sorry forgot to clarify edited my post.
Bosses are timed too, should we remove enrage to accomodate your needs?
no, bosses can still have enrage timers. preferably soft enrage timers that punish mistakes but not cause the boss to instantly one shot the entire group.
not everything needs a timer.
do you want raids to have a timer?
You still get a 15 in the Tuesday vault and trust me nobody want to spend 2 hours in your non timed +15.
Ha ha ha okay i see what you are pushing for.
Nah, let folks who have the timer added to the difficulty of the dungeon get better gear than folks who choose the easier path.
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They do have timers, like you just pointed. The m+ timers are there to make sure you don’t get ahead of yourself and come scream that stuff is too hard. Remove the timer and at some point it just becomes degenerate gameplay of waiting for lust to overpower a challenge that you’re otherwise unable to overcome.
Beside, as many said, you can completely ignore the timer. Just go your own pace.
In no world should easier content award the same level of gear as harder content.
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Would you also want LFR to give 489 ilvl and 496 ilvl gear as well?
Rewards should be based on difficulty otherwise it destroys the entire M+ system. You can easily gear characters now to 483 ilvl by doing keys as low as 8 and getting heroic level gear in the vault each week to upgrade to ilvl 483.
There needs to be a carrot and a stick to motivate players. Getting the same reward for doing a timed M+20 as someone who does it with no timer and 75 deaths throughout the dungeon doesn’t necessarily scream fun gameplay for anyone in the group.
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I’m all for a toggle, but no, the whole shtick of mplus is that you try to master your spec and class so we’ll that you can handle an onslaught of combat.
That should reward more powerful loot. Just like how mythic raiding offers the best loot since it’s the hardest content.
So let there be a toggle, and loot, but generally speaking challenge should determine the reward level.
I’d also be okay if the gear from timed runs are maybe only a few ilvels higher. Kind of like I’m destiny 2 eventually the best gear is only 1 or 2 points above the next most accessible contents rewards.
Kinda, yeah. Raiding can be an insane slog. If I knew win or lose I’d be out of there in 2 hours I’d jump all over that.
there is always two pieces of loot… there is no reduction of loot for depleting a key anymore.
the problem with removing timers is that it makes getting vault rewards too easy.
if keys had a “no-timer” option, then those keys should not give loot at the end of the dungeon and they should not count towards great vault rewards.
the “no-timer” keys would specifically be for learning purposes and practicing pulls/boss fights at the appropriate level.
i think it would be good to have a practice option:
you put in your key and it gives you two options and you check one - timed run for rewards or practice run (not-timed) with no rewards.
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Raids do have timers. Every boss has an enrage timer and multiple fights have effective timers due to the nature of their mechanics.
A M+ dungeon is single encounter with rewards at the end in the same way a single raid boss is.
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And I want the International Olympic Committee to send me a gold medal for the marathon even if it takes me 8 hours to finish. But, you know, the world doesn’t work like that. Nor should it.
Mythic+ kind of already broke this.
You mean comparing M+ to Raid? That’s a fair point.
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Would you also want LFR to give 489 ilvl and 496 ilvl gear as well?
looking at the blog post, I see 483 gear is going to drop from Mythic +20 and up content.
So no, I would not want 483 or higher item level gear to be obtainable from LFR, except as a very rare titanforged loot drop.
And I want the International Olympic Committee to send me a gold medal for the marathon even if it takes me 8 hours to finish. But, you know, the world doesn’t work like that. Nor should it.
that’s not a fair comparison and you know it
the problem with removing timers is that it makes getting vault rewards too easy
the game should be easier. blizzard should want to make the game easier so it can attract more players. blizzard is already doing this, players will be able to get heroic raid quality rewards from delves. I don’t see what the big deal is.
also ‘easy’ is a relative term. only 15% of players have keystone master for season 3. I would like to see that number be more like 50%
If you don’t like something, then why do it? “I don’t like milk, but don’t tell me not to drink it!”
It’s great that there’s four other dungeon difficulties that don’t have timers then!
Sorry that the game doesn’t give out participation trophies. Looking For Raid and Follower Dungeons are over there.
Why should yours?
I’ll grant that it’s hyperbole, but it’s still a direct analogy of what you’re proposing.
You want to remove the obstacles to the best rewards and give everyone who crosses the finish line the same prize. Again, that’s not how the world works.
If timed runs are not your bag, that’s fine. I’m not that big a fan of the M+ system myself and I think that on the whole it has been a net loss for the game in spite of its popularity. But if they are going to put timers on runs then there needs to be an incentive for trying to beat said timer and improve your play. Otherwise what’s the point?
Failing a timer is not nearly as punishing as it could be. You still get loot, you still unlock vault slots, you still get credit for completion of the dungeon for weekly quests, etc. I run M+'s all the time with a group of players who don’t care if we hit the timer. If we do, great, but if we don’t we still have fun together. We stick in the 11-14 range and we’re fine with that.
The point is you absolutely can already do exactly what you are asking for and I know because I do it all the time and I have fun doing it. What I don’t do is demand the top rewards and titles even though I’ve chosen to ignore a criterion for those rewards that I happen to dislike. Again, that ain’t how the world works. Nor should it. If you want Aspect crests and KSM and whatever, then adhere to the rules for getting those rewards or accept that you will never get them.
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is your theory that one of the main obstacles to attracting more players is the difficulty of endgame content?
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I’m a big proponent of restructuring the M+ system away from a timer as I think it’s the wrong type of “challenge” but that being said it’s nonsensical to argue we should just be able to choose having a timer or not.
Players take the path of least resistance and the vast majority will turn off the timer if there is no benefit to having it on.
I’ll give you this much: at least you’re saying it out loud. Most folks who think they’re entitled to the best gear in the game because they successfully convert oxygen to carbon dioxide usually think up some “That’s not what I’m saying!” nonsense to cover it. You just wear it on your lapel. Bravo.
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