I don’t get high until at least 5pm. The game is not designed or balanced around leveling and world quests. You have other specs to play that are way more suitable for enjoyment in those areas if the loss of pet tank makes it too hard for you.
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Then tell Blizzard to stop making and promoting solo content.
Nah. I want to stay MM. How about you try a petless class if you don’t like having to deal with a pet.
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I’m gonna play marks regardless because I actually like it
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So MM, as always, has had a unique pet relationship, therefore Rankin’s earlier claim that pets are a unifying aspect of Hunter’s identity is true, and your earlier rejection was just you being needlessly argumentative.
Previously, the pet was useful for specific scenarios or providing utility, while not linking to their toolkit. Now, it’s a forced choice that is linked to their kit, but provides no direct interactivity or player choice.
Delves matter, and Lone Wolf didn’t cause problems. Open world content matters (like Siren Isles), and Lone Wolf didn’t cause problems there either. Normals and Heroics also don’t have issue with Lone Wolf, and they also matter.
If they don’t matter, then the content could easily be removed entirely from the game right with no impact, right?
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Yeah, you like it so much you want the pet option completely ripped out so no other MM Hunters can keep using their pets.
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Now that the PTR is actually up, who has tried these changes?
I intend to if only to quiet people who might say, “You don’t know you don’t like it, you haven’t tried it!”
Nah, I understand that what i want or don’t want has no bearing on how the game is actually gonna work. I’m fine with it happening because it makes the spec better in the long run.
This has been explained ad nauseum. You lost the utility that nobody else had to give up to do the damage you were supposed to do. You lose the damage that you’re supposed to do in order to have the utility that you’re supposed to have. It was never a good design.
How do mages accomplish delves without pets?
Casual content that you can accomplish with random talents and wrong gear exists so that there are things to do in the game outside of ranked or competitive content. There is also competitive content that requires you to play specs at a high level to accomplish. One of these game modes makes a lot more sense to design the game around than the other.
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They can “make the spec better” without removing the pet. They’ve changed us before without having to remove the pet, they can do so again.
Different classes have different toolkits. And they’re not doing anything remotely close to replacing losing our pet. They’re just ripping it out and hoping MM Hunters stick to group content.
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I’ve spent a bit testing out the new changes. ST feels much better in my opinion since we will be weaving in more abilities between our aimed shots. AoE is kind of the same? There’s a bit more focus on explosive shot that stands out, but the gameplay hasn’t changed all that much on that front
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You can design and balance the game around competitive content, while also including suboptimal options that enable player choice. The suboptimal options are by definition not competitive, so there is little of any reason we can’t have both.
To be clear, I’m not saying “let me choose 11.0.7 MM with a pet or 11.1 MM with the eagle by choosing a talent”, because that’s ridiculous. I’m saying “11.1 MM does not need to delete pets, it can just make the pet a DPS loss and accomplish all the same goals.”
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I have. I don’t think the animation is currently triggering for the dumb bird properly, especially given their stated “this is meant to be noticeable and impactful” intent with future customization options.
In that content, my pet made up for any losses typically.
Different toolkits, different methods.
Casual content makes up a far larger portion of the gameplay, I agree it should be designed around!
Ranked or competitive content is only enjoyed by a fraction of the player base. If there is content that shouldn’t matter, its that and the game would be see less of an impact than if it was only ranked and competitive content.
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Thanks for being reasonable.
If I understand what I think you’re trying to say correctly, this is the “leave everything in the direction of the rework the same, but let marks summon regular pet at a loss for xyz use” suggestion.
I had this discussion on discord last night, and here’s why I think that really won’t work. You’ve got a pet that you can summon as BM or SV that gives you pet family passives, lust, MC/petsac/ms, etc. You swap to marks, and that same pet no longer does any of that stuff, and you are spending talent points making your other pseudo pet give you the same buffs that the regular pet did for the other specs without spending any talent points. I.e., the least pet-centric spec is the only one that has to spend spec tree talent points to make its pet do basic stuff.
I understand that this feels like a really easy solution up front, but you have to ignore a lot of incongruency for it to make sense. If you’re gonna do that, the pet needs to retain its pet family buffs, ms, lust, etc. and they need to do something else with that talent in the marks tree. You’re then right back where we started with the utility vs damage choice that nobody else has to make.
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I’m not seeing a problem. Is this a gameplay concern? Or an “MM is gonna grumble that they have to spend an extra talent point?” concern?
For BM/SV, you spec Intimidation, and your pet stuns the enemy. For MM, you spec Intimidation, and you stun the enemy (with an eagle-shaped spell effect). Why would this be different if MM has a pet out doing auto attacks for a pittance of damage?
Same with RoS. The “sacrifice” for MM is that you don’t get procs while the buff is out. That doesn’t need to change based on whether you have a pet.
If this is about the spec abilities, just disable Command Pet for MM and make the passives mutually exclusive with the Cunning/Tenacious talent (calling a pet dispels the talent passive of you have it and grants the pet passive). MM is still losing access to Fortitude of the Bear in that scenario, but that’s happening in the current PTR changes anyway.
Cunning/Tenacious is directly above Trueshot so you’re going to take it regardless. It’s part of the intended talent budget for the spec. Pets have nothing to do with that.
There are no more pet family buffs. MS is moving to the Hunter via Aimed Shot, and it doesn’t stack. Other than that, pets have a few defensives, a self dispel (dispels and effect on the pet only, not an effect on the Hunter), and a snare that doesn’t stack with Concussive Shot.
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The problem is that it’s not congruent. I spec bm or sv, and wilson gives me pathfinding, petsac, master’s call, and puts ms on targets. I spec marks and wilson forgets how to do all of that stuff, and I have to spend a talent point making my eagle do the basic things that wilson does for me in the other specs.
This is a cop out. How is losing the ability to call your pet at level 13 any less incongruent? Call Pet is literally just whistling.
At that level, you don’t even have most of the utility available, so you’re losing a pocket tank and 8% speed to get an occasional proc for 10% more Aimed Shot damage.
Assuming you put your level 12 talent point into Precise Shots, that is, otherwise you get…nothing.
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It’s not. I agree. Marks should probably just get the eagle from the beginning.
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But it can’t. Because you don’t start as a level 1 MM Hunter. You start as a level 1 Hunter, and you tame a pet before you can choose a spec.
It is impossible to have pets as a class feature, disable pets for MM only, give MM a different pseudo-pet, and maintain a congruent through-line.
If you kept the ability to Call Pet, then you aren’t forgetting anything at any point, you’re just choosing to rely on your bow and your eagle rather than your pet.
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I agree that that is a thematic issue that something needs to be done about. Again I also don’t think that the (spec specific) leveling process is the most critical aspect of mid-expansion rework triage.
It doesn’t tank. It doesn’t keep mobs at range, allowing me to actually feel like a marksman. Instead i now have mobs running right up and attacking me. So I’m still shooting but doing it in melee range.
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Yes, the MM Hunter fantasy is now either “point blank shooting” or “running around like a chipmunk on crack”. Very ranger. Much sniper.
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