Feedback: Demon Hunters

In Development The War Within Beta Test
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I really feel we need a Ranged Demon Hunter spec for a 3rd spec. to date Druid is the only class with a tank and a range spec in the game. It’s been 20 years and its still the only one. This Forum post is a perfect example of how to do it and make it fit with the lore.

I do not like Aldrachi Reaver, but then i am not a big fan of throw glaive either. I really only use it for pulling when I tank.

Fel-Scarred is pretty cool, ngl. But I really wish it worked with Demonic, not just meta. That would make the gameplay far more interesting.

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i have one feedback right now. delete illuminated sigils or atleast make it only effect offensive sigils like ed and sigil of flames. also make sigil of silence and sigil of chains share a choice node to further reel back our overwhelmingly powerful control.

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Havoc/Fel-Scarred Feedback:

  • Blind Fury and Dancing with Fate become 1 point talents.
  • Isolated Prey, Looks Can Kill become baseline.
  • Inner Demon/Restless Hunter move into Looks Can Kill and the other row 8 choices slide over.

If I try to pick up the talents aligned to Fel-Scarred, then I have no points left to pick up any of the movement talents, or really any other utility. Freeing up 3 points in the middle set of talents would give me a bit more choice.

The bottom block talents just have poor layout, mainly due to Inner Demon/Restless Hunter. You’re kind of forced to take it if you want to get both A Fire Inside and Any Means Necessary if you want to focus on the Fel-Scarred stuff. If I want to lean into Eye Beam and go for Shattered Destiny then I can’t also get Ragefire and that feels bad. I don’t want the default choice to be EB just because of poor layout.

For Fel-Scarred and mainly Demonsurge/Demonic Intensity - Demonsurge is worthless without Demonic Intensity, so leveling up it had absolutely no impact other than the health and armor, and who cares about that. There also needs to be some interplay with just baseline Demon Form.

I think both need some kind of rework. I should be procing Demonsurges in normal Demon Form, and then I should have empowered abilities and larger Demonsurges from Meta.

Burning Blades is weird being tied to Throw Glaive. Once we lose the set bonus, nobody is ever going to pick up anything for Throw Glaive, and isn’t Aldrachi supposed to be the glaive spec anyway? It’s also like a worse version of Burning Wounds. It just feels like a lazy talent.

Monster Rising is kind of bleh. Two passives in a row doesn’t feel great, and it isn’t very exciting either way. I would have like to see some kind of interplay here between abilities, ie Blade Dance does something extra against a target with Immo on it or something.

The visuals overall need to be more flashy as well. The empowered abilities are super muted and barely noticeable, especially in combat with a bunch of stuff happening. All these other classes around me have all these new flashy things and I don’t really get any new flashy effects.

Lastly, it’s been 8 years since Legion and we’re still stuck with the same customization options on the elves and nothing for demons. Not to say anything about not getting any more races added. It sucks to be forced into playing the exact same race with no visual updates for 8 years.

3 Likes
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Long time havoc player here. The currently playstyle with the hero talents feels so bad to play that I contemplate quitting the game. If they were to make the Amirdrassil 2 set a talent I think it would make the spec actually feel like a well designed spec.

2 Likes
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Hello, many of my thoughts echo what has been said in previous posts, so I’ll focus mainly on how I think it’s worth thinking about DH hero specs. Broadly, the way DH plays continues to be fun and dynamic, and with some thematic and mechanical tweaks, it can be quite good in TWW. In summary, I think it would be interesting to borrow a bit more from the Demon Hunters of the past and pull in abilities and concepts from DH bosses and NPCs along with previous set bonuses we’ve come to know to build more into the identity of the class. This has worked wonders for other classes like DK and Mage.

