This, when I started going down the tree with my guildies, I stopped at the first node and just realized how much Demo would gap Destro with the shard spending alone. After reading the rest of the tree nothing really compensates, and some things even hurt Destro further
2 Likes
Functionality Questions
Diabolic Ritual
- Cruelty of Kerxan states that our major cdâs grant Diabolic Ritual. How does this function if ritual is already active?
- Infernal Machine - Does this interact with Soulburn or is there a denylist for this talent?
Touch of Rancora
Are all Soul Shard consuming abilities included or is there a denylist? I feel that this should only apply to things like Hand of Gulâdan, Chaos Bolt or Rain of Fire to remove the micromanagement of the 30% buff.
Infernal Bulwark
Is the maximum amount increase an additional 10% of our maximum health or 10% added to the absorb that soul leech provides?
Ruination
The tooltip reads eerily similar to Hand of Gulâdan. Is this simply an empowered Hand of Gulâdan with chaos effects or will it function differently based on the specialization we are in?
As a long term demo fanatic I love the diabolist themes and the big demons.
I do have questions about Touch of Rancora. Can this talent work with Vilefield, Bilescourge Bombers and GFG, how does it work with NP? Do we get the buff upon gaining Diabolic Ritual or after it expires and turns into Demonic Art?
If Iâm reading Infernal Machine correctly it works similar to NP in that its 1 sec per soul spending cast, not per shard. Iâm not a big fan of this as it was quite the flop for NP, but napkin math points to it giving you more value over Cruelty.
Speaking of NP I hope the locks tree will be getting a look at too. NP really, really needs a reworks and the whole tree could use a pruning. But this is a topic for another time.
Overall this hero tree looks pretty solid for Demo. For destro not so much, mixing cataclysm with a single target focused summon that presumable cannot benefit from havoc is a weird choice.
Not to bad at all on the Demo side.
Destro - forced Cata, not so much.
I can only say this for all the new trees.
If itâs not in the 1st 4 nodes of the class trees, you could be forcing players for 3 Xpacs to use the single talent spec.
Leaving nods dead or unused for all but new players. If you make the required talents baseline and tweak the main trees this fixes the issue.
2 Likes
Uh what?
This is why feedback on the forums is so wild.
Excellent tree, just a couple things I wanted to give feedback on.
-
People have already talked about it, but with the current state of the Destruction tree being forced to take Cataclysm is awful for builds. Making RoF baseline and Cataclysm take its place would be very appreciated.
-
Having to use Cataclysm and Havoc in Single Target, the latter just for a nearly unnoticeable 5% damage buff, feels bad.
-
Mandatory CDR on GFG kinda sucks. Maybe have the talent buff Bilescourge Bombers or something instead, a spell thatâs almost never taken, fits the theme and is a lot closer to Cataclysm in functionality?
-
Compared to the Mother of Chaos giving Shadowbolt Volley channels replacing your filler and Pit Lords giving an empowered Hand of Gulâdan replacing your main spender, the Overlord giving a simple damage buff is boring. Having it instead empower another spell, like your next Demonbolt or Conflagrate, could be cool.
-
The name is a cool callback to Destructionâs special version of Fel Domination, but Flames of Xoroth is a really boring talent. Ideally replace.
Looking forward to seeing the rest of the Warlock trees, this really exceeded my expectations.
2 Likes
I like the look of the tree, but for demo, absolutely see most getting the center path so Grimoire lines up with tyrants. Every single time. Might just make Grimoire at this point 1.30 min CD and make the talent something else. My 2 Cents. Cheers.
Please consider changing the name to âDemoniacâ or at least mentioning it in one of the talents
Diabolists have NEVER been featured in-game and only serve as a WC3 callback and are centered upon Eredar.
Demoniacs are from the RPG and have been referenced in-game a few times and would canonically be the oldest warlocks on Azeroth proper.
I think Demoniacs, and pre-Elf Troll lore thus, deserve a spotlight.
3 Likes
Iâm a mostly open-world non-instanced player that has mained Demo exclusively since vanilla.
Not really sure what to think of Diabolic Ritual⌠it sounds like Nether Portal 2.0. I like the idea of commanding lots of demons, but a random demon every once in a while doesnât quite thrill me I guess. I only briefly had Nether Portal during Shadowlands.
Demonfire Barrage sounds pretty cool. Excited for that.
Ruination might be cool or not depending on how it looks. On paper, it kinda just sounds like a boosted Hand of Guldan.
Everything else is just percent buffs and stuff.
So on first glance, this kinda seems to double-down/overlap on stuff we already have. Which I guess is fine, but doesnât seem that exciting. But itâs REALLY hard for me to tell from a text preview, so I am keeping an open mind.
It might just be that Soul Harvester ends up being more for me.
What I really want personally⌠is to get away from the felguard and be able to use some of the other pets like Voidwalker/Succubi. Or maybe other new pets as mains. They can just be skins really and act like the felguard. Or maybe the way to do it is to have 2 main pets, so I can have felguard and succubi out at once. That would feel really different.
2 Likes
The CDR on GFG feels bad if and only if youâre playing Grand Warlockâs Design. Without GWD, the CDR is amazing as it syncs GFG with Tyrant. If youâre playing GWD, then it re-desyncs them.
