If you loke 5% - 10% its not optional its mandatory even if you can call a pet you wont, why? bc the raid and M+ forces you to queeeze ever little % of dps, hell even some guilds check your talents and logs if you have used a pet outside raid leader orders.
Blizzard has nerfed pets so much bc since wod development they are obsessed in removing pets, little by little they have dumb-fied pets, removing skills and they are fed up that ppl still like their pets in MM.
There is content other than m+ and raiding. I agree with you though, it makes sense to optimise for maximum dps in those situations.
MM functions best, and feels like a marksman, when you have the space to hang back and take aim. You don’t get that if you have to constantly run and kite and scramble to put distance between yourself and your target. In group content you have a tank to afford you that distance. But alone, that’s when you need your pet. The fantasy isn’t lessened by the pet. It depends on it.
Nah, mate. Raid and Mythic plus is not the be-all end-all content in WoW, there is so much more to the game, and many different ways to play. There is no right or wrong way. It is NOT mandatory unless the very thing you are trying to do is min-max that high level end game grind. That’s good for you if that’s your jam, but that’s not mine, and I want to continue playing marksman with a pet, the same way I have for 15 years. What other content is there?
Low level raids for people who just want to experience the story or farm transmogs and mounts and achievements.
Basic, Heroic, and even Mythic 0 dungeons for similar reasons.
PVP - and there are lots of versatile ways to go about this that can differ between battlegrounds, skirmishes, arena, or world pvp.
Delves for us solo players that just want a solitary quick 20 minute adventure.
World quests - yes, these are still a thing and still pretty enjoyable.
Leveling different characters or classes, going through different questing zones, just enjoying the lore.
Collecting things. Mounts. Pets. Toys. Transmog. Achievements. You can put years of effort and enjoyment into this without ever being a min-max gatekeeping tryhard.
World events, the things that make the world feel alive. Things like holidays, or the Darkmoon Faire, or time limited events like Plunderstorm or Remix. There’s always something to do.
Roleplayers exist, and while it isn’t my jam, there are some strong dedicated servers full of people who make this exclusively their thing. And to an extent, I appreciate that. The beauty of WoW is that it is an immersive experience - and literally an entire virtual world that you can just hang out in.
Almost forgot things like crafting and guilds and other social features, like playing the auction house market or collecting resources, but the point is, the world is filled with different activities that different people prefer to play, and catering to any one aspect of players at the expense of the agency and expression of others is wrong.
Taking away the pet from ALL marksmen hunters just because it is “not ideal” or “feels madatory” for only the hardcore players while ignoring and flat out disrespecting those of us who play marksman explicitly with a pet is detrimental to the overall health of the game, the class, and the enjoyment of EVERYONE. The easiest fix would be to separate the talents, abilities, and stat boosts from the pet and onto the hunter so that the spec plays essentially the same for both regardless of whether or not the hunter is using a pet (whether its as a mini-tank, loot fetcher, or just adorable aesthetic sidekick). Hell, I’m also fine with maintaining the slight damage reduction for keeping my pet, because it still gives me a choice, and frankly all the whining about (realistically) a 4% DPS difference is splitting hairs. You may kill an elite mob 4% faster but I’m still able to kill it too, and my pet keeps it from running up and hitting me in the face or forcing me to kite around like a lunatic. Not everyone cares about infinitesimal differences in damage when things like skill and gear can also easily adapt for that, and continuing the false narrative of saying that any choice is “mandatory” is ultimately misleading and untrue.
If you feel forced to play a specific way, but neglect to mention that it’s for specific content, while completely ignoring that other people enjoy having options and may play other content, then your entire argument is disingenuous at best.
I would like Wailing Arrow back but I could do without the Wind Arrows. They’re too unique to Thas’dorah IMO. I had a dwarf hunter before this one and it was annoying to have magical arrows conjured out of thin air when I was trying to get immersed in some WC3 Dwarf Rifleman fantasy.