Hero talents

Now, I like how the hero talents attempt to accentuate the duality of the class, with Fel-Scarred focusing more on the Demon and Reaver on the hunter aspects of the class. One is more ‘fast-paced’ and the other is ‘tactical.’ However, I feel this is where the shortcomings start to present themselves: the specs don’t have the same flash and dynamics that some of the other Hero Talents seem to have, and they both feel like they are missing something. Below are some ways I think the specs could be tweaked to emphasize this duality further and build some exciting talents for the class. The examples below are not meant to be exhaustive.

Fel-scarred

I’ll start with Fel-Scarred because this one probably needs less tweaking overall. Unfortunately, it doesn’t do much outside of the base kit. If you like DH, Fel-Scarred is fine, but it doesn’t feel great when these are meant to be Heroic abilities. Specifically, there needs to be more visually exciting aspects applied to the empowered abilities through Demonic Intensity and a few other areas of polish to make it shine and to help players SEE the empowerment. While I don’t think it’s inherently wrong to have hero talents more focused on accentuating what already works, and it does, overall, play quite well, I do think it’s missing some of the excitement it should be generating. Here are some examples:

Lingering Torment: Why not make this a choice node or re-design the ability and take a page out of the boss abilities of Leotheras the Blind instead of just buffing Chaos Strike and Blade Dance? Instead, a ‘Shadow’ of your demon form lingers behind temporarily when meta ends. This Shadow of could function similarly to the DK Dancing Rune Weapon, where it replicates abilities the player uses. It would be interesting if, instead, the shadow casted abilities included some ranged spells (like Chaos Blast or Shadow Bolt volley), providing some additional ranged damage for the DH to plan around for encounters where that would be beneficial.

Demonic Intensity abilities:

  • Sigil of Doom: As something that can only be cast a couple of times during meta, it should do something in addition to improving the damage. I suggest having the sigil also spawn an elemental Flame of Azzinoth, like in the Illidan fight in BT. Have it cast a fel fire blast, adding some additional damage to the dot from the sigil and despawning after the duration of the dot, giving the ability to have some ranged damage potential. This could compensate for situations where the initial target(s) move for whatever reason between the cast of the sigil and its explosion. A name change to Sigil of Azzinoth may help with the themes here; Doom feels more like a warlock spell to me.
  • Abyssal Gaze: In addition to the Eye Beam/Fel Dev, let’s also add a spawn of 1-2 Shadow Demons, again from the Illidan BT fight, that also blasts the target(s) with damage and then crashes into them like in the boss fight. I see this mainly as a straight damage upgrade, but if you do look at the Shadow Demon abilities, they stun as it chases down a target; it could be interesting if a slow could be generated out of Abyssal gaze to help with up-time on Eye Beam, especially in PVP or providing additional kite potential for tanks.
  • Consuming Fire: Should leave a trail of Fel Fire underneath the player’s path. The idea is to synergize with mover havoc builds, the need to constantly move as a tank in M+ but have continued value in ST and standing still. This would be similar to the Felblazed ground ability from the Illysanna Ravencrest fight in Blackrook Hold or, of course, like Illidan in BT.

Aldrachi Reaver

Now, onto Aldrachi Reaver. I’ll be honest: the overall collecting of 6 soul fragments is frustrating and has been stated by other posters, so I won’t get into it too much more. However, I think again that a contributing problem here is the theme. We have some lore on the Aldrachi but haven’t come to know them THAT well. I believe this leads to some barriers in building out what players expect from a DH hero talent tree as recognizable. It is okay to keep something of the Aldrachi as a talent, but I don’t feel there’s enough here to build a hero tree thematically, especially when you see other classes getting recognizable new abilities. Between these two things, that’s what I think is missing here: recognition and flexibility.

