Glyph of lingering ancestors applies the same idea when you revive someone.
Youâre correct, and itâs odd that this happens, as it copies the appearance of the character who was revived. Itâs just lazy, it should be a spirit of an ancestor.
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All I want from these ancestors is to be my characters race and ghostly looking. No reason to overcomplicate it.
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I get the feeling the only way we are going to know any dev at blizzard has checked on this thread is when it gets locked or deleted.
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All I can say is 
Great post my friend! Elemental is sorely in need of a rework and we have been asking for a long time.
If not for us Blizz, do it for Thrall.
Look into the class, compare our defensive/offensive/healing toolkit to that of the other classes and just note how poorly shamans have been buffed compared to other classes over the past few expansions. Even if you start by putting a bandaid on the current build, Flameshock spread and Earthquake really need looking into. Resto shaman also needs an external or another decent defensive if it is ever to compete with the meta classes of M+ too.
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Like what exactly? What is the average player failing to achieve with the current set up for elemental?
Just go look at the multiple topics of multiple players asking for fixes for elemental shaman. The toolbox is weak. yea we have utility but it isnât useful in raids, we have no buffs, ankh is a joke, we have to play a mini game of rng to do decent damage compared to other classes that is straight damage/crit, but just go look at the forums though.
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Many things per all the posts but to me the most annoying is our setup to do area damage. It takes having Flameshock on everything to get it going and we donât have enough tools to spread it quickly meaning we lose alot of damage, especially in M+. Earthquake too does very little damage and itâs in a stationary area. Our Elementals are there more for show then anything, our Fire Elementals biggest contribution is giving us a 45s Flameshock.
No one is saying that the spec is unplayable but it is fairly sub-par compared to where it could be. Since raid and M+ are the majority of the PvE content, itâs not ok for this to continue.
Alot of us here judging by the posts have played the class for a while. Itâs not a one off thing where Ele looks bleak this season and going into next season, this has been ongoing for multiple patches and expansions where the shaman playerbase has more or less asked for the same things without really getting anything. I think thatâs where you get alot of the furstration of people responding to your posts.
6 Likes
The Average player is understandably fine with ele in its current state because anything can work for most casual content. No offense meant whatsoever of course. The main grievances come more from the higher end players and those weaknesses are:
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Poor mass AOE damage with fire build because we are capped to 6 targets with our main gameplay loop with prim wave â lava burst and earthquake does pitiful damage on its own even with the 50% buff it received.
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Spenders are insanely weak, like 5% of our damage each in M+ scenario if played optimally
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Big lack of defensives compared to other ranged dps.
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No unique group buff
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Fire elemental as a 2.5 min cooldown is extremely underwhelming, and our lack of a true DPS CD means we arenât nearly as good with Power Infusion or Aug Evokers compared to other classes either, and in most high-end situations burst damage is king.
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Relying on DRE proc RNG to match most other classes in damage, meaning some pulls can vary wildly in your performance based off a roll of the dice.
Truthfully, we ARE fine for heroic raiding and M+ 20 weeklies, but so is every other class in the game. Itâs the fact that we want to be wanted as much as other classes for the highest end content in the game too, but it usually falls on deaf ears. At least for 4-5 expansions now it has, besides very niche situations (Uunat in BFA etc)
The main argument isnât really that we lack utility at allâŠitâs more that there are always much better options than us for higher end content (Mythic raiding/25+ M+ dungeons) because there is no reason to bring us over classes that bring the utility we have + more on top of that.
Granted, I love ele no matter what and have always mained them since WoD. Iâm not completely dooming and I have hope for TWW, but this is where a lot of the community is at atm.
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I donât understand why they canât just bring a Skyfury aura giving 3% increased crit chance. Same happens to other hybrids like druid, the healer and tank specs always eclipse the DPS specs.
Bringing in Skyfury/Leader of the Pack/Moonkin aura would go a long way from having hybrid dps specs overshadowed.
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I only agree with the removal of Icefury and Frost Shock if itâs something that wonât get synergized in builds anymore (though it really should) and the continuation of the split between Fire vs Lightning builds. As for the reworking of Elemental Blast, I donât know what your or (if others have it) issue is with Ele Blast. The only thing I can think of is it feels bad because on a spec that has Stormkeeper charges, Lava Burst proccs, and not 1 but 2 instant cast Spenders, it feels slow for the spec. That being said, having a cast time on a ST spender I think is good because it feels moreâŠpowerful? Effective? When cast opposed to how forgetful people are that a lot of our spells can be instant cast compared to other specs in the game.
If your argument in response is that Lightning build can take seemingly a lifetime to get rolling w/ 0 maelstrom into a pull and having to hard cast several Lightning Bolt/Chain Lightnings, then perhaps thatâs more of an issue with the amount of maelstrom generation and not an issue with Ele Blast. However, I donât know what peopleâs issue with Ele Blast are so Iâm all ears with what your concern or grievance is on it.
Look mate Iâm new to this forum to check for updates and Iâm not reading the last 20 something days of whatever all this is. But the fact youâre the Community Council and continue to argue is part of the issue, if you didnât sit and argue and focused on the actual thematics or interactions of the hero talents it would feel more like youâre actually Community Council and not some dude that seems to think heâs the voice for the SUPER CASUAL players that youâve also labeled as âaverageâ. You couldâve provided feedback (positive and negative) and that seems like it wouldâve potentially given less issue. But also to what I have seen scrolling down to the bottom, if not everybody plays the game the exact same then why the heck does it matter if theyâre speaking on medium-higher end of the spectrum? Why is your point valid because ânot everyone plays at that levelâ when itâs them playing higher end, and not also ânot everyone plays at that levelâ for you playing a medium or lower end?