If we can get Wailing Arrow back, can we trade in Cobra Shot from BM? I hate that it looks like I’m launching snakes out of my bow, I’d rather just have Serpent Sting as filler. I always liked a good poison-tipped shot, it was iconic and made sense. Hell, I’d trade in Arcane Shot for it too, just because it never made much sense but it was at least nicer looking than Cobra Shot.
Yeah that’s fair. I guess it was some fairly random magic for what’s (mostly) meant to be a physical kind of class. Still, could maybe have them elsewhere in the tree.
their compromise in legion was black arrow spawning some undead thing that would tank for a few sec, so i could see them doing that again. like a talent where using MD made the eagle taunt.
i feel like it could be part of withering fire maybe? it was kinda weird that it was in the reg tree.
i can want to keep pets in the spec but i can also recognize that 10 years is a long time and things are bound the change and shouldnt stagnant. im not gonna t hrow a temper tantrum if blizzard decides to get rid of pets for mm permanently. ill be sad but ill be fine. if they end up keeping them for mm then ill feel indifferent but okay. but please go off on how you are the only person who can dictate the rules on how to have fun on a hunter
they dont want a toy, they wanted a flavor thing for new mm if they decide to keep the pet. you belittled feedback because you dont like it.
imma be real with you. im not going to search nearly 2.5k replies for context. i am sure that both sides are acting like dip . i can probably scroll all the way up to the beginning and find the start of this gaggle of mess ups. but why would i? why would i spend my time finding whose truly at fault when the same 10 people make up nearly half of the replies in this thread. why would i care when my bug post got completely and utterly buried by the same argument being held since the start of this thread. how can any feedback get through when the first thing a dev see is people belittling feedback because they personally disagree on it. especially that warrior guy who spent 150+ replies on just personally attacking everyone and instigating
You just do normal with 0 io score so you barely do anything, raids ask fot aotc, 2k io, 2k rating and/or item level. You are clowning with all the content that has nothing to do with the topic. Try to get a queen heroic spot without aotc. Playing solo its miserable experience, just pugging heroic has been stressfull, 4 guilds ahve broken, but im not a coward that just do normal bc some aholes are mean or ppl reject me countless times bc my ethnicity, my former lack of aotc or any dumb nitpick.
Heroic raid? need best talents, M+? need best talents, mythic raid? guest what? need best talents! hell just in the last one you can lose your spot for under performing same for RBGs and Rated arenas, and now that i touch PVP, MM its the most easiest target ever, a mage and a lock has more chances of survival than a slow.
The fact that your hunter its what just a casual that barely do anything that requires effort makes it worse to your hollow and baseless wall of nonsense. when you have less of 3 max level right now, its hilarious. Oh 3 of my max 80s are hunters, and lose to 80 are mage and rouge, and im very good at prot pally but my hunter its my main, always has been in offical servers. i have almost the same time as you and this is my main character, thats not a excuse.
Can you stop projecting your experience and how you play on others?
Who are you to say someone do “barely anything”? you have your standards and he have theirs, tis not up to you to decide, he can expend more time playing doing whatever he want, even if its chatting with people in goldshire than you doing your damn io.
Everything he said have to do with the topic, all the content you can do with a pet.
Playing solo is miserable? maybe for you bub, not everyone care about struggling to go into a M+
For you maybe
He pay the same money that you did you clown, doesnt matter what he decide to do in the game in his time
You are speaking like an perfect elitist JERK, and its pretty funny after saying all the stuff about being rejected, maybe you are rejected because of your atitude
So basically what you just wrote was that you use the meta spec that is recommended on wowhead or whatever sims best from whatever website.
I think it likely you’re gonna just keep doing that. Pet, no pet, follow the meta spec/equipment guide and pew pew to glory. Nice.
Well, there are a lot of hunters out there and some (most) like the option of playing how they want and not just cookie cutting the best MM Hunter meta go fast, big damage guide. Most of these, probably the majority of MM Hunters that currently play the game, want the option to…
…summon their pet like they have for literally 20 years.