Theme (recognition)

  • I suggest that the spec be renamed something like Illidari Reaver or less tied to the Alradchi only in some way. I’m not sure how many players would make the connection between Illidan/DH themes and the Aldrachi unless they played Legion and then read the lore of the Aldrachi artifact.
  • Thrill of the Fight should be renamed Cursed Vision of Sargeras or Vision of the Dark Titan, something along those lines, to call back to Illidan. This is meant to be the final talent in a hero tree; it should be something Demon Hunter-specific. Thrill of the Fight is somewhat DH, but it could apply to any melee. It should fit with the themes of the class. Additionally, when getting what is supposed to be a substantial buff, there should be some visuals to reflect this; I’d love to see some shadows or something surrounding the DH, like Illidan’s Demon Form.
  • Overall, enhanced abilities need some additional love. I would love it if we could again bake some new skills. For example, instead of just increasing the damage of Chaos Strike/Shear, the enhanced version also summons a Parasitic Shadow Demon or applies a Parasitic Wound debuff that can bounce between mobs near each other, providing damage and healing for the DH and echoing the Illidan raid encounters in BC and Legion. Blade Dance/Soul Cleave/Spirit Bomb can be enhanced by launching a Dark Barrage aoe shadow spell like in the BT Illidan encounter, leaving additional dots (possibly compensating for losing the DF Season 3 and 4 set bonus).
  • I would love it if Reaver’s Glaive did something more to Throw Glaive, too; what about it summons a Soul Fragment of Azzinoth, providing a temporary barrier to tanks (Bulwark of Azzinoth) and doing damage for DPS (Chaos Blast and providing a DPS buff)? Thematically, it would be similar to Illidan throwing down his glaives and spawning adds in his encounters. If Throw Glaive is to be the core of this spec, it should be something that feels good to use and provide tangible benefit to the player to plan around.
  • It would be cool to add some talent options that call on Illidari allies, either DHs we know like Kayn/Altruis/Kor’vas/Loramus, etc., or others like the Ashtongue, Naga, or Shivarra.

Gameplay (flexibility)

Using souls and abilities in sequence isn’t bad from a gameplay perspective. Still, I have some concerns and frustration lining this all up with the other CDs DH needs to manage. It doesn’t seem to have the same flexibility. I can’t see why I would pick Aldrachi in most situations and it just feels like as-is, won’t see much use outside of specific conditions. Suggestions:

  • Now, there CAN be some interesting interactions if the talents could be adjusted to allow for the banking of buffs and then use them during burst windows.
  • There really should be a way to control when Reaver’s Glaive is activated.
    • Maybe building the first node in the tree into a usable ability that shatters a special severed soul that enhances certain abilities. When the DH uses the enhanced abilities in sequence, they give the more significant Thrill of the Fight buff.
    • Or it could be something like the old Fodder to the Flame - Spell - World of Warcraft (wowhead.com). Still, instead of randomly spawning, you use an ability to summon a Demon (maybe like Demonic Keystone, to call back to the Sargerite Keystone from Legion). You destroy the demon with Throw Glaive, consume its soul, and provide the enhancements. Once your enhanced abilities are used in sequence, you get the bigger buff; this could couple nicely with some of the previous suggestions to change the name of Thrill of the Fight to Vision of the Dark Titan or similar in that it echoes the way a DH is created in the lore (consume demon heart > see maddening visions).

Conclusion

To close, I want to wrap up by saying these are examples and suggestions that would be interesting to add to the DH class playstyle. I also agree with previous posts that DH needs some cosmetic love. I won’t repeat what’s already been said, but more customization is welcomed and needed to keep the class fresh.

I’m no game designer; I’m just a long-time player who enjoys the DH spec and wants it to reach the heights other classes are gaining in the TWW. Overall, DH continues to be fun to play, but some additions and tweaks are needed to make the class continually exciting in TWW and going forward.

5 Likes
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Greetings.

First and foremost, all of my feedback comes as a Havoc Demon Hunter.

