Pot meet kettle
6 Likes
100% - please revert the Flanking Strike Change - it being a spender and another on demand gap closer was way more enjoyable.
EDIT: also it didn’t create button bloat if that was an issue that was focused to be tackled here - Removing Death Chakram was good for FS it wasn’t needed at all.
Personally, I would have preferred it be more powerful per stack and cap out earlier (which it now does) but keep the friction of mastering it. This feels more like a half-baked Way of Mok Nathal.
On the other hand, I totally agree, it kinda conflicts with the new centering around Tip of the Spear, so they might be right with the change. Still good they look in the viability of MF.
8 Likes
What have I asked to be removed? What button or option of yours am I trying to take away? Throughout this thread I’ve been asking for the option to opt out of Animal Companion, not remove it.
1 Like
I recognize that these are pretty quick first impressions and more time might make me feel differently about them, but:
Class Tree
Removing Steel Trap is a good thing for PvE, a negative thing for PvP. It would’ve been nice if we could’ve had it just do zero damage and remain on the tree somewhere, but it’s not make or break.
Implosive Trap is finally some much-needed group utility and hunter is finally able to use an AoE stop. This is great, though 1.5 min CD feels a little long. 30-45sec would probably be too short, but I think a 1 min CD would be a much better place without overshadowing any other specs who are already known for AoE stops.
I am overall pretty indifferent to losing Death Chakram. It is a cool ability but I think both Surv and MM (don’t play BM) play fine without it from my testing. I wouldn’t mind it staying/coming back, don’t really mind that it’s gone.
Marksmanship
Increasing Multi-Shot’s focus cost is fine, but that combined with losing Death Chakram and it’s focus gen results in Improved Steady Shot feeling much more mandatory, it’s very easy to be focus starved in AoE. This is unpleasant, as it is by far the least interesting and worst-feeling node in the top gate of the tree. Please baseline this talent.
Survival
Sic’Em, Butchery, Quick Shot, and Coordinated Assault changes are very positive. CA being a more typical damage increase does make the existence of Spearhead even more strange, though, since they both now very clearly fill the same roles. There’s nothing about CA that innately makes it feel better or worse in ST when compared to Spearhead, it will just come down to tuning, and that’s a weird place to be. Would prefer Spearhead to be replaced as a capstone.
Mongoose Bite/Fury changes I think are positive, though I think could still be better. The old version just didn’t really fit anymore in my testing, there are too many buttons that competed with Mongoose Bite. However, now it is just a boring maintenance buff. I don’t have any ideas I’m happy with on how this could be further improved, but I do think there’s still a lot of room for improvement here. At this point I’d almost prefer to just play without Mongoose Bite entirely if it’s numerically viable to do so.
Flanking Strike changes are overall very negative. This button was completely fine and felt great as a big spender, and now it’s a boring passive that doesn’t change how you play other than giving you an extra Tip stack over a regular KC.
This also makes this ability FAR worse in PvP, as you no longer have any control over the dash, and you can’t reliably build focus from range. One of the best parts about Survival in PvP is the choice of being able to play at range or dive in for more damage, and the Flanking Strike change directly contradicts that. We could just not take the talent in PvP, but that also sucks, the ability was always fun to use.
PLEASE revert the change to Flanking Strike. It’s already a niche spec and always will be, it doesn’t need to be designed for the masses and have even more abilities removed.
15 Likes
Too late. They’re on a crusade to snuff out “button bloat” wherever it may be.
Oh I didn’t thought about PVP - but this is totally true, it really ruins SV PVP Skirmisher Style.
2 Likes
Comparing this suggestion to what we have live, not the newest change, to be clear:
Unless outright aiming to net buff Mongoose Fury (though that means either MB becomes mandatory or has its base damage reduced, which then further divides MB from non-MB builds)… I feel like this would just make Mongoose Fury even more finnicky, actually, and still less intuitive to the average player.
Consider: Without buffing Mongoose Fury, you can’t possibly increase the duration of your 5th stack to match that of your first, which means some duration is going to have to be siphoned out of said first stack.
That leaves yet less time for other actions if wanting to get the most one can out of Mongoose Bite (remember, pre-Haste, even now you can only get at most 8 Mongoose Bites into a MF window even when opening that window with full Focus and Wild Chakram and/or a ToE Harpoon for the additional 21 or 20 Focus).
