07/30/2018 05:59 PMPosted by
Krienn
For those of us complaining about the horde always winning, im telling you it has absolutely nothing to do with the changes being made. The horde has changed their strategy and is doing a way better job at staying grouped and properly sending the right number of players to back cap.
Alliance, we have not been as organized. Phalanx is keeping an eye on the bg for this reason so he/she can properly assess the changes which is wise imo.
I have lost more games than I have won but i have still won. When we do win, we normally have a good leader doing raid warnings now and then in addition to solid players using their heads and going where they need to go.
Often times it comes down to the horde having a massive amount of healers as compared to ally. In no way do I see the changes, however, being the determining factor to why we lose.
Iâve been running 5 man groups all week and seem to have had a bit more luck than some of us. If you want to run together, let me know and we can group and maybe we can make a difference.
Most games i've seen won was cause of 8+ healers making the IBGY forgiving and just good pvp. Without those 2 conditions it seems we flop everytime
Phalanxâ-I really appreciate the changes your team has made and the attention you have given us. You said you will wait to see how things play out but are you still going to keep an eye on this post for feedback? Should we still give feedback knowing you are going to sit on the changes for a time might be the better question.
Horde loses AV for years and nobody bats an eye. "That's just how it is." and "Blacklist it."
Alliance lose AV for a pre-patch and it's suddenly the BG being too heavily tuned to one side is now a problem.
Perhaps how you fight AV has to change with the times.
07/30/2018 06:03 PMPosted by
Vaknosh
Horde loses AV for years and nobody bats an eye. "That's just how it is." and "Blacklist it."
Alliance lose AV for a pre-patch and it's suddenly the BG being too heavily tuned to one side is now a problem.
Perhaps how you fight AV has to change with the times.
Yet I've heard people say if horde just defended for years, they actually have an advantage.
1 Like
07/30/2018 05:59 PMPosted by
Krienn
For those of us complaining about the horde always winning, im telling you it has absolutely nothing to do with the changes being made. The horde has changed their strategy and is doing a way better job at staying grouped and properly sending the right number of players to back cap.
Alliance, we have not been as organized. Phalanx is keeping an eye on the bg for this reason so he/she can properly assess the changes which is wise imo.
I have lost more games than I have won but i have still won. When we do win, we normally have a good leader doing raid warnings now and then in addition to solid players using their heads and going where they need to go.
Often times it comes down to the horde having a massive amount of healers as compared to ally. In no way do I see the changes, however, being the determining factor to why we lose.
Iâve been running 5 man groups all week and seem to have had a bit more luck than some of us. If you want to run together, let me know and we can group and maybe we can make a difference.
Most games i've seen won was cause of 8+ healers making the IBGY forgiving and just good pvp. Without those 2 conditions it seems we flop everytime
Yeah and often times they stack ibgy instead and we canât push past them. My strat would be to try to organize our team to the point where we could fall back and let the horde push through field and stack shb. If we canât beat a stronger team, we need to divide them. We can attempt to slip past mini choke and either occupy ibgy or push south to stack a tower. We might sacrifice a bunker depending on how well horde stacks and we back cap, but it divides their team up where we donât fight a massive losing battle when they have a gy to their back. If we can divide ourselves properly between back cap and offense, we tend to do better in those situations.
But taking ibgy is key and stacking with heals works most of the time.
1 Like
07/30/2018 06:03 PMPosted by
Vaknosh
Horde loses AV for years and nobody bats an eye. "That's just how it is." and "Blacklist it."
Alliance lose AV for a pre-patch and it's suddenly the BG being too heavily tuned to one side is now a problem.
Perhaps how you fight AV has to change with the times.
Yet I've heard people say if horde just defended for years, they actually have an advantage.
Exactly lol. We are seeing it in action now. I love the challenge
1 Like
07/30/2018 02:53 PMPosted by
Phalanx
We've seen a dip in Alliance win rates, but want to give them time to re-adjust and strategize after the changes. We'll continue to monitor things and make changes where necessary.
I mean, Alliance had a pretty disgusting win rate in AV (And IoC) for years. It's nice that their one dimensional zerg strat doesn't really work anymore.
07/30/2018 06:03 PMPosted by
Vaknosh
Horde loses AV for years and nobody bats an eye. "That's just how it is." and "Blacklist it."
Alliance lose AV for a pre-patch and it's suddenly the BG being too heavily tuned to one side is now a problem.
Perhaps how you fight AV has to change with the times.
^ This.
Horde loses AV for years? That was a terrain advantage for Alliance and Horde never lost this much that I can ever remember in over 12 years. Again stop bull!@#$ting everyone in here.
Look at the situation in AV right now. I can't even join a single game of AV that hasn't already started and been lost. Whats the strategy to deal with that? They are over when I get there every single time.
"Oh horde just have a better strategy than Alliance now get gud kid hurrr hurrr hurrrrrr"
Grow the %^-* up. Neither side was in anywhere near this bad shape in the prepatch until now. Even the first couple of days of prepatch when AV only lasted 2 minutes long, horde were still winning fairly often. It was basically just RNG for those first 2 days to see which team had more geared players than the other. I actually lost 4 AVs in a row because the Horde team could just get there and burn down the boss faster. Many games I won in those first couple of days too. It wasn't balanced and it wasn't what it was supposed to be and it got hotfixed.
