I really like a lot of the direction for the Marks changes. However, I still think there is one big, glaring problem with the spec: Multi-target situations.
Trick Shots still just feels bad to use in a lot of situations. It feels bad when you only have two targets, but it also just feels bad when you have three targets, but one of the three targets is just barely out of range of the multi-shot or is line-of-sighted for a second. This is often something so hard to determine and missing out on a trick shots proc because of something like this feels like a double penalty: You’re penalized by not getting any AoE and you’re often penalized by doing less damage on the targets you do hit because you used multi-shot instead of sticking to your single target rotation.
I would much rather just have Trick Shots work like multi-shot does for BM where you just always get the AoE effect when you cast multi-shot.
This would also negate the need for Aspect of the Hydra, which I don’t feel is a good fix. It will technically solve two target raid encounters, but it will still leave Marks feeling bad in any dungeon or open world scenario where you have two targets at some point.
6 Likes
Sorry, you are right. Since I wanted a pet less hunter to be possible, I’m obviously not smart enough to understand the class I’ve played for 20 years.
Is the tier set even good enough to bother to stack haste? At 17% haste, the spec feels slow to me on PTR.
I have a feeling (someone need to actually sim) that Crit and Mastery will be way more important than Haste.
1 Like
I’m hoping so but the current state of the talent tree and spec on PTR right now, it’s going to be a heavy dependency on Haste.
I’m not sure, but it feels the mechanics are meant to devalue Haste. The slower autoattack, more emphasis on weaving stuff between Aimed Shots, both autoattack and Aimed Shots being sped up by talents/buffs rather than haste.
But then contrast on how much stuff values Crit. A Hunter talent that enhances Crit benefit, a MM talent that enhances Crit damage based on Crit chance, True Shot giving a big Crit damage bonus.
It feels the spec is supposed to be slow, speeding up on talents and buffs, and causing huge crits.
Taking Improved Streamline and weaving Streamline bonuses well makes more for the spec than stacking Haste.
1 Like
its absolutely insane how pet vs petless conversations are still going on. like guys.
yes but it still falls on the player base to make sure feedback is easy to read and easy to find.
3 Likes
What about retaining Barrage alongside Misdirection + Pet so pull mass mobs and group up to AOE down quickly?
Since Rapid Fire and Barrage are both Channeling abilities, it would make sense to sacrifice a Rapid Fire enhancing talent with the choice of Barrage.
So perhaps add Barrage back in as a choice node with one of the following talents…
- In the Rhythm
- Surging Shots
- No Scope
There’s little to test until the new PTR goes live, which should be tomorrow.
there is alot to test, non of you actually posted how new mm hunter works so far. it was pet central. the only people posting about mm are again being drowned out by delve talk and pet stuff despite a solution being applied.
if theres nothing to say then dont say anything at all maybe so that poor dude doesnt have to repost his feedback about trueshot over and over again
We did, plenty. We just didn’t comment on the things you felt were important. I’ve already stated I’ll be giving it a shot once again, when the new PTR version goes live, so i can see how pet and petless MM works.
That PTR build is not yet out, AFIAK. It should be live tomorrow.
He’s not some ‘poor dude’, and his feedback is just as noted as anyone else. Repeating it, again and again, doesn’t change that things will be refresh tomorrow and a new round of testing can begin.
1 Like
I feel that Crit/Mastery will be the go to for PvE and Mastery/Vers still for PvP. A crap ton of haste makes it feel so much smoother, but I think they are going for the slow nuke approach with the rework.
3 Likes
idk what kind of 4 year old mentality this is, but like stop it? youd think for someone whos all about rping you would know basic stuff about curtsy and online Etiquette. especially for a mmorpg where your not playing by yourself but with thousands of people. completely burying peoples feedback only makes people think you and the otehrs doing it are jerks
bows
There, I’ve curtsied.
And yes, the fastest way to derail a conversation is to tell someone to shut up and they’re wrong. 
I am not the one who has stated the equivalent, of “I’ll tell on you to my friend at Blizzard” which, I’m pretty sure is a violation of the Code of Conduct if not the forums, for the employee in question if true.
As stated, I’ll be providing updated feedback once the new version of the PTR goes live.