The changes introduced to MM Hunters for 11.1 are bad for the game over all. Maybe they are good for meta slaves? We won’t know until the rankings come in. Further, these changes have been tried in the past and discarded for very good reasons. And yet…here we are again. It’s not very good dev decisions. There is a way to make most players happy and that is what should be done.
It really does seem like a dictatorship. no options just do as I say because you are wrong in my mind. I specced into Lone wolf… not fun in delves and stuff, took 2.5x longer to do the puppetmaster delve. Decent in group content because bonus damage and the pet isn’t really a deal. Enough Mages, Evokers, Beast Mastery, Drums, Shamans… to take care of the Time Warp.
Forcing this entire spec to be pet less and the attitude of “suck it up buttercup” is absurd. They complain about their mechanics because all they want is numbers; they see the code of the matrix and think that is all that matters to anyone ever.
On all my characters I get complained at for not wanting to be the tippy top best at everything all the time and that I need to go play with duplo or tellertubbies. When they say RPG they mean character roleplay, not rolling like a cog in a machine to robotically win over the benevolent masters eventually. hunters and pets are RPG in this game. and the Lone wolfers are looking at the MMO subservience to leaders and performing adequately or above the call of duty.
what does blizz want? I don’t know, these changes to the spec outside of the pet thing are weird. But I have sat through Arcane spec (shenanigans) on my mage since Tier 5 and this is just another hurdle for a spec. but right now with no word from blizz its weird. I gave them the holiday thingers as a break but its Half Januari and I am not sure anyone is in the office back in the states for them.
I absolutely disagree with taking away the option to use your pet for an MM hunter. I love playing MM. I never use my pet when I’m in dungeons and raids and most group activities. I almost always use my pet when I’m doing a solo activity, from leveling to especially when I solo in delves. At that point, my pet becomes my tank since I am most effective as a ranged player. I realize that I can still shoot a target that’s right on top of me now. I’m just not at my most effective that way so my pet keeps them off of me most of the time. I personally do not like having that option taken away from me. If that’s not how you play, and you never use your pet in any circumstance, that’s great. Play how you want to play, and enjoy it. But they’ve now taken that option away from me. 
And like so many other hunters, I am attached to my pets. A number of them are named for pets I’ve had in real life. All of them have names that I thought about and picked for that particular pet and hunter. Some of them have been with me since I started playing wow in 2007. I don’t want to never be able to pull them out again unless I change spec.
Doesn’t anyone else see the irony here? This is ALWAYS what the hunter class has been about since day 1. To imply that somehow we’ve been “playing MM wrong” for 20 years and NOW everything is the way it should be seems hopelessly myopic to me.
Please, please don’t take MM pets away.
I have played Marksmanship for years and I have almost never used the option to go Lone Wolf. My pets are an integral part of how I play MM, from both a play and RP perspective.
My MM hunter has been my favorite character for years. If I lose my pets as a MM hunter, my MM main is going to become my Survival backline alt, behind four other classes.
I have a BM alt who gets very little play because the perks of the spec (i.e., two pets and exotic) are NOT worth how much less engaging MM’s playstyle is for me. I try it again each expansion and go right back to MM because I think MM is so much more fun – WITH my pets.
Unless you’re doing the race for world first, you do not need to have the best talents. It’s this mindless copying of what the RWL people are doing that makes things so toxic for everybody else.
. i can probably scroll all the way up to the beginning and find the start of this gaggle of mess ups. but why would i? why would i spend my time finding whose truly at fault when the same 10 people make up nearly half of the replies in this thread. why would i care when my bug post got completely and utterly buried by the same argument being held since the start of this thread. how can any feedback get through when the first thing a dev see is people belittling feedback because they personally disagree on it. especially that warrior guy who spent 150+ replies on just personally attacking everyone and instigating