I’d like to link to another thread I did on the class forums, since a lot I want to talk about is already written there: https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/feedback-about-havoc-for-tww/1862915

After testing in Beta I have extended my feedback to the following:

  • Cycle of Hatred builds feel atrocious to play with Inertia and Essence Break. Everything desyncs constantly. Please, change this way this talent works to at least keep the sync with Essence Break (turn Eye Beam into a 20s CD in a somewhat predictable way).
    Essence Break is in direct pathing with Cycle of Hatred. Cycle of Hatred shouldn’t make the gameplay of a talent that’s directly in front worse.
  • Glaive talents have no purpose at all with nothing propping them up and both hero talents emphasizing the usage of either Chaos Strike (Demonic Appetite, getting more souls for Aldrachi Reaver) or Eye Beam (Cycle of Hatred, more Demonic windows for more Demonsurges for Fel Scarred).

Now, I have more feedback about Aldrachi Reaver, I believe this talent needs a lot of work still.

  • Reaver’s Glaive itself is based on the damage of Throw Glaive. Throw Glaive does no damage, by extension Reaver’s Glaive does no damage either. After testing in dummies for close to five minutes, even in situations with cleave, Reaver’s glaive damage is laughably low. This sounds incredibly wrong to me, this should be the high of the hero talent. This is in part caused by the low damage of TG builds in general, which is something that should be looked at.
  • Most of the talents that affect TG (Soulrend, for example) do not work with Reaver’s Glaive. In fact, I think the only talent that works is Accelerated Glaive. Whether this is a bug or not, I don’t know, but also looks is incredibly antisinergystic.
  • All the damage this tree provides is focused on two things, Reaver’s Mark and Art of the Glaive. All the other nodes (Preemptive Strike, for example) feel like fodder, and serve no purpose.
  • It is extremely worrying that Reaver’s Mark, after the changes to it’s duration, can be close to 100% uptime on a single target. It’s a 30% damage amplification. There’s absolutely nothing that can compete in Single Target with this option in the Fel Scarred tree. In fact, it’s so strong that it trivializes everything that Aldrachi offers to the point that the optimal way of playing is always doing exactly the same thing (RG → BDance → CS).
  • Souls are still an incredibly clunky and wonky resource to play around, and we as Havocs would like to avoid it whenever possible.
  • Openers are insanely clunky in the current iteration. Havoc only has access to 5 souls on pull (Soul Sigils + Sigil of Spite and Sigil of Flame). With how strong Reaver’s Mark is as its current tuning, it feels incredibly bad to start your opener without having it up prior to that.
    Please, give us access to a talent that allows us to have a Reaver’s Glaive on pull, or do something similar like Mage’s Sunfury, and generate a RG passively out of combat.

Fel Scarred in general feels fine, but the friction from cycle still applies to this build if you decide to play Essence Break and Initiative.

I’d finally like to mention that visually speaking both talents still feel undercooked, with nothing impactful happening when the big moments of those trees happen (Reaver’s Glaive and Demonsurge).

Thank you for reading.

1 Like
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Okay, finally got to try Aldrachi Reaver gameplay. It feels… really bad. :confused:

Too many souls needed to reliably use the ability with the 30s timer feeling too short. When it said a pattern of bladework, I was hoping it would feel like a building combo or something, but it’s just two button presses and then squat. Really wish it was a new combo that built on itself like, “reaver glaive → enh chaos strike → enh blade dance → reaver glaive again → enh…”

A combo that rewards successfully executing it by becoming more powerful the longer you keep it going feels like what the text hints at but the mechanics don’t do that at all. Ironically it feels like all momentum completely stops the second you hit blade dance.

Could be cool if we got specific combos that made the abilities grow in power with each successful execution, and then made them mechanically difficult to hit or made the window the hit the combo shorter with every successive combo, reflective of the power of the combo.

2 Likes
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Pretty wild you are the only person to mention this imbalanced, oppressive talent so far. Truly boggles the mind why this has not been nerfed yet, granted it seems 3 out of 6 tanks have yet to see any iteration… enough is enough. This needs to be fixed before season 1 of tww.

