I'm not sure why you're making IOC faster? My games already end in ~10 minutes and defending was already not a thing that happened.
I was digging through how to summon the other bonus units in AV, and supposedly the War Riders take 25 wolves and 25 ram hides. Infantry rush has similar requirements from the mines. Both are totally infeasible to summon in a normal-length match(30-60 min in my experience), without an inordinate amount of players devoted to the task. War riders don't seem to stand where they used to in home base, though I may have just beat the War Rider to the spawn point, as I've seen them summoned before.
As much as I love seeing Lok, I would really like to see strategic drops of infantry rushes/war riders again. Alongside that, revamping the way in which summoned units are directed. According to players in matches I've been with, it's impossible to fulfill the old requirement to acquire the Insignia to give commands to Lok/Infantry rushes(if they were summoned), due to no longer being able to attain 999/1000 exalted.
Not sure if the non-Lok summons are on the radar for tuning of requirements, but would love to see them updated!
As much as I love seeing Lok, I would really like to see strategic drops of infantry rushes/war riders again. Alongside that, revamping the way in which summoned units are directed. According to players in matches I've been with, it's impossible to fulfill the old requirement to acquire the Insignia to give commands to Lok/Infantry rushes(if they were summoned), due to no longer being able to attain 999/1000 exalted.
Not sure if the non-Lok summons are on the radar for tuning of requirements, but would love to see them updated!
Are you guys going to listen to feedback about the recall trinket? I can't get the rank 6 trinket anymore on new characters, but people who already have rank 6 still have theirs.
The stats need to be updated so it's not horrible for your damage to leave it on. Please update the recall trinket and allow exalted players to get rank 6 again. Many people use this to help defend the base and it wins games.
The stats need to be updated so it's not horrible for your damage to leave it on. Please update the recall trinket and allow exalted players to get rank 6 again. Many people use this to help defend the base and it wins games.
The base canons in IoC need to stop being repairable at some point so a team can actually get siege vehicles to the enemy base with reasonable health to break turtles.
IoC in general just takes so long when one team turtles up and is able to keep at least one of the resource generating hubs.
The amount of honor rewarded also just doesn't seem like enough for epic bgs compared to regular ones, especially considering AV favors alliance and IoC is generally a toss up. Spending a lot of time in a bg and losing feels pretty bad when the rewards are the similar to the regular bgs.
IoC in general just takes so long when one team turtles up and is able to keep at least one of the resource generating hubs.
The amount of honor rewarded also just doesn't seem like enough for epic bgs compared to regular ones, especially considering AV favors alliance and IoC is generally a toss up. Spending a lot of time in a bg and losing feels pretty bad when the rewards are the similar to the regular bgs.
07/30/2018 03:39 PMPosted by ShiyolangleyI'm not sure why you're making IOC faster? My games already end in ~10 minutes and defending was already not a thing that happened.
my games are always 2 hours because alliance turtles and gets double our hks, but we still win due to taking quarry and refinery and devoting a small force to defending each the entire match so it's not ninjaed.
I think the honor should be increased for winning an epic BG. If one horde and one alliance player play a whole round of a long AV match (1 hour+) and they both participate in objectives/battle/combat etc., whoever is on the winning side will only get like 100 honor more than the loser. Feels like you are winning for pride right now.
I have played many games of Isle and AV since the changes, and overall I think you are moving things in a positive direction. I have had several games where people communicated strategy in chat - this is awesome, encourage this! I have a couple points of feedback and improvement for the experience.
- Every game of AV I've played has come down to reinforcements. On the one hand, this has led to some epic play that I have never seen before, including pitched battles for the mines, teams of rogues going to cap mines, or tactical retreats to avoid feeding the enemy resources. However, I think the "default" win condition should be for a team to successfully complete the map.
- The fact that the AV hearthstone is still in the game is weird. It is a huge advantage if people realize it exists but frankly it seems like an obsolete mechanic. Either remove it or standardize it as an extra action button every player can see by default with a long cooldown
- Along those lines, the default UI should communicate better the epic, strategic status of the game. How long til a bunker caps? What is our status for upgrading troop armor? Status for Ivus? Visibility would encourage participation, and these events can break zerg v zerg stalemates.
- Isle games still proceed with far less interaction between teams then I would like. There are still games where I will go the entire time without really having any kind of interesting pvp engagement
- In general, the game does not do a good job communicating what various mechanics in these BG's do. An epic experience is multi-layered, which means a certain level of complexity needs to be communicated to the player. Have you considered a "tip of the day" for specific BG loading screens. IE, "Your faction Captain will periodically cast a powerful buff on your team." or "The workshop has bombs you can run to the enemy gate to damage it quickly even if your vehicles are destroyed!" Or, perhaps some kind of "yell" by your team general could announce what something good/bad happening means
- Every game of AV I've played has come down to reinforcements. On the one hand, this has led to some epic play that I have never seen before, including pitched battles for the mines, teams of rogues going to cap mines, or tactical retreats to avoid feeding the enemy resources. However, I think the "default" win condition should be for a team to successfully complete the map.