8 Likes
reposting a updated bug list ccause we need some fixes next ptr patch
mm hunter
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Pets will both have their own seperate buff for the Tauren racial "Brawn" and the Dwarf racial "Might of the Mountain",and inherit the Crit Damage / Healing from the player, making them benefit twice from the effect
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The following spells benefit from Unnatural Causes twice or more,Black Arrow primary damage (x2, shouldn't benefit at all), Black Arrow DoT (x3), Volley (x2), AMoC (x2)
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Razor Fragments does not gain an additional 5% benefit from Unnatural Causes in execute
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MM gains triple value from Trigger Finger instead of double
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Double Tap procs from Volley and Trueshot overwrite each other
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Double Tap fires an additional Aimed Shot at 100% effectiveness instead of 80% effectiveness
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Rapid Fire with Double Tap only fires 17 shots instead of the expected 18
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If you queue Rapid Fire after an Aimed Shot cast with one or two stacks of Streamline, you lose the stack of Streamline with no benefit.
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With Precision Detonation talented, if you queue Explosive Shot after an Aimed Shot cast with one or two stacks of Streamline, you lose the stack of Streamline that the Explosive Shot would generate with no benefit.
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Aspect of the Hydra (AotH) has a 100ms ICD that causes AotH abilities queue'd after a prior AotH abiility that should reasonably benefit from the talent to not generate a secondary attack.
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AotH will not strike targets adjacent to the primary target if they are just out of range, despite the fact the similar effects, such as Trick Shots, will.
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AotH will strike the primary target if no secondary target is present
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Even with other targets available, AotH will sometimes strike the primary target
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AotH Aimed Shots do not trigger Precision Detonation
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Spotter's Mark states that "Damaging an enemy with abilities empowered by Precise Shots has a 30% chance to apply Spotter's Mark", however Precise Shots empowered Multi-Shots and AotH Arcane Shots only apply Spotter's Mark to the primary target.
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The 15% damage bonus from Quick Draw will apply to a mid-cast Aimed Shot when LnL procs
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The buff from Ohn'ahran Winds applies an alternate version of Spotter's Mark that double dips on Improved Spotter's Mark and restores 20 focus on consumption
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Casting Rapid Fire resets the swing timer on Auto-Shots, leading to large stretches of time between Auto-Shots
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Attack speed buffs such as Trigger Finger and % Haste buffs such as Bloodlust reduce the value of In the Rhythm (ITR) and the 11.1 2pc tier set buff
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Kill Shot/Black Arrow do not appear to properly proc Spotter's Mark when talented into Headshot
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The Nerub'ar Palace 4pc bonus is overwritten when spec'd into Moving Target
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The 200% damage from the 11.1 4pc tier bonus only applies to the main target
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If another hunter has an Explosive Shot on your target when you trigger the 11.1 4pcm that hunter's Explosive Shot can steal the damage amp from your set bonus
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When a LnL proc is comsumed with the 11.1 4pc bonus on a target with a pre-existing Explosive Shot debuff (this includes multiple targets affected by Explosive Shot from Salvo), it appears that all, some, or none of the target Explosive Shots can be affected by the 25% damage bonus from the Precision Detonation talent, with no apparent rhyme or reason.
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The crit rate modifier on Obsidian Arrowhead appears to be multiplicative
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The value for Streamline in all related talents is bugged to read $w1%.
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Sentinel can immediately apply to mobs without casting any abilities
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Sentinel debuff persists between arena rounds
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Sentinel DoT is able to tick multiple times per second
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Razor Fragments functions by applying a buff whenever Deathblow is triggered. This buff causes all Kill Shots/Black Arrows cast while it is up to gain 75% damage, and it causes the next Kill Shot/Black Arrow that lands to apply a DoT for 25% of its damage. This particular implementation leads to numerous problems when combined with a toolkit capable of back to back Deathblow procs, including from Kill Shot/Black Arrow itself. Examples of these issues are listed in individual notes.
