Does this also apply to SV and BM? (The double-dipping part.)
No BM and SV don’t have the eagle abilities.
My bad, I wasn’t clear. I’m talking about the speccing for tenacity or cunning. Tav said pets who were originally tenacity and got specced to cunning still has access to the tenacity passive, and vice versa.
This is what I’m asking about, regarding SV and BM.
EDIT: wait, Tav changed his post. He used to say that the pets retained access to passives, not actives.
MM gets a talent that gives them access to cunning/tenacity pet abilities. MM can now also call a pet, so they can get the tenacity ability from the talent and then call a cunning pet and get the cunning pet ability as well. None of these things affect SV/BM at all.
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No, they don’t have the cunning/tenacious talents on their tree.
Its actually super buggy looking now, too. The buffs from the talents don’t show up on your buff bar but they are there. (speed + health are things you can verify). The buff from whatever pet you chose shows up and is active at the same time as your spec talent choice. You can stack two pathfinding buffs, or you can get pathfinding from the talent and fortitude from tenacity pet. Or you can use cunning pet and take the tenacity talent. Using command pet with tenacity talented and a cunning pet gives you master’s call. However, if you have a tenacity pet and the cunning talent, you can’t use command pet or master’s call at all.
Pets are also still applying mortal wounds and other pet specials to targets. Meaning you now have two MS effects that don’t stack but that you can apply to multiple targets at once.
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Eek, that certainly sounds like a gnarly mess.
EDIT: people, I know BM and SV doesn’t have the talent for tenacity/cunning abilities like MM, but they now can respec pets too.
THAT is why I’m curious. Is respeccing also borked for them?
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Oh you mean changing the specs of the pets themselves. That doesn’t have anything to do with this interaction. I haven’t tested changing the actual pet specs yet. Just swapping between use of pets in different families while using the two options of passive choices.
Honestly all of this would make a lot more sense if the call pet button was a choice against cunning and tenacious. You get to pick a pet family passive, or use a pet that already has pet family passives. Make its output so insignificant that it doesn’t make a difference which option you choose.
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Yes. My apologies that I wasn’t clearer. I’ve been sick for days and medicine makes me… less focused.
But yes, that’s what I mean. I wonder if there’s issues in that too. I wonder if — IF those issues exist — they’re related to the issues that MM is facing with the bugs.
Then again, I’m not knowledgeable in coding. 
Ah okay so comparable gear. Sorry for the confusion.
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Another bug:
If you have unbreakable bond talented as well as cunning but dismiss your pet, you can no longer cast master’s call. Master’s call is supposed to be a function of that talent, and it’s supposed to come from your eagle (which is not showing up any more) instead of the regular pet.
It seems like now that I’ve taken the pet talent, I can no longer spec out of it and use master’s call. I didn’t test master’s call with no pet and imp. mark first, so it could also just be bugged to only work if you took the pet talent now.
Edit:
I can’t use master’s call from pets as BM or SV now, either.
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Multi Shot baseline for Beast Mastery as well, not just Marksmanship please.
Multi Shot baseline for Beast Mastery as well, not just Marksmanship please.
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The pet still does dps, so all the petless crowd would still feel that they need to take Unbreakable Bond.
Maybe this all highlights a problem of the entire talent system- it doesn’t readily account for having different utility in different specs- OR- doesn’t handle the same utility in radically different specs.
I’m starting to think that Pet/Petless would do better as a baseline ability.
Call it Lone Wolf/Unbreakable Bond, a single button that toggles between them.
Lone Wolf is tuned higher (as current), dismisses your pet, removes pet functionality, and adds all utility to the hunter (Roar of Sacrifice, Intimidate, Lust, etc). You inherit your dismissed pet’s spec bonuses (Tenacity, etc). Call Pet becomes context dependent and only swaps your dismissed pet, ergo your pet spec bonuses, when LW is active (to avoid having to toggle, call pet, toggle).
Unbreakable Bond retains everything pet-based, abilities and utility buttons, with more damage, health, and agro generation for your pet. Tuned lower than Lone Wolf, as current.
Utility is dependent on your toggle state.
Spotter’s Mark still procs off Precise Shots, but uses your pet as the vector, whether active (your cheetah leaps/growls at the target) or dismissed (your bat strikes from the shadows). A glyph replaces the pet animation while in Lone Wolf.
The Marksman tree can now be constructed and balanced without any concern with the pet state.
The Class tree and abilities only have to concern themselves with two variations, based on LW/UB state.
Most everyone should be happy.
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The weathering fire change to Call of the Wild is a great change, but now you’re super GCD bloated during the cool down cause you’re getting cdr on kill command and barbed as well as a Deathblow proc every 4 seconds. You should return Weathering Fire back to the auto fire of Deathblow. WF just makes the specs feel super bloated during cds
Literally put it on the choice node with tenacious and cunning. Completely untie damage scaling from your abilities/spotters mark and make this the place you get extra auto shot damage or something. You either pick a pet that has pet family abilities or you pick one of the petless options based on the utility you want. We’ve already reinvoked the same problems that lone wolf had, so at this point just make the whole thing less convoluted.
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You’re saying we should make a three-way choice node?
And have utility nodes in a spec tree?
All of the choices are currently in the spec tree just not against each other. Pick tenacious or cunning and get some extra auto shot damage equivalent to what a pet does + the command pet and passives from that family. Or get call pet and call a pet that gives family passives and command pet abilities.
Cunning and Tenacious are currently a choice node pitted against one another. Your suggestion somehow combines them into one talent, or suggests a three-way choice node.
Marksmanship should have all pet utility disabled, permanently. It should never be a choice.
If swapping pet specs as a talent is too clunky, make the eagle family talent give you two stances you can swap between with a short cast time or something. But don’t go back on fixing the utility issue that has plagued the spec for years.
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Yes, three way choice node. Whats the issue?
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There’s no precedent. Blizzard won’t put in the effort to implement a three-way node for a single talent node.
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