- The fact that the AV hearthstone is still in the game is weird. It is a huge advantage if people realize it exists but frankly it seems like an obsolete mechanic. Either remove it or standardize it as an extra action button every player can see by default with a long cooldown
- Along those lines, the default UI should communicate better the epic, strategic status of the game. How long til a bunker caps? What is our status for upgrading troop armor? Status for Ivus? Visibility would encourage participation, and these events can break zerg v zerg stalemates.
- Isle games still proceed with far less interaction between teams then I would like. There are still games where I will go the entire time without really having any kind of interesting pvp engagement
- In general, the game does not do a good job communicating what various mechanics in these BG's do. An epic experience is multi-layered, which means a certain level of complexity needs to be communicated to the player. Have you considered a "tip of the day" for specific BG loading screens. IE, "Your faction Captain will periodically cast a powerful buff on your team." or "The workshop has bombs you can run to the enemy gate to damage it quickly even if your vehicles are destroyed!" Or, perhaps some kind of "yell" by your team general could announce what something good/bad happening means
07/30/2018 04:16 PMPosted by VarolynI think the honor should be increased for winning an epic BG. If one horde and one alliance player play a whole round of a long AV match (1 hour+) and they both participate in objectives/battle/combat etc., whoever is on the winning side will only get like 100 honor more than the loser. Feels like you are winning for pride right now.
then why try to win? they should keep the 450 bonus for winning, but increase honor for objectives. Maybe increase to 550 or 600 for win. 200-300 for end of match for losing team. Feels awful when there is a 100honor difference between you and the losing team and you fought out a 1hr battle. Makes no sense. There should be incentive to win and do objectives.
07/30/2018 02:53 PMPosted by PhalanxThanks for the lively discussion, everyone! Some updates:
Alterac Valley
We feel Alterac Valley is in a pretty decent spot. We've seen a dip in Alliance win rates, but want to give them time to re-adjust and strategize after the changes. We'll continue to monitor things and make changes where necessary.
We realize players have a passion for some of Alterac Valley's classic mechanics (Ivus, Lokholar). While we have no immediate changes to announce yet, its something we may adjust in the future.
Isle of Conquest
We've identified an issue with the Keep Cannons dealing too much damage to vehicles. We believe this is causing defense to be stronger than intended. We are going to significantly reduce the damage the Keep Cannons deal to vehicles, but still retain their power against players.
Some other additional changes:
- When a gate is destroyed, that faction will lose 50 Reinforcements. This will give offense an option of destroying more gates if the opposing team is "turtling."
- The Siege Engine will now be immune to roots and snares.
- Health of the Glaive Towers and Demolishers moderately increased.
- Damage and siege damage of the Airship Cannons significantly increased.
We hope to have these changes live soon, and appreciate your continued feedback.
Thank You!
I've had alliance teams win Alterac Valley maybe twice since the most recent changes? I've gotten 4 Alterac Valleys today, and all 4 of them were not new matches, they were already in progress and everyone on the Alliance team was just quitting because they had already lost the match so quickly.
Every single one.
This isn't a "dip in Alliance win rates" lol. Please don't talk about the state of a bg like it's in a decent spot right now when you clearly haven't even been playing it on Alliance teams.
Go on in and join 4 Alterac Valleys in a row and your team is already losing badly when you get there and spend 20-30 minutes losing the match to get barely any honor for the time you spent losing and come back and tell us what a decent spot Alterac Valley is in right now. Go on, please. Tell us how decent that spot it's in is.
Sounds like a personal problem if you're alliance and you cant win AV :^)
IOC
-All mechs are rather squishy.
--Glaives can be taken care of by a single rogue rather handily. I understand that the long range siege mech with heavy damage is suppose to be less durable but a single player should not be able to eliminate 1 in 10 seconds. A small group sure, but not 1.
--Demolishers deal decent damage to players but are rather worthless for actually besieging the opponent. I cannot tell if they do siege damage because Tower Cannons do 20% or more of their HP per hit along with players attacking and slowing them, mean Demos are never able to reach the gates. I would at least make cannons do a fixed 5-10% so Demos can make it to the gate unless focus fired by multiple cannon volleys instead of just 1-2. Either this reduced cannon damage to mechs or double their current health.
--Siege Engine is mostly alright but suffers heavily from what Demolishers suffer from in terms of besieging. Tower Cannons do far too much damage to justify the use of the Siege Engine for siege. Siege Engines do enough damage and are tanky enough vs. players though so a significant buff to their health would make them incredibly powerful vs. players and be disheartening to fight against. So I would reiterate reducing the damage either Tower Cannons do or reduce the damage siege vehicles take from cannons.