Personally summoning a spirit is bland for HERO talents. Should Shamans be more involved with spirits in rotation and spells as a whole? Sure, I get thatâs thematic to them so yes. However, an ancestor buffing some of my spells or summoning another ancestor is as boring as Holy Priests proccing a Naaru during healing. They should find a different way to include ancestors into Elemental Shamans but this isnât the way. Nothing about that screams âHero talents!â the way their initial clip of that warrior throwing his weapons down, going hulk and jumping down on enemies. I donât even play warrior and that looked cool as heck.
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- What do you consider âaverage playerâ, 2) what are they failing to achieve? Fun. And/or sanity, depends on if you procc another Lava Burst or not because thatâs all that our tier set cares about, which is appalling that thatâs even an interaction that could get busted given Lava Burst wasnât supposed to be anything more than a hard hitting cast on CD with a sometimes procc.
For some context, if you go to warcraft logs and look at Heroic Amirdrassil, 75th percentile, for DPS, weâre at a whole 21,000 parses. Thatâs 19th of 26 specs, less than 10,000 parses above Survival hunter, 1/5th of the 2nd most parses, and less than 1/10 of Ret pally whoâs 1st at over 250,000 parses. So I ask you, whatâs average? that puts the spec as a whole for NUMBER of parses, in the bottom 5th of ALL dps specs. If you look at the DPS points that puts us even lower at 22nd of 26. Even w/ Afflic Lock and only slightly above MM hunter which has had issues this tier. What part of that is âaverageâ?
Weird, I still see people playing Affliction, MM, etc.
These numbers only stop the people who arent examples of the average player, and its nothing shorter than people expecting perfection from strangers.
By that measure why do Healers exist considering there are folks running 25+ without healers?
And I played Survival still when there were literally less than 100 parses logged on Heroic/Mythic fights in BfA IIRC, that didnât make me average that made me CASUAL. These are supposed to be HERO talents, either super powerful or super thematic and preferably a good power level with a TON of theme to them. A passive summon of an ancestor is NOT thematic. Have you looked at other trees? Rider of the Apocalypse LITERALLY lets DKâs ride on their Deathcharger while summoning other Riders. Thatâs a passive but it feels COOL. Flameshaper for evokers gives you a huge thematic damage button, Scalecommander gives you the ability to Disintegrate on 3 targets and buffs it by 25% per missing target if thereâs less than 3. Both of those spells will look, feel, and interact insanely well, as they SHOULD for a Hero talent.
As for numbers, sure those exist but again youâve proven everyoneâs point by not answering anything I also asked of you. Leilau asked what your feedback was and it took 2 responses for you to actually give an answer. Iâve asked what do you consider an âaverageâ player because quite frankly youâre talking about the other extreme, the super casual, not an âaverageâ player. Youâre using examples of extremes when Iâm pushing 18-20âs finally this late into S3 on my shaman at 469 or so ilvl as someone who hasnât been able to even raid 1 night a week consistently because of my work schedule and even I am not getting into keys. I usually am in mythic raid teams only getting about half of mythic progged by the time burnout or the new tier comes out so I would not consider myself the âupper echelonâ of whatever the hell group youâre speaking about.
You state facts while deflecting 90% of the actual content that anyoneâs speaking of. summoning Ancestors is bland, that isnât subjective that is objective given itâs a HERO talent that has hardly any interaction with us! The supporting talents are âitâs more powerful and can summon one when it endsâ. At least if we got another talent tree passive it would give more interaction than literally the priest having a passive that sometimes summons a Naaru to cast some heal spells.
As a hero talent tree I want to feel like the best iteration of Thrall with my hero talents! Give me Thrall meets Avatar mode Aang from Avatar the Last Airbender even for a few seconds because thatâs what they SOLD Hero talents as. The ONLY other ancestor interaction we have in our kit is a glyph.
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Iâm not a healer, but wouldnât a healer want something more reliable than a proc? When something goes wrong do healers really want to be sitting there, cheeks clenched, muttering âPlease proc an ancestor, please proc an ancestorâ? Saving the day being based on rng instead of skill doesnât sound fun to me.
It seems to me like this is an impossible thing to balance, too. If the ancestors are strong enough to save a wipe then the rng nature will chafe people. If they arenât very strong then theyâre just pixels.
But like I said- I donât heal. I could be way off base here.
As for elemental its just Mastery Part II- Son/Daughter of Deeply Rooted Elements. An rng chance to do some extra damage. Maybe it procs during the plus damage phase and maybe it doesnât. Maybe it procs when that important add is up and maybe it doesnât. Maybe it procs on that one super nasty pull and maybe it doesnât.
Hey yo- we heard you like rng so we added some rng to your rng so you can rng while youâre rnging.
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OMG I laughed so hard at this, you have no clue. You hit the nail on the head on this one my friend!!
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Itâs okay if you havenât tried healing, I highly recommend it, chain heal strong!
but itâs far more to it than waiting for something to proc, by baseline a large portion of the Shaman class itself is RNG, WoTLK and Cataclysm brought forward more of these % to reset remaining cooldown abilities.
Ancestors offer a slight benefit overall but the core gameplay as a healer remains the same. It may change by the time itâs in our hands but as it stands our overall play style is often tied to tier sets, so who knows what the next one will be.
All I ask is that you please make Farseer and Stormbringer balanced for elemental and you donât make tier sets that force us into 1 or the other.
Farseer is clearly the fire hero spec and thatâs fine. A lot of people like the fire style builds. But I donât, so please, just make the hero specs balanced and no more tier sets that dictate play style.
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