More importantly, this in turn means instead of having a ramp-ups and climaxes, you’re having lower peaks just to allow for lower valleys, but that’s going to be inherently less efficient — and, frankly, less dramatic, let alone exploitable.
As such, it’s not a big change, but I do expect it would be for the worse, even if not by much. Don’t take that as a slight; you’re still miles ahead of the devs here…
Now, to comment on the Mongoose Bite changes given by the dev team:
This is god awful. It turns Mongoose Bite into a 2-GCD ramp tax on Raptor Strike any time you haven’t been able to use it within the last 10 seconds, just for a dull bonus thereafter.
What you’ve removed Mongoose Bite for… is just Way of the Mok’Nathal but now applied only to Raptor Strike (renamed Mongoose Bite). We’ve been through this before. You saw copious criticism over it during Legion. It’s still terrible.
And no, the current design of Mongoose Fury does not pull your rotation in two separate directions any more than any class capable of both spending and actively regenerating a given resource.
5 Likes
Anyone else completely forget they have a hero talent tree active when playing Pack Leader? If we’re not going to get a new ability to use can we at least get noticeable visual effects?
12 Likes
Yeah, it really feels like if they’re to prune the button it should cause your next Raptor Strike that would otherwise be out of range to gain a dash-strike and bonus damage, not have KC force the dash by itself.
1 Like
Old Flanking Strike: W
New Flanking Strike: L
A charge that we don’t really get to control because of how often we cast KC just feels horrible. There are many PvP and PvE situations where we are forced from melee or simply want to be at range.
These situations will effectively stop/slow our focus gen. Even with aspect of the eagle we will need focus to cast Mongoose bites which require us to cast Kill Command/Flanking Strike.
6 Likes
6-25-24 Feedback
Pros
- Sic Em’ just all around dubs and feels great to push especially with pack leader. My biggest gripe was not using KS enough.
- New CA changes are great and removes the awkwardness of having to wait for pet basic attacks.
Cons
- Looking at you Flanking Strike. Please revert this change. This just makes 0 sense to change a ranged ability into a movement ability. I already off myself enough with flanking strike.
- Our single target feels awful to play. This is because Mongoose bite. This was such a unique ability to survival hunter having these mini ramps and felt really good when you were sitting at 5 stacks of MB. I would recommend reverting this change and adding talents that get you MB stacks faster. MB should not be a filler ability. This should be our go to for single target.
What do I want to see next.
- Remove Fury of the Eagle. Not sure what I would currently replace this with but we will never have time to press this in any scenario.
- Contagious reagents. This should have some other effect that increases our single target damage if no other target is around.
- Bring back SS. We dont use it any other time other than using it to pull mobs which feels great to have when needed.
- Bloody Claws. Feels better after the new changes with how it interacts with KS and always having MB up. But I feel this should be changed anyway.
6 Likes
Yep, I feel like giving the wailing arrow treatment to flanking is weird. Also am I reading right that in addition to being forced in melee, its essentially giving a consistent range nerf to Kill Command? (every 4th cast you have to be in 25 yrd range? KC is 50 yards)… Hella strange to have your range to use your ability suddenly nerfed.
MM is already focus starved which already sucks, now were back to spamming steady shot. No DC and increased focus cost/less dmg multishot = boring rotation
5 Likes
also the nerf to mongoose fury means bloody claws is actively worse now which is just funny as heck to me personally
5 Likes
Swap Pathfinding and Trailblazer…
It was bad enough giving it to Wailing Arrow.
Few points about BM tree:
- Kindred Spirits needs to be changed into something that could actually be picked.
- Training Expert needs to be removed or become a 1-pointer.
- Viper’s Venom and Hunter’s Prey is a great combination but nearly worthless when one is taken without the other.
- Shower of Blood needs to be redesigned or have more added onto it, there is no scenario where this talent would be worth taking.
We are starving for points in the BM tree and spending 2 points on something like Training Expert feels awful. Just remove it, place Dire Command there (something everyone is happy to take) and let us path Dire Command to Huntmaster’s so that its usable in AoE.
