maybe if they changed the passive %buffs to things that tied into the rest of each spec’s kit, it would give more opportunity to feel more destro for destro locks.
3 Likes
I have to echo this sentiment. It’s only made worse by the fact that this is now an across-the-board problem plaguing virtually all classes. Almost all of these Hero Trees seem to favor one of the two specs that share them over the other. The latter very much feels like an afterthought or that it’s being shoehorned to fit in.
What we really needed, and I think most players wanted, was an overhaul of each class and spec talent tree not this new system. The DF revamp of the talent system launched as a complete mess and very little was done to address it over the course of this expansion.
I am profoundly disappointed that instead of tackling this major issue head on in the lead up to TWW it’s being largely ignored in favor of yet another new system that’s likely not going to go anywhere despite the “evergreen” tag.
7 Likes
I also would like to know that. Cause if it works with Wither like with Corruption that would make Hatefury Rituals truly OP. Or it will work like in PvP where it just increases its duration
Assuming its Absolute Wither, it would mean that Hatefury Rituals buffs the damage for free, but you lose out on Cull the Weak, Pandemic Invocation, and the MR damage from having Siphon Life. But you do gain a keybind for Malevolence and get an easier rotation, so win/win I guess?
The only thing “Hellcallery” about this tree is that it collectively made all of us call out: what the HELL!? 
6 Likes
That’s okay, it would be fine if a specific tree leans more to one spec, the problem is when out of all specs one is left, orphan
I’ll be honest… from a Destruction perspective, Hellcaller just isn’t it. I get it, Hellcaller is a traditionally ‘Satyr’ aesthetic, and they’re more well known for mixing curses and fire and all, but it still reeks of an Affliction-themed Hero Class. Which is terrible, since Diabolist already reeks of being a Demonology-themed Hero Class!
My wish list, my personal desire, is just… base it off the Shadowlands ability ‘Impending Catastrophe’, but you know, a whole hero class to make it good. Rebalance the numbers, give us talents to change how it works dramatically, make it replace Cataclysm and Vile Taint or something, let it summon an 8 sec demon like it can in Torghast.
I hated Shadowlands, don’t get me wrong, I didn’t even like playing with Impending Catastrophe, but there is no single ability that Warlocks have had that screams ‘Hellcaller’ more to me than that one. And on paper, it should have been awesome! It was just so poorly tuned and awful to actually use.
You can still keep the Satyr theme too, lol, but instead of forcing Destro into a weird Dot-playstyle with replacement Immolate, give us something flashy and destructive that also spreads dots and curses.
As an example… of something my brain concocted.
Impending Catastrophe: 40 yd range, 1 min CD. Call forth a cloud of chaotic energy that travels to the target enemy, dealing Shadowflame damage to enemies in its path. When the cloud reaches the target it explodes, inflicting either Curse of Weakness or Curse of Tongues, and dealing Shadow damage over 12 sec to all nearby enemies.
-Affliction: Replaces Vile Taint if known, also applying Agony on damaged targets.
-Destruction: Replaces Cataclysm if known, also applying Immolate on damaged targets.
Then just have hero talents to support it, maybe reduce the cooldown by 30 sec, summon an Infernal/Darkglare for 8 sec on arrival, maybe a split talent to let us instead choose a location like Vile Taint/Cataclysm, causing it to move there and then explode, paired with a talent that makes it travel faster. Make the animation similar to Kil’Jaedan’s Burning Wish, but a roiling ball of fire and shadow instead of pure flame.
I honestly don’t know how well it’d work in reality, but please, I beg of you Blizzard, you have Soul Harvester to go ham on the themes of Affliction, and interact with its core playstyle of dot management, don’t force it on Destruction Warlocks.
(Reposting it from the broader hero talent tree blizz post, per recommendation)
7 Likes
Hmmm well, honestly, I like the idea of DoTs being a bigger focus of Affliction, and without seeing any sort of talent tree changes, I like the new set of hero talents.
I think the “lack of destruction theme” is unwarranted and it’s like “what do people expect from a half affliction half destro set of hero talents?”