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Withering Fire procs fire off an inconsistent number of Black Arrows depending on targets that are within range but out of LoS
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On three or more targets, secondary Black Arrows from Withering Fire procs will often hit the same target instead of selecting targets without the Black Arrow DoT
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Bleak Powder does not proc if Black Arrow kills its target
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Shadow Hound Beast Cleave does physical damage
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Shadow Hounds will not cleave if they despawn as they melee
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Phantom Pain and Double Tap do not interact properly, leading to less procs than expected
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Phantom Pain and AotH do not interact properly, leading to less procs than expected
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Phantom Pain activates its effect regardless of whether the target of Aimed Shot is affected by the Black Arrow DoT
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Embrace the Shadows does not heal the hunter from Dark Hound or Authority of the Depths damage dealt.
beast mastery
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Venomous Bite doesn't get added entirely on the Bloodshed tooltip., The Bloodshed spelltooltip makes no mention of the20% increased Kill Command damage when specced into Venomous Bite
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The Season 2 Tier Set is largely not functional, to summarize:
Bestial Wrath cooldown reduction does not function.
The Automatic Barbed Shot Jackpot from Bestial Wrath does not trigger the 4-set
The Automatic Barbed Shots cannot trigger Thrill of the Hunt or Poisoned Barbs
The automatic Barbed Shots uses up any existing Barbed Shot charges when it procs.
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Embrace the Shadows does not heal the hunter from Dark Hound damage dealt.
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Within the 11.1 development notes -
“Withering Fire now triggers from casting Black Arrow during Bestial Wrath and no longer auto-fires Black Arrow instead of gaining Deathblow.”
This has not been updated aside from not making Black Arrow not Auto-fire.
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No Mercy, when combined with Hunter's Prey, will cause your pet to swap to and attack whatever target is FIRST hit by Kill Shot, rather than what you are targeting.
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Slicked Shoes will always reduce the cooldown of Disengage even if it does not remove a movement impairing effect.
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Dire Frenzy is supposed to increase the duration of Dire Beasts by 1/2 seconds. Despite The Bear from Howl of the Pack Leader benefiting from other Dire Beast talents, it does not last 2 seconds longer when talented into Dire Frenzy.
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Lead from the front is supposed to increase the damage of your How of the Pack pets by 25%. This does not currently include the melee hits from the Bear pet.
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The pig spawn effect states that it should hit the primary target for a certain amount of damage and any nearby target for a certain amount of damage.
The main target is hit by both effects.
If you do not talent Beast Cleave but talent Dire Cleave, the Dire Beasts will cleave for 100% of their melee attacks rather than 90%.
surv
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Tranquilizing Shot (and extra tranq shots from Kodo Tranquilizer) cannot hit the orbs spawned from the Xal'atath's Bargain: Ascendant affix.
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Lead from the Front is supposed to increase the damage of your Howl of the Pack beasts by 25%. This does not currently include the melee hits from the Bear pet.
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The talent tooltip states Lead from the Front increases your pet's damage by when it should say 30% for Survival.
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When No Mercy causes your pet to Smack/Claw/Bite, it will consume a different amount of focus every time.
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If No Mercy causes your pet to charge in, it will not cast Smack/Claw/Bite.
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No Mercy, when combined with Sic 'Em will cause your pet to swap to and attack whatever target is FIRST hit by Kill Shot, rather than what you are targeting.
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In Solo Shuffle, the Sentinel debuff is not being cleared from targets between rounds. Sentinel can immediately start ticking on an enemy when a round starts, even if you have not attacked them yet. Clip linked shows Don't Look Back (shield from Sentinel DoT) refreshing before the game even starts.
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Sentinel should only be ticking once every two seconds. Something can cause Sentinel to start ticking multiple times per second per target; happens regardless of hero talents selected but more common with Eyes Closed. Also very weird stacking behavior where it hits 10 stacks and immediately resets to 1 stack; see logs in notes for more info.
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With Sentinel Watch talented, the 15s cooldown reduction for Coordinated Assault is not always granted when Sentinel ticks.
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When casting Bombardier Explosive Shot, Tip of the Spear does not always buff all 3 Explosive Shots.
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With Bombardier active, casting the Bombardier Explosive Shot has a very large range and can fire the extra Explosive Shots at mobs that are not in combat and pull them.
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Harpoon was partially fixed on most enemies. On large mobs/bosses that cannot move, such as the final boss of Rookery, it pulls you to the center of the mob and kills you.
