Feedback: Hunters

[Lunadari-frostwolf]

I have played Hunter in all its different specs since Vanilla WoW back in 04. I played Survival towards the end of BC and Cata and loved it until they changed it because it felt off. They’ve since reworked it a TON and it feels better now but it isnt my thing so i’ve been playing MM since MoP and on and off before that. I didn’t mind MoP but I was an impatient kick back then and didnt understand the sniper training part. I liked Marked Shot in Legion but ultimately felglt like the broke the class then and stopped playing it then came back after Legion and played it ever since.

I have a wolf and a bear and I rip aggro off them near instantly the second I hit trueshot and even before that. Aimed Sbot hits and plater has me and my pet battling for aggro until Trueshot gets used and then the pet loses for the rest of the fight

[Lunadari-frostwolf]

Bottom line is that there are a lot of players who have wanted MM to actjally get a class fantasy update that felt true to what it was meant to look and feel like and everytime it comes and goes we lose it because people are attached to their pets but MM hasnt used a pet effectively for the past few expansions. This is a very cool and interesting idea to mix in the compabion to the marksmanship feel and it should absolutely stay, I beg it to stay. However I do want them to let all of the people who do not want the eagle to still be able to summon their best friends but have them lose the bonuses that the eagle provides

[Syegfryed-tol-barad (Syegfryed)]

@Lunadari-frostwolf

Sir, we had that and its called Lone Wolf and it was complete garbage. Instead, how about we keep the eagle and you get to use whatever pet you want but you dont get the benefits of the eagle? Sound fun?

How about you go play another spec or class if you think Lone wolf is garbage? Sounds fun? no, then no

[Blockzilla-frostmourne]

I think MM losing a pet is a fantastic idea and really buys into the class fantasy if you want pets play BM I say great work blizz

[Lunadari-frostwolf]

The probkem with this attitude is that you’re alright forcing everyone to do what you want to do but when others want something else suddebly it’s unfair. Guess what? It’s been unfair for us who dont want MM with a pet and woukd rather it be played as described, a long range heavy hitter sharpshooter who takes down enemies from afar, a monkey at my side or a spider or a wolf doesnt do me jack all in the grand scheme of it and i’d rather have that design changed or at least mitigated to where we dont have to take the pet AND we move closer into the sniper fantasy. What you want is to stand completely still and let everyone else get the cool fantasy upgrades while all of us playing MM hoping we get it next finally get it and then it’s a bunch of RP’ers from Moonguard that come out and say “but mahhhh favorite pets!” I have special pets too, I just don’t use them in MM because it does not help me to have it when I can fire a single aimed shot and negate what a pet does

[Azzy-amanthul (Azzy)]

What if… the eagle was just cosmetic and could be interchangeable with say… a tamed pet?

[Lunadari-frostwolf]

How about you go play another spec where you get to keep your pet? Sounds fun? No? Good.

[Syegfryed-tol-barad (Syegfryed)]

@Kaivax

Likely the most substantial change to Marksmanship is a reimagining of the specialization’s fantasy and how it interacts with pets.

So you want to re-imagine how it interact with pets…

@Kaivax

Hunters are in large part defined by their pets and their greater relationship with the natural world of Azeroth and beyond.

Good, you understand this very basic thing…

@Kaivax

Marksmanship Hunter stood in somewhat stark defiance of that for much of its existence, as it was often more than willing to abandon pet access in exchange for extra throughput from Lone Wolf.

Yeah, SOMETIMES they do that, its an option available for determinated content, ok

@Kaivax

Over World of Warcraft’s history, this talent was iterated, changed, and grew to be a core part of Marksmanship’s identity.

Ok, ONE core part of its identity, but you still realize markmanship IS a hunter and hunters are LARGELY defined by their pets, like you pointed earlier.

@Kaivax

There were many fantasy and gameplay issues with Lone Wolf.

Literally no fantasy issue, gameplay issue? sure.

@Kaivax

Having to summon your pet and lose Lone Wolf to access that utility as Marksmanship often had legitimate experiential and throughput consequences.

Indeed, so you are going to let us keep the abilities while we have lone wolf to fix the issue?

@Kaivax

In Undermine(d), Marksmanship Hunters are losing access to “traditional” pets, like Survival and Beast Mastery have, and are instead permanently joined in battle by an Eagle.

Seriouslly, WHO THE HELL though this was a good idea? i walk trough your entire post, HOW THIS was the fix???!?

Literally removing THE OPTION, and giving a lame eagle? who cares about an eagle? me not thats for sure.

At the same time you pissed off the people who like their pet and wanted to use then, and you pissed off the people who DIDNT WANT THE PET by making an annoying fake bird pet

How can you think about the issue and chose the literally worst option of both worlds when you could have just baked Bloodlust into lone wolf???

Just revert this change and bake the ability to lone wolf, its simple.

@Blockzilla-frostmourne

I think MM losing a pet is a fantastic idea and really buys into the class fantasy if you want pets play BM I say great work blizz

Counterpoint: i think its moronic idea and really screws the class fantasy, if you dont want a pet go play another class.