100% would have to see how these interact with any possible talent changes going into the next xpac to really have a big opinion on them.
1 Like
I debated, for that idea, of making Impending Catastrophe apply Corruption instead of a 12 sec Shadow dot, and maybe thats the better way to go, but…
Destruction still gets a secondary Shadow dot anyway. If its Corruption, Affliction doesn’t benefit from an additional dot for its varied abilities.
1 Like
I’m really trying to be civil here but this is insane, I was really looking forward to what iteration/changes for Destro the devs were going to give us in TWW since this is by NAME the defacto Destro Hero Talent Tree and I’m sorry but this is bad, really bad, I could’ve expected this to go many ways but turning destro into a B tier dot spec when affliction can do that so much better is just, to put simply, unoriginal and boring, I can’t believe anyone that actually plays destro designed this, like it’s actually impossible to concieve how anyone that actually plays destro came up with this, and don’t get me wrong the tree is AWSOME! For Affliction, at this point I’m wondering if this is the Soul Harvester Tree and someone mixed them up when making the post.
I know this is supposed to be feedback but I honestly can’t think of anything that wouldn’t fundamentally change everything out of this Hero Talent Tree, but as far as what I expected, well, I was expecting something along of lines of more Fire and Chaos damage tied to the Sargeras lore like Scepter of Sargeras back in Legion, Fire and Brimstone, Kil’Jaedan’s cunning, Felflame and more Inferno interactions, but alas we get a cute little dot to magage, yay?
9 Likes
I have to somewhat agree to this, even though I’m really hoping Affliction gets better then anything remotely close to this for Soul Harvester, Hellcaller while hard to have Affliction in the tree, a issue trying to cater for both specs really, I honestly thought would be the saving grace for Destro after seeing Diabolist.
Diabolist hits the mark for Demo as Hellcaller should have taken priority and hit the mark for Destro and Soul Harvester for Affliction. But this…”Hellcaller”, isn’t even remotely close to anything for Destro at all, nor is Diabolist. It really seems Destro was an after thought squeezed into the two trees.
10 Likes
I’m late to the party on feedback which will most likely not get seen, but I still have a sliver of hope. There is absolutely no Destruction class fantasy in either Hellcaller or Diabolist. I looked over these hero talents and to me they just look like Affliction and Demonology with extra steps.
Affliction has problems that need to be solved like with malefic rapture being our soul shard spender, corruption/siphon life bloat, needing to choose between 2 capstone talents for either single target or aoe. We need work done on Affliction. We need to reduce the button bloat and not add to it.
Demonology with the Diabloist hero talents is the only spec that actually looks good when it comes to what you guys envisioned hero talents.
Destruction could use a lot of love and class fantasy in our hero talents. Imagine if one of the hero talents to choose from we got to cast channel demon fire while moving or have some kind of interaction with rain of fire for Destro and for Aff it could be something to do with seed of corruption or vile taint (which should NOT even cost a soul shard to cast!) our hero beginning talent and end cap stone talent could have been something revolving around our soul shard spenders. to help solve Affliction and Destruction problems.
The more I think about it the more I see how much you guys could have used hero talents to fix issues with the specs and not add issues.
7 Likes
To be honest, I wouldn’t mind if we got something like this? My mind went sorta wild the more I thought about Impending Catastrophe for a hero talent basis, so… I tried my hand at making my own version!
(Keystone) Impending Catastrophe: 2 sec cast, 40 yd range, 1 min CD.
Call forth a cloud of chaotic energy that travels to the target enemy, dealing Shadowflame damage to enemies in its path. When the cloud reaches the target it explodes, inflicting either Curse of Weakness or Curse of Tongues, and applying Wither onto targets damaged.
-Affliction: Replaces Vile Taint if known, applying Agony on targets damaged by the explosion and slowing them by 50% for 12 sec.
-Destruction: Replaces Cataclysm if known, applying Immolate on targets damaged by the explosion.
-Wither: A vile malediction that burns the sinew and muscle of its host, dealing Shadowflame damage over 12 seconds (Gains stacks like Agony).