This is the main grievance I see with the battleground, the mechs and cannon interactions with the mechs.
-Alterac Valley
--Mines sometimes glitch where the Kobolds do not spawn and so mines cannot be claimed. Mines can be the difference in reinforcement games so this is not a minor issue.
--Wing Commanders are highly unlikely to make it back to bases. I understand the point is to defend the Wing Commanders but with the current strategy there is almost no chance to successfully escort. Aside from the meta strategy, the Wing Commanders also engage Rams/Wolves along with guards along the way and do minimal damage which can be annoying if you go on ahead to clear the road of players. I would suggest either an aggro range reduction on these NPCs or increased health so they can be helped as opposed to dying rather quickly.
--Others have mentioned, but with the current Meta it is difficult to get certain guard upgrades such as Wolf/Ram riders. Could it be possible to tweak the quest so the NPCs in the caves near Frostwolf/Stormpike main bases drop hides to be used for saddles? I would think this would make this objective more plausible and be achieved easily so the wolf/ram guards can take the field.
--I do not remember how powerful Lok/Groot were suppose to be but the damage on these giants seems laughable. Even without buffs, they both hit roughly 20% of a players HP with a 3 second cast spell. Easily healable damage. I know they need to get a killstreak going, but with how Kiteable and minimal damage these bosses do it is sometimes a let down. The biggest strength of these giants is the fear factor/distraction not necessarily their power. Of course, with people actually wanting to play AV again people likely do not fall prey to these giants.
Others have likely said what they see as flaws or potential improvements.
-----
Overall, I love that these Epic BGs are recieving some love such as the reinforcement increase and continuous attention towards mechs in IoC. I hope continued changes are to come and if BGs like Strands or Wintergrasp return that vehicles are looked at again there as well.
-All mechs are rather squishy.
--Glaives can be taken care of by a single rogue rather handily. I understand that the long range siege mech with heavy damage is suppose to be less durable but a single player should not be able to eliminate 1 in 10 seconds. A small group sure, but not 1.
--Demolishers deal decent damage to players but are rather worthless for actually besieging the opponent. I cannot tell if they do siege damage because Tower Cannons do 20% or more of their HP per hit along with players attacking and slowing them, mean Demos are never able to reach the gates. I would at least make cannons do a fixed 5-10% so Demos can make it to the gate unless focus fired by multiple cannon volleys instead of just 1-2. Either this reduced cannon damage to mechs or double their current health.
--Siege Engine is mostly alright but suffers heavily from what Demolishers suffer from in terms of besieging. Tower Cannons do far too much damage to justify the use of the Siege Engine for siege. Siege Engines do enough damage and are tanky enough vs. players though so a significant buff to their health would make them incredibly powerful vs. players and be disheartening to fight against. So I would reiterate reducing the damage either Tower Cannons do or reduce the damage siege vehicles take from cannons.
This is the main grievance I see with the battleground, the mechs and cannon interactions with the mechs.
-Alterac Valley
--Mines sometimes glitch where the Kobolds do not spawn and so mines cannot be claimed. Mines can be the difference in reinforcement games so this is not a minor issue.
--Wing Commanders are highly unlikely to make it back to bases. I understand the point is to defend the Wing Commanders but with the current strategy there is almost no chance to successfully escort. Aside from the meta strategy, the Wing Commanders also engage Rams/Wolves along with guards along the way and do minimal damage which can be annoying if you go on ahead to clear the road of players. I would suggest either an aggro range reduction on these NPCs or increased health so they can be helped as opposed to dying rather quickly.
--Others have mentioned, but with the current Meta it is difficult to get certain guard upgrades such as Wolf/Ram riders. Could it be possible to tweak the quest so the NPCs in the caves near Frostwolf/Stormpike main bases drop hides to be used for saddles? I would think this would make this objective more plausible and be achieved easily so the wolf/ram guards can take the field.
--I do not remember how powerful Lok/Groot were suppose to be but the damage on these giants seems laughable. Even without buffs, they both hit roughly 20% of a players HP with a 3 second cast spell. Easily healable damage. I know they need to get a killstreak going, but with how Kiteable and minimal damage these bosses do it is sometimes a let down. The biggest strength of these giants is the fear factor/distraction not necessarily their power. Of course, with people actually wanting to play AV again people likely do not fall prey to these giants.
Others have likely said what they see as flaws or potential improvements.