Not buying this strategy excuse at all it wouldn't have been 100% losses before I joined eventually I would have joined a team that wasn't completely braindead if this was all about strategy.
Enjoy the free honor and have fun with your little horde !@#$%^-*!@ in this thread.
Why can't you just bring back old av and just reinvent isle of conquest? Have non of this reneforcement garbage and let players fight korrak the ice troll, cap snowfall graveyard when no on wants too, summon the ram/wolf riders and the boss'. Av was a lot more meaningful in vanilla wow than the changes you make to it, to make it good again.
07/30/2018 02:53 PMPosted by
Phalanx
Isle of Conquest
We've identified an issue with the Keep Cannons dealing too much damage to vehicles. We believe this is causing defense to be stronger than intended. We are going to significantly reduce the damage the Keep Cannons deal to vehicles, but still retain their power against players.
I'll test those changes out once they go live. Thanks again!
Everybody knows Horde has the terrain advantage in AV. It is MUCH easier to defend Galv, IBT and graveyard because they are all next to one another. THe alliance equivalents are all spread out making it harder to mount a defense.
Also, the bridge choke point is useless when the Horde has the advantage in defending all their towers, and the alliance has no advantage in defending SHB and IWB. Once the Horde has the reinforcement advantage granted them from easily taking SHB/GY then there's no incentive for them to even go to the bridge. At that point, the Horde just hangs back since the burden is all on the Alliance.
And don't act like this disadvantage begun with prepatch. Legion gave the Horde way more wins. Prepatch just exacerbated the problem to ridiculous levels.
07/30/2018 04:17 PMPosted by
Alkari
I have played many games of Isle and AV since the changes, and overall I think you are moving things in a positive direction. I have had several games where people communicated strategy in chat - this is awesome, encourage this! I have a couple points of feedback and improvement for the experience.
- Every game of AV I've played has come down to reinforcements. On the one hand, this has led to some epic play that I have never seen before, including pitched battles for the mines, teams of rogues going to cap mines, or tactical retreats to avoid feeding the enemy resources. However, I think the "default" win condition should be for a team to successfully complete the map.
- The fact that the AV hearthstone is still in the game is weird. It is a huge advantage if people realize it exists but frankly it seems like an obsolete mechanic. Either remove it or standardize it as an extra action button every player can see by default with a long cooldown
- Along those lines, the default UI should communicate better the epic, strategic status of the game. How long til a bunker caps? What is our status for upgrading troop armor? Status for Ivus? Visibility would encourage participation, and these events can break zerg v zerg stalemates.
- Isle games still proceed with far less interaction between teams then I would like. There are still games where I will go the entire time without really having any kind of interesting pvp engagement
- In general, the game does not do a good job communicating what various mechanics in these BG's do. An epic experience is multi-layered, which means a certain level of complexity needs to be communicated to the player. Have you considered a "tip of the day" for specific BG loading screens. IE, "Your faction Captain will periodically cast a powerful buff on your team." or "The workshop has bombs you can run to the enemy gate to damage it quickly even if your vehicles are destroyed!" Or, perhaps some kind of "yell" by your team general could announce what something good/bad happening means
I would actually like to see a dungeon journal, once the community get strats that become common knowledge etc.
07/30/2018 02:53 PMPosted by
Phalanx
The Siege Engine will now be immune to roots and snares.
Would it be possible to make root spells snare a siege engine instead? Total immunity to slows seems like it would be too strong, and it would be cool thematically for them to power through them. EG, imagine siege tank with druid vines/dk chains/etc.. wrapped around its axles; it slows a bit but eventually tears them apart.
This would make the vehicle feel more powerful since you could see it countering roots (as opposed to it happening by fiat) while still nerfing slows.
After turning in resources for 20 minutes of the game, I have realized if anything is changed can there be a larger repeatable option for turning in resources. Especially for flight masters. After clicking on Wing Commander Guse and her dialogue 90 times a match I jump off of Snowfall GY.
I feel with how lopsided the wins tilted towards horde are now, there has got to be another explanation then git gud.
07/30/2018 02:53 PMPosted by
Phalanx
Thanks for the lively discussion, everyone! Some updates:
Alterac Valley
We feel Alterac Valley is in a pretty decent spot. We've seen a dip in Alliance win rates, but want to give them time to re-adjust and strategize after the changes. We'll continue to monitor things and make changes where necessary.
Yeah gotta give them time to figure out how to beeline properly, and do what Horde are doing on that side of the map but mirrored. Iceblood -> SHB might still be advantageous since captains aren't in play right now (for res purposes, its rather close). One really good thing about the Epic BGs is that people are used to seeing them more frequently, so they learn what's optimal and begin to gameplan. With the old system, you'd see AV so little that players wouldn't care enough to come up with a strat for future games. Really appreciate the attention given to AV/IOC
Edit: Just got out of a 3am AV. One hour long. Some restraint was shown in pushing to Iceblood so I won one as Alliance. Yay!
I donât really see any benefit for alliance to continue to queue for epic BGs. Why queue for an 80% chance of an AV loss and very little honor in games that will take 1-2 hours? I can play about 5 random BGs in that same time and get far more honor and probably even win at least a couple of them.
Unless they start to give huge honor bonuses I suspect horde queue times will go over 30 minutes for epic BGs.
Unless they start to give huge honor bonuses I suspect horde queue times will go over 30 minutes for epic BGs.
It's getting there:
https://imgur.com/a/MGhknxn