If you have Streamline x2, when you cast Explosive Shot you waste a Streamline bonus since you are already at its max stack. Cast Explosive Shot when you have only Streamline x1, it will raise to 2, and then you cast AiS.
You are using the two streamlines on aimed shot, and then casting explosive shot after aimed shot.
Oh, I understood now. You are saying that casting Explosive Shot just after AiS fires but before it lands wastes the ExS’s Streamline. Yes, sounds like a bug.
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The explosive shot also immediately explodes in this situation as well, so it might have nothing to do with aimed shot travel time and something to do with it not lasting long enough to grant you the buff in sequence. Either way it’s actually kinda crippling to the basic flow of the kit.
Another problem semi related to this is that with imp. Streamline in pve and haste, you lose the ability to cast explosive shot after aimed shot in this sequence and benefit from the talent because the aimed shot cast is too short and lands before the global is up to press explosive shot. (Too far beneath the gcd cap/floor)
If you have one streamline charge, use it on aimed shot, and then press explosive shot, you exit with one streamline charge. I think that makes it more evident that the streamline charges aren’t getting consumed until the aimed lands instead of when it finishes casting.
3 Likes
Definitely sounds like a bug or an interaction oversight. I was going to suggest consuming a precise shots before the explosive shot to give some time inbetween, but if you are talented into Magnetic Gunpowder and Shrapnel Shot they are both negatively affected by doing it that way.
Denying any hunter spec the ability to tame and bond with animal companions makes no sense at all. As a MM hunter I only ever use Lone Wolf in group content, for the additional damage, and to stop tanks complaining about losing aggro, which should never be an issue anyway with growl off on a ferocity pet. Other than that, one of my pets are out, always, because that IS a hunter’s identity. Having some random eagle flying over my head doesn’t get close. Please don’t do this … please.
17 Likes
It also kinda breaks the best sequence of building and spending streamline charges
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Just giving my two cents since I’d love for Marksmanship to continue to improve:
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the Auto Shot rework and all the talents that are associated with it are not fun and might even make the spec feel worse. Obsidian Arrowhead is a very ‘nothing’ talent, In the Rhythm you won’t be able to feel and will feel bad if you have to take it over an actual interesting talent, and the slower auto shots in general just… doesn’t feel like it should be one of the design goals of this spec. What happens when the 11.1 tierset goes away and you can’t increase your auto shot speed anymore? Just not a fan, personally would rather MM not focus on this.
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Given the removal of Wailing Arrow, would love more Lock and Load procs. Instead of getting more procs though, we’re getting less, because of the Auto Shot changes. Doesn’t feel very good, and the 11.1 tierset, while making the LnL procs feel awesome, activates like once every minute. Super underwhelming proc chance, and makes me dislike the Auto Shot changes even more. Also, Quickdraw is a super lame talent.
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Trueshot is still kinda meh, but it feels a little bit better with Tensile Bowstring working. however, the difference between 1 stack of streamline and 2 is jarring as hell and feels really weird. Maybe something that always gives you 2 stacks of streamline from using precise shots in True Shot, but it’s only 30-40% more effective? Not sure. Also, the 5 point investment to make True Shot useable is awful considering it feels worse than 11.0 and yet costs 2 extra points.
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Headshot, the killshot precise shot talent, feels really weird. I want to like it in theory, but having to constantly wait (by casting steady shot or something) when getting precise shot stacks to see if I proc Deathblow feels really bad. I don’t really have any suggestions here, but feeling like I have to spell queue a steady shot after some of my Aimed Shots so I can proc for Deathblow procs just feels bad.
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The 2-node Eagle’s Accuracy/Bullseye kinda hurts, and given the bottom right of the talent tree seems to scream ‘aoe’, bullseye’s location feels a little out of place
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The Explosive Shot mechanics are cool and I support precise detonation, but explosive shot needs to have a slightly longer detonation timer now
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Spotter’s Mark is not as fun as I wished it was, 30% chance of activating from using an ability(arcane shot in ST) that doesn’t even feel that good to use just doesn’t spark much joy.