-----
Overall, I love that these Epic BGs are recieving some love such as the reinforcement increase and continuous attention towards mechs in IoC. I hope continued changes are to come and if BGs like Strands or Wintergrasp return that vehicles are looked at again there as well.
now its 5 out of 5 AVs with Alliance already lost before I get there. Gotta keep these changes live, can't let the horde stop farming that free honor ;)
Really decent spot right now. Yup.
Really decent spot right now. Yup.
07/30/2018 05:13 PMPosted by Faelindranow its 5 out of 5 AVs with Alliance already lost before I get there. Gotta keep these changes live, can't let the horde stop farming that free honor ;)
Really decent spot right now. Yup.
stop giving up after first team fight/first bunker burned. There's 700 resources, but alliance always jumps ship the second something goes wrong.
6 out of 6 AVs today. lol. I just want to see how many AVs I can get in a row before I finally join one that hasn't started yet.
"pretty decent spot right now"
ahahahahaha
"pretty decent spot right now"
ahahahahaha
Need to significantly increase the time it takes for towers/bunkers to burn in AV. They burn before anybody can mount a defense.
Welcome to horde in av for years! Problem is, it wasnât blizzards problem. Horde just had no concept how to play. Now, Alliance need to adapt.07/30/2018 05:30 PMPosted by Faelindra6 out of 6 AVs today. lol. I just want to see how many AVs I can get in a row before I finally join one that hasn't started yet.
"pretty decent spot right now"
ahahahahaha
07/30/2018 05:26 PMPosted by Dolsonn07/30/2018 05:13 PMPosted by Faelindranow its 5 out of 5 AVs with Alliance already lost before I get there. Gotta keep these changes live, can't let the horde stop farming that free honor ;)
Really decent spot right now. Yup.
stop giving up after first team fight/first bunker burned. There's 700 resources, but alliance always jumps ship the second something goes wrong.
Giving up? Every single AV i've joined today is over before I get there.
I am not joining fresh AVs I am joining complete !@#$shows with 10-15 people less on my team than horde because everyone has been quitting and it's making me join these AVs to try and balance out the teams.
The most recent one had horde with about 600 reinforcements and Alliance had 50 left. I literally just alt tabbed and waited for it to end for 175 honor.
AV is a complete joke right now. Anyone who says otherwise is either completely full of it or are just desperately trying to delay the eventual hotfix so they can farm as much honor as possible while it's free because they play horde.
07/30/2018 05:36 PMPosted by FaelindraThe most recent one had horde with about 600 reinforcements and Alliance had 50 left. I literally just alt tabbed and waited for it to end for 175 honor.
I wonder why you lost then /s
Alliance has the biggest advantage in AV because of DB bridge choke, as everyone knows and you can hold that and farm people as they trickle in to your base while the archers assist you.
Unfortunately, we burn one bunkers and you babies cry and leave match and the people that refill afk like you.
Why are you losing? Well there's a common demoninator every match.
07/30/2018 05:49 PMPosted by Dolsonn07/30/2018 05:36 PMPosted by FaelindraThe most recent one had horde with about 600 reinforcements and Alliance had 50 left. I literally just alt tabbed and waited for it to end for 175 honor.
I wonder why you lost then /s
Alliance has the biggest advantage in AV because of DB bridge choke, as everyone knows and you can hold that and farm people as they trickle in to your base while the archers assist you.
Unfortunately, we burn one bunkers and you babies cry and leave match and the people that refill afk like you.
Why are you losing? Well there's a common demoninator every match.
So kill 12 horde to every 1 alliance death then, try to retake mines.... Yeah maybe 2 horde to 1 alliance death if we're lucky
For those of us complaining about the horde always winning, im telling you it has absolutely nothing to do with the changes being made. The horde has changed their strategy and is doing a way better job at staying grouped and properly sending the right number of players to back cap.
Alliance, we have not been as organized. Phalanx is keeping an eye on the bg for this reason so he/she can properly assess the changes which is wise imo.
I have lost more games than I have won but i have still won. When we do win, we normally have a good leader doing raid warnings now and then in addition to solid players using their heads and going where they need to go.
Often times it comes down to the horde having a massive amount of healers as compared to ally. In no way do I see the changes, however, being the determining factor to why we lose.
Iâve been running 5 man groups all week and seem to have had a bit more luck than some of us. If you want to run together, let me know and we can group and maybe we can make a difference.
Alliance, we have not been as organized. Phalanx is keeping an eye on the bg for this reason so he/she can properly assess the changes which is wise imo.
I have lost more games than I have won but i have still won. When we do win, we normally have a good leader doing raid warnings now and then in addition to solid players using their heads and going where they need to go.
Often times it comes down to the horde having a massive amount of healers as compared to ally. In no way do I see the changes, however, being the determining factor to why we lose.
Iâve been running 5 man groups all week and seem to have had a bit more luck than some of us. If you want to run together, let me know and we can group and maybe we can make a difference.