2 Likes
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This post is VERY LONG, I apologize but there’s a lot I had to say

Hello everyone,

for those who don’t know me, I’m VooDoo, a Content Creator focused primarily on Havoc, as well as an active part of the theorycrafting community for the spec. Today i figured i would share some feedback, both personal and that which I’ve gathered and heard from both my own community as well as the DH Discord. This might be a bit of a long post, but it will mostly be focused on the Hero trees and our tier set, although i will list current bugs as well as some general things for the class and spec trees (which do need work).

Fel-Scarred
Starting with Fel-Scarred, as realistically it’s the most “complete” of the two Hero trees. This one works reasonably well for Havoc, and i can see and understand a desire for a simpler Hero tree that already fits and accentuates what Havoc (and Vengeance) are doing with the demon fantasy they play into. It offers bonuses for things you are already doing, while also giving small amps and slight tweaks to rotations in the forms of Student of Suffering and Violent Transformation, which offer buff management to an otherwise passive hero tree (and has synergies within our spec and class trees as well.) However, there are some issues i have with the tree, and that I’ve seen brought up.

*Passivity
Personally, i think a passive tree is great. However, i feel Fel-scarred might go a little TOO far into that direction, as there are currently 4 talents on the tree that, in my opinion, are essentially invisible to normal gameplay (Untethered Fury, Focused Hatred, Enduring Torment, Monster Rising). Of these, it can be argued that Untethered Fury can be felt, since more fury allows for pooling, but in total these nodes are incredibly passive. Focused Hatred, Enduring Torment, and Monster Rising are fully invisible passive damage nodes, and while i recognize that each tree should be able to have passives, i think the tree having 4 very basic passives is maybe a bit much. My issue comes mainly to the two nodes that involve power outside of demon form. While i think this is an interesting way to raise the floor of the “troughs” a burst oriented spec like Fel-Scarred might feel, I can’t help but feel like i was wishing these had some more form of interplay with the rest of my kit, some form of synergy. Maybe stuff done inside of demon form empowers the buff, or the buff starts high and “fades” off as you leave demon form. There are lots of ways to make these more interesting, even if it means adding a more “active” choice against them on a choice node (as a few other trees have, the DH trees only have one throughput choice node, while many other trees have multiple)

*Visuals
The visuals on this tree are just a miss, and this is a theme that will echo for Aldrachi as well, although even more so. There’s just basically nothing, aside from the small green explosions (which are nice, but not sufficient compared to what other specs are getting). The biggest thing for me would be to add some kind of extra visual to the new empowers of Eye Beam, Immolation Aura, and Sigil Of Flame. These abilities get brand new icons, why not slap some extra effects to them as well? There were early datamined things along the lines of “each demonsurge grants you a more demonic appearance” as well, which i think would be great, or even some extra demonic-ness outside of demon form. Anything really would go a long way in making this Hero tree feel, well, Heroic

Aldrachi Reaver
Aldrachi reaver tries to hit on the fantasy of the Aldrachi, a fierce warrior tribe who stood up to Sargeras, using their martial prowess and the souls of their enemies. In this sense, I can see what the tree is going for, and the recent changes have made it better, but many issues remain.

*Souls
Souls as mechanic for havoc just frankly doesnt work very well, as the spec was never really designed to use them to the degree that vengeance does. However, the additions on the tree do smooth out generation in combat to the point where i don’t think this is that large of an issue. Instead, i think collection is an issue. Unlike Vengeance, who have two ways of consuming souls readily available (Soul Cleave and Spirit Bomb), Havoc has none. This is very problematic, as often you generate the soul, and either cannot see it, or it is in some position that is nearly impossible to get to safely. Many times over the weekend while i was testing in both dungeons or dummies, souls would spawn that i would simply have no clue where they are, or no chance to get without either significant risks to my survival or significant uptime loss. That feels Terrible. Adding some form of collecting the souls (my suggestion is on any movement ability, similar to how its implemented currently in our sims, but there are many other ways to do it) would go a long way in increasing the QOL.

