as possible.
I understand that many do not like the idea of having a âPetâ or âTotemâ, which heals or receives more benefits than the class itself.
However, keep in mind that Rdruids have been improved several times outside the scope of trees.
For example, at the beginning of this Season 3, we received many improvements regarding our spell kits such as âRegrowthâ, âRejuvenationâ, âWild Growthâ, etc.
They even obviously nerfed the Grove Guardians, so that they are relatively useful with the tier (which is very useful, because it not only enhances the pets, but the druid himself).
Letâs also remember that pets are useless if the druid does not summon them and if you like them, as everyone would say, âYou can get them by playing with Nourish.â
The Grove guardians are a new concept or style of play for the Rdruids, which at least for my part is welcome.
Because we druids are known or were known as preventive healers or âhealers in time.â
Which is both a good and bad thing, since many times we flanked at times where the damage coming in was so high that we couldnât pick it up or heal it.
Or even some âBurstingâ affixes, but now I feel (at least on my part) that I can heal said affix and even deal with mechanics that can kill people if they donât heal quickly, both for my kit, my tier and for my Grove Guardians (On M+).
But of course, Iâm not in favor of giving too much power to a âGrove Guardiansâ talent, I had the same opinion regarding âFlourish from S2 with the tierâ.
Since it makes the class overdependent and in the case of the hero tree it is too unnecessary or stupid to take an idea and centralize everything (in addition to putting in some very simple talents).
But anyway, back to the topic.
I donât think Grove Guardians should receive so much hate, itâs just an extra button that helps in critical moments or at least as a support (and during that time you can do mechanics or do dps).
Likewise, I had that same discontent with Flourish (in S2).
So letâs be more open to this new talent, but of course donât make the mistake of basing the entire hero tree on just âGrove Guardiansâ.
Thanks, not sure how I missed that section of it. I appreciate you including the pic!
Posting here on the off chance blizz actually reads any of theseâŠ
Please, please, please DO NOT make our bear/boomkin tree take Lunar Beam. There isnât another Arcane cooldown ability in the bear tree, so I understand why youâd pick that, but most bears have not historically liked that talent or ever wanted to use it.
Please make Eluneâs Chosen grant bears the ability to use Starsurge and Sunfire in bear form, and have the tree provide benefits to us based on our spell casting. (Ex, 1) Starsurge explodes all dots on the target, dealing 200% of the remaining damage instantly. 2) Thrash calls down a Starfire at 20% effeectiveness. 3) Raze is replaced by Starfall.)
Donât force us to take talents we do not want, that we have never optted for, while ignoring how much of our General tree we take that does NOTHING for us.
Use this option to give bears more spells we can cast so that we feel more like full druids even when stuck in bear form and not to force us into using a talent we have no desire for and make our tree feel worse than it already does.
4 Likes
Cenarius might is the biggest problem with this tree, that needs to be reworked, simple as that, itâs awful. Itâs not fun, itâs not interesting remove it and do it better.
I also donât like that they keep doubling down on 3 min cd.
Decouple pulsar and orbital, now you can choose both, slightly reduce the duration like you did for havoc if you have to, but please allow us to choose both orbital and pulsar at the same time.
Questions that you forgot to provide the dude who âinterviewedâ you (specifically for balance):
-Why treants? Why force players to take a talent that hasnât been useful in years if the whole point of these hero trees are to not force players into unwanted playstyles?
-Do these treants get the benefits of our passives?
-How was power/durability of nature allowed to make it onto this tree when it is clear as day that it there would only be 1 of those options chosen?
-Control of the dream is a DOA talent as well, 5 seconds is nowhere near enough time to make it useful for anything other than Fury of Elune, which it doesnât affect. It makes the Treants line up better with our CDs but that means it takes 2 talents in the tree to get there, assuming you take the talent that gives you the 10 sec CDR.
-Protective Growth is useless unless you tied it to a proc that is off the gcd. No one is gonna waste a global for 8% DR.
-Grove Inspiration is as uninspiring as it gets, try again.
-Persistent Enchatments talent; Orbital strike already applies a 20 second stellar flare, will that 20 seconds be added on?
Booming Infusion is legit only useful because it would make Protective growth useful.
-And the big loser: wtf is that capstone? 3% extra damage when you use the ability is so damn unispiring. The capstone is supposed to be something you should look forward to getting, not something you wonât even notice if it is missing.
This whole tree needs to be scrapped and redone by someone with an idea of what Balance players want and need.
The entire eclipse system has been a failure, with this being the first time all xpac when you actually play your eclipses in their intended way. Just make it so one tree lets you be in solar always and the other for lunar.
1 Like
Give him some slack. He only does low keys, balance is kinda terrible when everything dies before your ramp can even finish.
Did you happen to play a Paladin back in vanilla named Redsun?
I would like to give some ideas for talents that could be added to Keeper of the Grove that possibly are more interactive or interesting than what is currently presented:
These ideas are centered around the idea that Balance would be getting Treants back similar to how they were in MoP and WoD, and I think for this hero tree to work this absolutely needs to happen.
-
Treants spread your moonfire to nearby targets when they attack with wrath / Grove Guardians have a chance to spread your rejuvenation to a nearby injured ally when they heal with nourish.
-
Barkskin casts a lesser version of Barkskin on nearby allies.
-
Barkskin pulses nature damage.
-
Treants cast Thorns on nearby enemies, which damages them when they attack or cast spells. Grove Guardians cast thorns on nearby allies, which deal damage to melee attackers and generate extra threat if cast on a tank player.
-
Treants generate astral power when they attack with wrath. Grove guardians generate a small amount of mana when they heal with nourish.