7 Likes
Survival feedback for Jun 25 patch
Sic 'Em change is excellent. No further feedback or change needed imo.
Quick Shot change is excellent.
Coordinated Assault change is mildy disappointing that it’s turned back into a passive damage amp instead of something interactive. There were many things that could’ve been done to remove the jankiness of this cooldown without just turning it back into a passive buff.
Mongoose Fury change is disappointing to say the least. Mongoose Fury was not a window that pushed you to only press mongoose bite, it was a window with increased damage that rewarded proper focus and bomb management with increased mongoose damage. The design of Fury as 5 stack fixed duration buff was not at odds with Tip management and now it is just a boring maintenance buff. It was already on the verge of a boring buff prior to this because you could do your rotation to 99% effectiveness by ignoring it so long as you managed kill command and bombs. There is no thought or complexity at all here, and what little there was before was nice as it gave an actual choice between MB and RS in aoe. Now it’s going to be mongoose bite 100% of the time and may as well just be a Raptor Strike deals 20% more damage node.
Bloody claws was already a never-pick talent with 5 stacks and is now completely dead in the water with only 3 stacks.
Flanking Strike change is a backwards change to what we had in the patch prior where it was a spender for a couple reasons. Flanking Strike does not interact with any of the kill command talents or hero talents and you are forced to use it prior to being able to kill command again.
The second reason is this makes Kill Command a dangerous ability as it now will swap from a 50 yard ranged ability to a 25 yard gap closer, effectively killing our ability to at least maintain some extra damage when a mechanic forces you out of melee and also makes focus generation dangerous on bosses that will kill you if you gap close them (Like Volcoross). Obviously paying attention to your spacing with the mob, and having a weakaura to tell you your KC swapped to FS on you will help deal with this but I shouldn’t ever have to worry that my ranged ability is going to suddenly yank me into melee.
Third reason which is mostly piling on the 2nd reason. Survival in PvP spends a large chunk of their time kiting dangerous melee classes and would use flanking strike to gap close to go for a kill or to even escape from a bad situation by flanking to something further away if harpoon or spearhead were down. Now we will randomly yeet ourselves into melee which is less than desirable.
– Feedback I had been waiting to give to see if it changed or not
Bombardier spikes our button bloat by refunding 2 charges immediately and is awkward by having half of it’s power outside of the CA window, especially now that CA is a passive 20% damage. My proposed change to deal with the bloat spike and the power window is to change on use to give 1 free use of bomb, at 5 seconds, give another free use, at 10 seconds give a free use of explosive shot, and then at 15 seconds give your 2nd use of explosive shot (and allow them to stack). This would keep the power within the window, and deal with the issue of Dump bombs → CA → Dump bombs that bombardier has had since it was first implemented in dragon flight.
Fury of the Eagle and Ruthless Marauder have a GCD burden due to marauder filling your bombs very rapidly when we already have many ways to fill them and requiring you to dump them prior to it’s use. My proposed change is cause ruthless marauder to throw any available bombs every third damage tick (and on use) so that you aren’t punished for channeling for 3s in a rotation that rewards having a high uptime on button throughput and so you aren’t forced to deal with the overflowing bombs by just mashing 1 button repeatedly.
Sulfur Lined Pockets wording implies the third proc will be an explosive shot but is currently the 4th proc.
11 Likes
On the newest changes, overall interested to see where they go and love implosive trap (I’ve been wishing for it to my friends), but I have to say:
Kill Command into forced Flanking Strikes is a BIG no in general, but a HUGE NO in PvP.
Scenario: You’re taking damage from melee (PvP or PvE), so you pop Aspect of the Eagle to kite, you use Mongoose Bites, you’re low on focus, but you just used the 3rd Kill Command. You now either stop doing damage and waste the rest of Aspect of the Eagle, or you charge in and die.
This either needs to be totally rethought or there needs to be a choice node where Flanking Strike either does the charge or becomes Kill Command + Raptor Strike (with Aspect of the Eagle) so you can press it from 25 yards and not kill yourself as part of your rotation. I generally don’t like not having the choice of when to charge at your enemy.
3 Likes
Being forced into taking any talent involving Kill Shot to get Dire Beasts feels terrible, it already does less damage than a Kill Command so using it at any HP % does nothing
7 Likes