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On Target doesn’t feel super relevant in ST. Maybe it’s designed to be an AoE talent since it felt like it had way more uptime in AoE, but for ST it felt impossible for it to stack and make it feel like it had any meaninful effects.
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Previously for Sentinel you would hold rapid fire for a bit if lunar storm was off cd soon, but now with bulletstorm/incendiary ammunition existing that feels even worse than before.
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Dark Ranger I only tried on the previous build but it felt like a joke. I agree with removing the super highrolls and super lowrolls but man, that hero tree feels awful now.
Personally I feel like the most important issues are related to Auto Shot, Lock and Load, and Trueshot, but that doesn’t really discount any misgivings about other aspects of the spec.
Sorry if there’s any bad takes, just trying to give my opinion and hopefully something is helpful. Good luck!
16 Likes
Also, a bug that I believe was introduced in the new build:
Using precise charges on black arrow or kill shot never procs spotters mark.
Reported on ptr as well. But this also radically impacts output if you’re playing with Windrunner quiver. And also interacts with some of the bugs in the post above.
Lock and load needs to be rppm now that we are messing with base swing timer.
3 Likes
After some more testing today, here’s an updated list of talents that feel like they need some looking at for Survival Hunter and Pack Leader
Survival Hunter
I think the bleed package (particularly born to kill) in general needs a second pass. It’s almost there, but a lot of the talents just feel too tight so you don’t really feel like they’re doing anything most of the time.
The Born to Kill enhancement for Kill Shot that’s attached to the Cull the Herd debuff is simply too short of a duration to really factor it into gameplay or play around it—with a maximum debuff duration of 8 seconds and Kill Shot’s cooldown being 10 seconds, you’d be waiting on a LOT of deathblow procs to get any value from the talent, which just isn’t realistic or feels particularly fun / like a nice pay off and ends up feeling more frustrating that half the talent isn’t realistically doing anything over any given fight.
Regarding Cull the Herd, part of the excitement of this talent when it was on the Pack Leader tree was the actual bleed it applied to your Kill Shot targets on top of the bleed damage increase %.
I think re-adding the KS bleed would do a lot for this package of talents and bring more of the fun back of that lining up with merciless blows.
Pack Leader
There are a few nodes on the new Pack Leader hero tree I think that are in need of dire attention as the value they provide is very low numerically and don’t even offer any sort of fun gameplay considerations—they add a bit too much disappointing to what’s to be an exciting new reimagination of the hero tree
- Ursine Fury / Envenomed Fangs
Envenomed Fangs is especially weak numerically and I feel doesn’t really do much for Survival (or Beast Mastery) at all. Neither spec has a realistic way of spreading SS that much to so many targets and the damage the bear provides by removing the DoTs is not worth the prior GCD investment of spreading SS to all the targets near. Additionally, even if you ignore spreading it and letting the Bear eat the SS dots from more “organic” gameplay the output just isn’t there to consider this as a viable option
Ursine Fury on the other hand, while being a very fun payoff for BM leaves much to be desired for SV, particularly in ST with Flanking Strike. The cooldown here offered to Flanking Strike is not much more than 1 single extra flanking strike over a 5 minute test which might as well not exist. The easiest solution would be to really jack up the CDR offered or the proc rate to make it actually feel like it’s functioning. At any rate, this whole choice node needs some serious attention to make it an exciting node to talent into.
- Shell Cover
As mentioned earlier in this thread, this node as a defensive option is just extremely weak. It’s a passive defensive that only gives 10% dr on a MASSIVE cooldown, and only activates after the damage is taken. Compared to the other defensive options on Hunter hero talents it’s very close to being negligible.
This node does not feel good or powerful as a defensive option and I can’t really think of a realistic situation where this node will do anything close to useful.
The turtle is cute though.