Row 1 (Left to Right)
- Xalan’s Ferocity (Unchanged)
- Catastrophic Origins: Wither lasts 50% longer (18 sec now), and the inflicted Curse from Impending Catastrophe last 75% longer.
- Xalan’s Cruelty (Unchanged)
Row 2 (Left to Right)
- Mark of the Legashi / Aura of Enfeeblement (Unchanged, though maybe a clarification that Aura doesn’t stack with your full power curses, and an added note for Mark of the Legashi that Impending Catastrophe now also just applies both curses to all targets damaged… admittedly, the AoE curse application of Impending does weaken Aura of Enfeeblement a fair bit!)
- Catastrophic Lesson / Targeted Catastrophe: The cooldown of Impending Catastrophe is reduced by 30 sec, and travels faster to its target. / The cooldown of Impending Catastrophe is reduced by 30 sec, its cast time is reduced by 0.5 sec, but you no longer target an enemy, you select a location. Impending Catastrophe travels to that location before exploding on arrival.
- Zevrim’s Resilience / Illhoof’s Design (Unchanged)
Row 3 (Left to Right)
- Mark of Xavius: Seed of Corruption now also applies Wither to the primary target when the demon seed explodes, and Rain of Fire causes your next Immolate to also apply Wither on its target.
- Contained Cataclysm: Impending Catastrophe’s damage is increased by 125% plus 25% per enemy target hit on the way to its final target, to a maximum of 250%.
- Mark of Peroth’arn (Its just Blackened Soul, just moved here, and under a different name)
(Capstone) Hell Breaks Loose: Impending Catastrophe now also summons a powerful demon for 8 sec at the explosion location.
-Affliction: Darkglare, does not extend the duration of dots.
-Destruction: Infernal, does not stun.
2 Likes
yeah this is an awesome point. hellcaller definitely seems like a destruction theme, specifically a permanent infernal pet, or like an extra demonic summon that is fire themed, not sure what other kind of fire demons exist, the ones like baleroc and smolderon?
i’m not sure, but just the idea of that is so exciting. but instead is just a new DoT that replaces an old DoT. so i definitely feel like the people designing these aren’t reaching for fun and excitement, or even the appropriate themes…
3 Likes
I’d ADORE Perma Infernal pets once again, and might as well go the full way, and give Perma Darkglare pet too, some level above Voidwalker/Felhunter, but not damage cooldown level. Trade burst for consistency/utility.
However… I think I know generally why they didn’t? Hellcaller, as a concept, is satyr specific, and even in the old WoW RPG, the Hellcaller was a racial class for Arcanist (Warlock) that gave up demon summoning for greater firepower and curses.
If anything, it makes it weird that Grimoire of Sacrifice doesn’t see any talent interaction! xD
3 Likes
Just cause I conveniently had it written down >_>
Summon Infernal (Pet): Summon Infernal: 6 sec cast, 1 Soul Shard. Summons an Infernal, with 5% more health than a Voidwalker, with the following abilities:
- Seethe: Instant, 30 yd range, 10 sec CD. The Infernal taunts the target to attack it for 5 sec, and increases its threat against the target. Autocast: Taunts the current target if it is not attacking the Infernal and taunts any target who attacks its master.
- Infernal Charge (Command Demon Ability): Instant, 6-25 yd range, 1 min CD. The Infernal charges an enemy, causing Flamestrike damage to its target and knocking back other enemies it runs through, stunning and interrupting the target for 4 sec.
- Burning Presence: Instant. Radiates Fire damage to nearby enemies every 2 sec, and increasing threat generation. Has a 40% chance to generate a Soul Shard Fragment. Autocast: Always keep this effect active.
- Blaze Magic: Instant, 30 yd range, 15 sec CD. Burns harmful spells, removing 1 harmful Magic effect from an ally. Autocast: Cast upon master when they are unable to cast spells due to a Magic effect.
If sacrificed, gain Meteor Strike.
- Meteor Strike (Sacrifice Demon Ability): Instant, 40 yd range, 1 min CD. Release a powerful burst of flames, dealing Fire damage to nearby targets, and stunning them for 3 sec.