-
Your Treants / Grove Guardians become afflicted with the nightmare, dealing 30% more damage / healing but losing 10% of their health every second.
-
Treants receive damage bonuses from your mastery. Grove Guardians add 1 stack of mastery to your target for 3 seconds when they heal with nourish.
-
Treants and Grove Guardians leave behind an area effect on the ground when they expire, dealing damage to enemies, healing allies, and slowing enemies by 30%.
-
Treants Wrath attacks have a high chance to explode, dealing 50% extra damage in an area. Grove Guardians nourish has a high chance to splash onto a nearby ally for 30% of its healing.
-
Treants and Grove Guardians become infested with pests, casting a lesser adaptive swarm at a nearby enemy or ally when they are summoned and when they expire. Lesser swarm lasts for 4 seconds, jumps twice, and provides an 8% modifier.
-
Treants and Grove Guardians cast mass entanglement when two are summoned within 3 seconds of each other.
-
Treants and Grove Guardians cast a channeled beam of nature at an enemy or ally when two are summoned within 3 seconds, dealing high damage or healing per second for 4 seconds.
-
Your treants / Grove Guardians take 8% of the damage you would take.
-
Spending x amount of astral power / mana makes your next entangling roots or regrowth / starfire instant cast.
-
Treant attacks grant stacking nature damage up to a certain amount, which is added to your next starsurge. Grove Guardian heals grant stacking healing bonus, which is added to your next swiftmend or initial cast of wild growth.
-
Celestial alignment summons a Treant every 10 seconds. Ironbark summons a Grove Guardian when cast.
These ideas are somewhat random and some could be included in choice nodes with each other, but the point is to stay with the keeper of the grove theme which is nature magic, roots, thorns, and trees.
The treants could also amplify wild mushroom, as itâs been a dead talent since forever because itâs not astral damage, just nature damage.
From a resto prospective:
I like the treants personally, and I like the lore/aesthetic theme. My only real critique is that the Emerald Petals feel like an uninspired mechanic that is going to make overhealing on resto go through the roof, and Cenariusâs Might does not seem like it will be fun to actually play in practice, but I can see where it might come in clutch for high damage situations.
Nourish has been dead on arrival for in DF, and this talent tree is making that worse because the druid will have to select Grove Guardians. I concur with this point that was made earlier:
Curious to see what Wildstalker will be. Iâm hopeful for a disc-style healing profile where our cat damage heals allies with HoTs on them.
From Balance perspective, this Hero talent appears to be focused more on AoE/M+ aspects by adding AoE components to the builder part of the rotation. By incorporation Force of Nature into Incarnation/Pulsar window, enhanced AsP generation allows additional spender during the cooldown period. However this seems anti-synergistic with the Dream Burst mechanic which competes for casts during the damage enhancement window. Not so much during Incarnation, but perhaps a bit tight during the Pulsar window.
With the common theme between Balance and Restoration specialization being DoT/HoT, seems like there could be more interaction from the balance side of things in this hero talent tree. Iâd like to see Tree-ents more consistently put up dots, and possibly expand from just Moonfire to include Stellar Flares, or even possibly counter attack or on-death burst with DoT application for the taunting version to give some viability to be used that way. But if this tree will put a lot of power into the Force of Nature, perhaps it might be a good idea to revisit the taunt function to see if the tree-ents can maintain its tank saving ability while staying alive to provides enhancements, especially considering the Capstone of this tree.
Cenariusâ Might, while an interesting (but problematic, as many pointed out) talent, it seems a bit unfocused due to having no interaction with Dream Burst. If nothing else, it should encourage consecutive spamming builders (Wrath/Starfire), which also indirectly encourage dumping Astral Power to allow longer ASP build up time.
Also, as a side comment, I think itâd be interesting to see more talents that enhances both balance and resto abilities regardless of which main spec the druid is in. Treants of the Moon sounds like it would also allow Grove Guardians to cast Moonfire in addition to healing, which is pretty cool. Same thing with Cenariusâ Might, where Balance druidâs Regrowth/Swiftmend gets enhanced healing. The same logic can be applied to the capstone as well, where any kind of tree-ents enhances healing and spell damage.
Jury is out until we can push buttons, but I am intrigued by Treants having some grit.
But I wonder, are CDs & managing rotational buffs/burst going to become a plate of spaghetti? Are you going to get rid of âcancel Starlordâ game-play (I hope so)?
WellâŠ20% more dmg than nothing is still nothing though ^^
Maybe they intend to fix Treeants like they did hunter pets and make them scale with weapon or caster statsâŠ
So I just found this on Wowhead. Itâs an opinion piece on Keeper of the Grove for Balance and I fully agree with it. Iâve been Balance since Vanilla, so Iâve see all iterations of this spec.
My feedback:
Why am I summoning pets? Why do I even have trees? I donât want trees. I avoid trees. Iâm not a pet class, nor do I want to summon pets. Especially as Balance. To me, this is not interesting gameplay-- itâs annoying gameplay.
This is just my perspective and the authorâs:
1 Like
Serious question: Why does Treants even exist for balance anymore? Itâs felt incredibly out of place with the spec thematically ever since the update in Legion.
1 Like
No, no more dots.
Dots are a handicapped mechanic that sucks in all current formats of modern encounter designs. Theyâre inflexible, they involve ramp up in a meta where everyone has massive aoe and ST burst.
No more DoT expansion for balance. Itâs already bad enough on affliction warlocks.
1 Like
Well the trees are basically a DoT effect. So when they are forcing that playstyle its in reality a 3rd Dot, and if the trees are going to do any meaningful damage the damage on the builders and spenders will go down.
Everything nobody asked forâŠmore maintenance and less impactful abilities ^^