- No Mercy
This wasn’t listed in the dev notes but there’s a datamined and implemented effect that causes your pet to use the pet basic attack (smack, bite, or claw) on the target of the kill shot. however, this does not function if the pet isn’t in melee range when you kill shot. additionally, this extra pet basic attack costs focus, which survival pets do not really have the extra focus to spend.
on top of that, this as a talent is just very weak and not very thematic. this will barely add any damage over the fight for survival as is and does not feel like an exciting talent to have on a hero talent tree as the spec gets nothing from extra pet basics (we lost this synergy as it was on the old pack leader tree)
could this be changed entirely? the current intention of the no mercy node doesn’t really feel great or good.
3 Likes
Building the spec around RNG procs of lock and load combined with just not pushing aimed shot without streamline procs, meaning we cap on focus a considerable amount, is not going to make for an enjoyable experience for most. Trueshot continuing to be a bad DPS cooldown is also not helping.
7 Likes
In a very real sense it was, since taking Lone Wolf was more than 10% more damage than the next best option on that row in all situations (which was an abnormally large damage gap between talents on the same row, even for the MoP->SL talents).
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I didn’t even remember what where the competing talents, so I sought some very old Youtube guides and… Steady Focus? Focused Aim? Wow, Blizzard wasn’t even trying… 
BTW, Legion’s launch had the talented I most hated in the history of WoW: Sidewinders. A really bizarre talent that exchanged Arcane Shot (which then was a Focus generator) and turned it into launching some… things that moved like serpents and caused AoE, which was the top choice but I refused to take because they broke the spec’s fantasy so hard.
2 Likes
Trueshot feels bad without heavy talent investment. With heavy talent investment it feels okay, but weird. Double Streamline stacks inside Trueshot result in sub-GCD AimedShot casts, which feel really janky particularly when you have to follow it up with a single stacked slow AimedShot while still inside your CDs.
Outside of Trueshot the Streamline stacks functionally work and make the rotation a little more interesting.
Spotter’s Mark suffers from too much RNG at the same time as being hard to identify.
The tier set suffers from too much RNG, tying anything to LocknLoad when the proc rate is so low and unreliable feels really bad. Between Spotter’s Mark RNG, tier set RNG, and LocknLoad RNG it feels like we have very little control over our damage output.
In the Rhythm seems to be a forced take just cause of the tier and will likely be ignored forever after the tier goes away. Which makes it kinda bad.
On Target is unreliable due to Spotter’s Mark being unreliable.
Obsidian Arrowhead and Quickdraw are not compelling options.
8 Likes
L&L needs to be increased to 15%. At its current implementation, it is entirely too unreliable to be worth a talent point. If it remains at 8% then each rapid-fire shot should have a chance to proc L&L. At current, it procs about once every 1.5 to 2 mins, I’ve gone as high as 2 mins 45 secs between procs.
9 Likes
You know, I wouldn’t mind if they made the Spotting Eagle more visible.
- The animation for Harrier’s Cry should be the one that the hunter sees when Spotter’s Mark is applied. It’s way more visible, even from a distance. Other players could see the current one to avoid input overload.
- I wouldn’t mind if the Intimidation effect worked like current live petless Intimidation that summons a beast, except of course it shouldn’t be a random beast but the spotting eagle.
- Harrier’s Cry should have the eagle flying in circles above for a bit. I remember an old BM PvP talent that had to call an eagle to guard over an area, it could be the basis for this.
Of course, it would be even better if we can select our eagle’s appearance from any elligible pets in our stable, including non-eagles.
I agree with your entire post but god harrier’s cry is the coolest animation I’ve seen for a lust. I want that class wide 
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I think my opinion of it is jaded somewhat by my still being team pet. But it is definitely distinct. I definitely also want it class wide though because I think lust should be baseline for hunters, not tied to ferocity pets. Otherwise BM and Surv aren’t really getting a choice of which pet spec they use.
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thankfully in 11.1 any pet can be ferocity
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Yeah, that’s part of it though. It’s good we get the choice back. It gives us more choice in what pet we use. But not what type we use. It would be great to use the other pet specs and still have access to lust. As MM is getting.
1 Like