Summon Darkglare (Pet): Summon Darkglare: 6 sec cast, 1 Soul Shard. Summons an Darkglare, with 5% more health than a Felhunter, with the following abilities:
- Seize Magic: Instant, 20 Energy, 40 yd range, 15 sec CD. Purges 1 beneficial Magic effect from an enemy, and if an effect was removed, reduce the target’s movement speed by 50% for 15 sec, while also granting the Darkglare 60 Energy.
- Optical Blast (Command Demon Ability): Instant, 40 yd range, 30 sec CD. Blasts an enemy’s spellcast. If a spell was countered, prevents any spell from that school from being cast for 5 sec and reduces the cooldown of Optical Blast by 6 sec. Otherwise, silence the target for 1 sec if no spell was countered.
- Eye Beam: 2 sec cast, 40 Energy, 40 yd range. Deals Shadow damage to a target, increased by 10% for every damage over time effect you have active on their current target.
If sacrificed, gain Shadow Lock.
- Shadow Lock (Sacrifice Demon Ability): Instant, 40 yd range, 30 CD. Locks an enemy’s spellcast. If a spell was countered, prevents any spell from that school from being cast for 5 sec and reduces the cooldown of Shadow Lock by 6 sec. Otherwise, silence the target for 1 sec if no spell was countered.
Talent Interaction (Destruction)
- Infernal Brand: Your Infernal (Pet)'s melee attacks cause its target to take 3% increased damage from its Burning Presence, or from its Immolation (Rain of Chaos/Avatar of Destruction).
- Crashing Chaos: When Infernal Charge/Meteor Strike is used, empower your next 2 casts of Chaos Bolt/Rain of Fire.
- Grand Warlock’s Design: Reduce the cooldown of Infernal Charge/Meteor Strike by 15 sec.
- Rain of Chaos: While Infernal is active, every Soul Shard you spend has a 5% chance to summon an additional Infernal that lasts 8 sec.
Talent Interactions (Affliction)
- Malevolent Visionary: Eye Beam deals an additional 1.5/3% more damage for each damage over time effect.
- Grand Warlock’s Design: The cooldown of Optical Blast/Shadow Lock is reduced to 24 sec, but no longer reduces its own cooldown if a spell was interrupted.
- Grim Reach: Eye Beam deals 25% of its damage to all enemies affected by your damage over time effects.
5 Likes
You have thought way more in depth than I ever have.
I think what is cool is “Shadowflame”, it compliments both specs putting them together. Affliction + Destruction = Shadowflame.
I think as Destro it could double down on this aspect, turning our spells into Shadowflame versions, imagine Incinerate, Immolate, Conflagrate, Chaos Bolt infused with the addition of Shadowflame.
I was really hoping as Destro more talents would affect Chaos Bolt aswell, make it as glorious as it once was but with the addition of Shadowflame thrown into it.
6 Likes
Honestly for Destro here’s my short wishlist;
-
Base talents should be worked on and fixed, aoe shouldn’t rely on hyper specific scenarios in high keys to ramp up. AKA rain of fire doesn’t feel very destructive in most scenarios
-
Anything that makes immolate debuff less annoying to manage is good, instant cast wither is super interesting just for that. Not a fan of debuff management on destro to begin with but it’s just one, and I am all for stuff making it better so in that regard wither is awesome.
-
As others stated, we need something for chaos bolt, it’s the iconic most fun button to press for Destro but nothing impacts it. How amazing would be to see a shadowflame infused chaos bolt go explodes in a massive AOE ? Or them splitting across multiple targets? Something that would definitely SCREAM DESTRUCTION when it happens?
Shard generation is already the slowest of all warlock specs, make it worth it to cast our actual fun abilities. I get it that’s hard to do in trees shared with other specs, but we need to find a way to appeal to destruction
1 Like
Corruption is already instant cast for Affliction. What additional benefit does Affliction get?
Stop giving Affliction to interns.
1 Like
This sums up my own opinion perfectly.
I was expecting the hellcaller tree to have a heavy destruction theme and construct, pretty disappointed with this one honestly
7 Likes