Basically, GWD is dead for Demo Diabolists as of right now. This isnât necessarily a bad thing. It just needs to not be dead for Soul Harvester
You get the entire hero tree, not just one path of it
Iâm starting to notice these Hero Talents while are available to 2 specs are more favourable to one rather then being great for both from what has been shown to us so far.
Diabolist clearly favours Demonology and really doubles down on its spec fantasy which is honestly great.
Iâd assume Hellcaller will favour Destruction and Soul Harvester for Affliction.
While yes they can choose the latter choice maybe for preference or playstyle, example Diabolist requires Cataclysm or literally the node Abyssal Dominion is useless, assuming this Hero Tree will be for Destruction players who use Cataclysm as a preference.
I think though this is the flaw trying to have Dual Specs for each Tree, as balancing it clearly is going to be an issue.
Donât get me wrong, Diabolist seems great for Demo, but now more intrigued to see how Hellcaller and Soul Harvester pan out.
1 Like
- General theme is pretty good. I think most warlocks are going to welcome the idea of more pets that are more interesting than the standard ones. More demons = more fun, generally. The only problem I foresee is, these randomly spawned pets need to actually obey pet commands like Follow and Attack and Passive, so they arenât just doing whatever they want.
- There is definitely way more here for Demo than there is for Destruction. Destruction feels very much like an after-thought. Like Gloom of Nathreza sounds amazing for Demo, but itâs the most minor buff possible for Destro that might not even work in single target.
- Demonfire Barrage should be castable while moving. And then do the same thing for Channel Demonfire. Donât fight it, just do it.
- If Abyssal Dominion requires Cataclysm to even do anything, that means Cataclysm is going to become baseline, right? Because it already needed to be. At a bare minimum, Inferno vs Cataclysm never should have been a choice.
- Ruination: For Demo, how is this any different from Hand of Gulâdan? For Destro, what additional benefit is there from the Wild Imps? Surely thereâs something that ties into the spec.
- There is almost nothing here that interacts with Destroâs kit at all, other than replacing one ability with another for a single cast every now and then. Seriously consider baking in some kind of interactions that make actual Destro things happen, rather than just replacing buttons with other buttons that donât really change much.
5 Likes
Name
When by the first time I saw titles like âHellcallerâ and âDiabolistâ the first thought I had that someone get inspired too much from Diablo game and this is not Warcraft anymore.
Even if I google it and found few examples from WC3 that makes such titles more logical I still got feeling that there is not enough of Fel, Fire, Demons, Twisting Nether theme in this titles.
Gameplay
Priest Oracle but in DPS format and with no fishing or cooldownâŚ
Idea of access to more unique demons sounds cool, story behind also makes sense but
3 type of demons (with their own unique effects) which are cycling is same order during the fight sound like something not fun but what you want to optimize and canât control it.
Personally would find it more interesting if there was no unique effects behind each type of tree demons as there always will be many situations when your next demon is not with effect you would like to receive.
As someone with a demonology alt this looks amazing, however it has the same issue that a lot of other released hero talents have.
It is painfully obvious that it was designed for one spec and then half-assed into the other spec without a lot of thought for the specific mechanics. We have seen the same thing with the Dark ranger which is clearly for marksman and shoehorned into Beast Master and also in the Oracle priest (Thanksfully now withdrawn) where it was clearly designed around Disc with some holy thrown on top at the last minute
In this case Diabolist was clearly built for Demonology and nothing in the mechanics or spells really says Destro.
1 Like
Exactly. I personally prefer playing Destro, but fact is⌠I love this tree for Demo.
I donât want to see it go away from what it is now for Demo, but how the hell do you make this viable and fun for Destro, that is a question I have no answer for. The trigger for Rituals just is completely in favor of Demo, and its not even close.
And the rest of the tree really feels like Destro was an afterthought. I dislike saying things like that⌠devs I love you but thats just how I feel about it.
1 Like
My radical solution which I am sure is NOT in the blizzard playbook would be to get rid of the whole âTwo specs hero tree conceptâ and make each one a single spec choice. Change the names to somthing like: War Within Talents and just say it is part of the overall spec. The only case where I think there would be big pushback on this would be mages as Frostfire seems decent for both specs but currently that is 1 out of 14 hero trees where both specs are getting decent fantasy and throughput without twisting lore into pretzels.
1 Like
That would remove a lot of the fantasy choice for players.
Plus, Frostfire isnât the only tree I believe works for itâs two specs.
In diabolist case, I think issues that need attention are;
#1- ritual trigger. Soul shard generation is extremely fast on Demo, and abysmally slow on Destro, creating the biggest immediate problem.
#2- lackluster support talents. What would Destro want to do with a Shadowbolt volley that has zero interaction with them, or be forced to cast havoc in ST for minor but mandatory gains, or even spec into Cataclysm for ST?
1 Like
With Nether Portal having interaction with diabolic ritual, in addition to Tyrant, it would be nice to see some iteration on nether portal. Itâs disconnected from our tree and other cooldowns right now and in an abysmal state damage wise too.
YEEEES! Completely agree, now I need this xD
2 Likes