@Lunadari-frostwolf

How about you go play another spec where you get to keep your pet? Sounds fun? No? Good.

no, go play another class and let MM pets alone, you already have an option to go without one, stop trying to ruin the game for other people

[Lunadari-frostwolf]

I don’t hate this idea at all and have said that’s perfectly fine, make it a glyph, I don’t care. But the issue that has been arising has nothing to do with any of the new talens, its just the contingency point of takong away tamed pets which is 1, albeit a large one, change from the many and the many changes look pretty good considering what we had in the past and i’d rather see this iteration make it to live and everyone still get their pets but asking for “no changes cause I want my pet” is the same thing as me saying “give me changes, ban pets.” It offers no middle ground for a conversation to be had at all and then we just butt heads until someone stops responding which was not the point of this forum post. It was to give feedback on ALL aspects of it not just one and i’ve made it a point to talk about the eagle and what it brings to the table, along with what hunters lose when the eagle gets implemented and people lose their tamed animals

[Lunadari-frostwolf]

Oh so it’s okay for you to tell me to play something else but when I tell you to do it it’s kick rocks? Sounds like you don’t actually have an argumentative case and are just crybabying in a corner cause it’s your way or no way.

Edit: a Marksman doesn’t require a pet at all so if I had it my way there’ be zero pets invokved because whether you like it or not, player agency for Hunter is you shooting a ranged weapon and Marksmanship is the class that operates under the fantasy of prioritizing the ranged weapon LONG over the pet in every way. Also, Rogue lost Combat spec to be moronic Outlaw spec thats a roll the dice simulator and tons of people loved it and forced others off of it but guess what, that’s called class fantasy that got implemented. It happens, deal with it. Hunters had pets, yes, and MM has moved away from pets for a VERY long time and it’s time that they had some chsngss that were not pet focused and this gives it to them while ALSO maintaining a PET so this is like arguing the semantics of peeling an apple with a peeler versus a knife, the end result is you are STILL a marksmanship hunter and that class fantasy MUST exist and right now it has none. Its just you confused about your animals that you dont summon for no reason and to make it better and solidify that fantasy they came up with the spotting eagle, which by the way, snipers have spotters who relay information and target marks back to the one doing the shooting. Eagle makes sense for it and should stay and just let people choose what pet that they want

[Azzy-amanthul (Azzy)]

Oh im not against changes (not all of them anyway)
but pets are class defining for hunters, they are what make us different. Removing the pet for MM because its inconvenient for blizzard who have designed themselves into a corner isn’t a good solution because it does away with what has been sold to the player… in many instances years after the fact.

It’s like selling someone a four-wheel drive and then doing the old switcharoo and telling them it’s only 2WD … and its a prius. They’re bound to be disappointed.

[Syegfryed-tol-barad (Syegfryed)]

@Lunadari-frostwolf

Oh so it’s okay for you to tell me to play something else but when I tell you to do it it’s kick rocks?

Are you blind? thats literally what everyone has being doing about us, telling us to play BM and shut up

Im doing the opposite now and i dont care if i hurt the feeling of M+ players.

@Lunadari-frostwolf

like you don’t actually habe an argumentative

There is no argument to have, they need to revert this moronic idea and fix Lone wolf in another way.

There is no compromise to me losing my pet for some dumb reason or their inability to fix their game.

[Lunadari-frostwolf]

Warlocks have pets, Shamans summon elemental pets, pets do not make hunters unique, even DKs have pets. They made hunters unique in rhe PAST but we don’t live there anymore, we moved forward. Now your pet functionally is the same as every other pet and if you want more functionality from your animal you play BM or Survival (mostly BM tho for obvious reasons).

I’m not saying trash the pet, i’m saying let thr change happen but let people pick whatever pet that they want

[Azzy-amanthul (Azzy)]

Counterpoint.

No other class picks and tames and names their pet - forming attachment, or a bond if you will.

I dont find it surprising that people are pissed about the concept of not bringing fluffy with them into the next patch.

[Feedbacks-moon-guard]

I don’t play MM but i like the changes. Best solution for MM pet is to have pets without specs or special abilities and have just Growl, Dash, Pet Basic Attack alongside the new bird just incase anyone wants their pet to tank, taunt or misdirect on it. let the eagle do the utility and damage(Assuming its not Killable CCable and has no delay) I play survival and I rely heavily on my pet to do damage in TWW unlike DF the amount of times i find my pet not responsive or bug out makes me want to pull my hairs out Hunters need a pet blink or a function like that sooner or later

Having to pet swap/summon for a Defensive, BL or Freedom is not good when almost any other class with a real raid buff can do the thing we do without a punishment its lame it has to start somewhere

[Lunadari-frostwolf]

Yeah and there’s been no compromise for me wanting a sniper class thats been advertised as one but it feels like a half baked BM hunter with less skills and more annoying nuances so I have played ebery other class and enjoyed them for what they are but I still want MM to have a Sharpshooter class fantasy and a pet doesnt fit in that, but a decent halfway point is to have the eagle and then just glyph it to have the appearance of whatever you want it to be.