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Kill Command's tooltip does not get increased from Spirit Bond.
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Outland Venom is not increasing the critical strike damage of: Kill Command, Flanking Strike (pet portion), auto attacks.
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Spirit Bond (mastery) is not increasing the damage of hunter auto attacks or pet auto attacks.
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Frenzy Strikes is appropriately buffing the player portion of Flanking Strike by 15% but is buffing the pet portion by nearly 150%.
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The 30% increased crit chance/30% increased crit damage is not working for your pet.
[Hunter Bugs TWW - Google Sheets](docs.google com/spreadsheets/d/1SyyJ9FJ-kU5LMMTsaXIesOUE4dY8cDiTkAVc-s0qw9M/edit?gid=958747325#gid=958747325)
7 Likes
this right here is why no good player interacts with the forums
its also why blizzard themselves gave up on it. good day
Barrage most likely needs to go back to the Class Tree.
That, or put on a choice node with Volley.
3 Likes
After the PTR update, which may include some of the very many bugs being fixed. Ill be sure to play around with some different stats for MM to see whats what. If after the PTR update MM is still sub 3million DPS while Arcane mage has a fast ramp time (couple GCDs) and nearly constant 5million dps, you might see me throwing my robes back on. Haven’t played mage much since Wrath, but it might be the right time.
I look at the known bug list where about half the bugs improve the damage MM does, but it still seems lackluster, so my hopes are present but tempered. Its all correctable with bug fixes and tuning. Really just tuning RF ES and AS to do way more damage would get MM up to Arcane levels. Luckily players are allowed to reroll all they want.
It would need to be significantly amped up to be a choice with Volley.
1 Like
Blizz pls read this. Critical bugs exist that make the spec not work. Current/live problems/bugs with dark ranger exist for a collection of the same type of problem that isn’t even correct (see dark ranger interactions with razor fragments) on live yet. You can’t invoke 25 more of them with the spec rework and expect people to play even more of a beta version on live for weeks after the patch.
A great starting point to look at is the interaction with the velocity/travel time of aimed shot as it pertains to the way you have to use streamline (and the bugs/problems it creates with explosive shot) and deathblow. Streamline needs to be consumed as soon as aimed is done casting. Deathblow needs to proc as soon as aimed is done casting. Both currently happen when aimed shot lands, which invokes the problem with correct use of your global and flow of streamline. Queuing up spells (rapid fire or explosive shot) that grant streamline instantly while aimed shot is in flight overcaps you when you’re at 2 stacks instead of consuming your two stack and then giving you your next 1st stack.
Aimed shot velocity is 100 yards/sec per the spell data dump on simc’s github. .45 to .50 sec of travel time at max range is enough to break these interactions. If not fixed, you are going to create a problem where marks hunter actually needs to use devoker or even melee positioning to play semi-properly.
Consider the way that glacial spike and flurry are intended to interact. Glacial spike has an intentionally long travel/animation time such that you’re able to queue up and cast flurry directly after it in order to proc flurry’s buffs on it when it lands. You’re invoking these mechanics with marks but the timing doesn’t work (explosive shot over caps you, you can’t queue headshot death blows with Windrunner) and that breaks the way you’ve redone it at its core.
Please also look at the feedback on streamline cast time values as it pertains to this situation. Imp streamline is not usable in pve because of how far below gcd floor it takes aimed shot. It also makes you want to use 0 haste because the best overall flow of the spec has you putting yourself at 2 stacks fairly often. Several of these mechanics need to either be clarified or hardened pretty quickly because you also can’t put yourself in a situation where you’ve got to tune this version of marks around everything else to be competitive. The burst possible with the base buffs required to average it out properly is not going to be tenable.
Also of note, 45s (shorter) trueshot aids in the solution to this problem. The base effects of ts are necessary that much more often, but it needs to be a thing you set up and use properly to get a sequence in 8-10 seconds instead of a 15-20 second buff. It’s actually kind of okay if base trueshot isn’t that strong if you get double tap and cdr/retuned modifiers to streamline for a shorter period of time approximately twice as often. Because of the burst you’re enabling, it feels like this version of the spec should not work around long dps cooldowns. Let it have a weak dps cooldown but let it use it often enough to not have to sit in dead time.
5 Likes