And as far as I am concerned, your attitude towards the " I don’t care i’ll make the M+ players cry" thing can be easily bounced back by saying none of us care what the solo players who want the game on easy cheesy mode want but we don’t bring that up first, it’s always you guys that do. All I wanted was a spec that played and felt like a sharpshooter and now that it’s somewhat happening, people are mad that their pet is going away and I feel for them but I don’t particularly care because I’ve had to deal with the “sharpshooter” class just being watered down and weaker BM in the class fantasy department.

So, bottom line, you can throw whatever tantrum you want but as long as you resort to calling people names and belittling things because “not muh way”, your argument means less than dirt

[Syegfryed-tol-barad (Syegfryed)]

@Lunadari-frostwolf

Yeah and there’s been no compromise for me wanting a sniper class thats been advertised

You are lying, there was compromise and it was MM with lone wolf.

@Lunadari-frostwolf

thing can be easily bounced back by saying none of us care what the solo players who want the game on easy cheesy mode want but we don’t bring that up first, it’s always you guys that do.

Again, are you blind? this is actually what is happening, im tipping the scales.

@Lunadari-frostwolf

All I wanted was a spec that played and felt like a sharpshooter and now that it’s somewhat happening,

It already was a thing with lone wolf, what are you talking about.

@Lunadari-frostwolf

you resort to calling people names

What name did i call you?

[Lunadari-frostwolf]

Counter-counterpoint, theres two specs, one ranged and one melee, that let you do that anyway. Them double downing on the MM class fantasy at the cost of a pet that is STILL there for other specs is a better approach than “Beast Mastery is the hunter class where you get to tame exotic pets to fight for you!” And then “Marksmanship is about placing well aimed shots and master accuracy to take down targets!” And then you pull out a wolf and go “alright so what do you do again?” And then it folds cause the mob slapped in 5 times and it folded and it didnt do anything. Its a remnant of an old class that doesnt exist and has been moved to specific specializations, just like every other class in the game has. Ret Paladins are Holy Warriors, Tank Paladins use the Light to defend their allies and Holy uses the Light to heal and restore their allies. They do 3 different things in 3 different directions. Hunter has 3 specs that all do the same thing but their playstyle is different so the change HAS to be more direct. You have melee pet, ranged pet user, and then just Ranged user because thats the obvious go to. The difference is that it took ages for them to get around to it and now pets are seen as a staple but any MM player that actually does end game content knows that you lose the pet anyway so why have it? Just give me talents that make me feel like a sniper and i’m haply but the eagle seems like a dope way to mesh hunter and sniper together

[Azzy-amanthul (Azzy)]

I more or less agree with what youre saying, but. And its a big but.

There are other types of content in the game that aren’t raids. And the pet is really REALLY useful for that type of content.
Quests? Yup. Delves? Yup Soloing old raid content? Big yup.

And the argument thus far (not necessarily from you but broadly) has been BUT YOU HAVE BM!

And to that I say, NUTS.

They are 2 different types of gameplay.

MM as it stands is slower paced, I find it more relaxing. With a single pet.

BM is an ADHD mess of button spamming and a zoo full of random pets appearing on your screen to do stuff.

I prefer MM - it handles like the hunter of old (yes i am old)

In a game that so frequently claims to be about player choice, and customisation and class fantasy… forcing a choice is bullsh*t.

They could literally implement all the changes. slap heroism in as its own spell and allow pets to be optional. Job done. But no, theyre removing pets because ?!?! I dunno, haven’t seen a good reason yet.

[Lunadari-frostwolf]

I am on a phone so its harder to address each point but 1) you keep referring to me as blind when clearly I am not. There’s no reason for that, ever. 2) Lone Wolf was an old school fix for an old school problem that has been exascerbated drastically over the years. You giving us lust is wonderful, and I appreciate that, but it does not FEEL like we are playong sharpshooters as long as a part of the clas sis snapped away from us because of Lone Wolf. These changes GIVE US SOMETHING MORE than Lone Wolf ever did and fixes the way the class feels in nearly every way, the issue is that people want their pets still so I say fine, keep them but don’t relegate me to some boring way to play Hunter when it clearly says Sharpshooter and then they come along and give us better options and it gets turned down because you want your pet that has absolutely ZERO to do woth how your character shoots your bow or gun. Your PETS are designed to be FAR more interactive in the other two specs and this ONE is meant to be devoid of a pet and to rely on your own skills as a master sniper to take down your foes. A Spotting Eagle that marks targets actually makes more sense than any other pet does and the talents that come with it are mostly solid choices.

The bottom line isnt the talents, it’s the feeling of losing your pets to class fantssy but you’ve conveniently missed the part where Marksmanship has been pushing us away from pets for a LONG time in favor of a lone wolf playstyle. It’s time to do like everyone else did when their classes got respecced and refantasized into what they are now, find what fits yours closest and go with it. I did it for 19 years, now it’s your turn.