*Starting combat drought
The recent change from 3 to 6 soul activation helped smooth the rotation of the tree out, however, it introduced another issue, which is on pull. Currently, we’re exploring taking both soul sigils and Sigil of spite on beta in order to smooth soul generation, which is fine. However, these only generate 5 (if you can find and collect all the souls) of the required 6 souls to get a glaive, meaning we are relying on the RNG aspect of Chaos strike generation to get our first glaive. Once we have our first glaive getting to the next few are fine, since the tree speeds up soul generation, but there is Nothing to help getting into this flow. This feels terrible, as we either have to open without our hero talent tree at all, or we have to delay our opener an unknown amount of time in order to RNG generate another soul. Adding some way of generating one (getting to 3 stacks out of combat, hunt granting one on combat start, etc) would really help this tree feel better.

*Downtime issues
The souls that determine when you get your next reaver’s glaive do not need a duration. This duration doesnt really serve any purpose, other than to punish any group which may pull slowly in m+, or to punish this tree being played on any fight with extended periods of downtime. Either of these things lead to you “falling off the train” of glaive generation, and needing to face the above issue of having no deterministic way of getting back onto it. Not only does this feel bad, but this makes the tree much weaker in a lot of scenarios compared to Fel-Scarred, where i wouldnt want to take it on any fight with random significant downtime, or any dungeon where packs are more spread out.

*Talent Interactions
Frankly put, i was excited to cook a build using the throw glaive talents and this tree, only to find that Reaver’s glaive does not work with half of them (Soulscar and Furious Throws being the biggest culprits) despite being a glaive itself. The glaive’s damage is weak enough as it is, this barrier shouldn’t exist, and further works to kill off the glaive talents, which currently don’t really have a nice or use case for them to be taken.

*Power
Right now, the tree, at least in Single Target, seems balanced around a near 100% uptime 30 % damage amp to a single target. This worries me a bit. While its undeniably powerful, it strikes me as the kind of thing that might be Too powerful, warping talent choices, gearing, and rotation so that we can main this buff as much as possible (Sinful Brand anyone). As it stands, the tree isnt as powerful due to some bugs (outlined below), but this constant uptime seems, on paper, VERY powerful, almost spec warpingly so. Caution should be maintained here, as we dont have sims yet, and there’s been no testing, but when i see something like this it seems so powerful i would not be surprised if it becomes problematic. In dungeons however, i think this tree and fel-scarred are both perfectly competitive, and can see reasons for both to be taken

*Visuals
Visuals for this tree are much more subpar than that of Fel-Scarred, as currently the only visual is the purple glow around the glaive. This does look cool, but its basically impossible to see. Normal glaives are very hard to see currently while in melee, especially if you’re fighting multiple enemies, this glaive does not stand out and is practically as invisible. Aside from that though, there are literally no other visuals. Part of the allure of hero trees is the cool VFX and animations they would add to the spec to sell the fantasy, but at points while playing Reaver, i almost forgot i was playing a hero spec. The glow and new icon for the glaive is a nice touch, but even giving a little visual glow around your character would be cool, and aid in recognition of what’s happening without external tools as well. On that note, i think adding a glow or something to signify Chaos Strike and Blade dance are buffed would help as well, as without a Weakaura to track buffs, its hard to see

Tier Set
Honestly, the tier set is incredibly fun. While it is simple, pushing more blade dances and death sweeps has been a blast, and i would love if this was added as a talent somewhere down the line. One small issue does come in with trail of ruin, where-in if re-applied while duration was remaining, it would simple overwrite the buff, cancelling any remaining damage. It would be a great QoL change to make this function similar to ignite or devouring plague, where the remaining damage was added to the new dot. While you wont delay your blade dances so to let trail of ruin finish ticking before adding a new one, it does feel bad to know you are losing on damage.

Talent Tree
I won’t touch much on the tree right now, as the feedback is aimed at gathering thing’s for the Hero trees, but there are issues with havoc as a spec, despite the touch up we just received. The two main ones i do want to touch on are the glaive talents, and the point usage in trees.

*Glaives
As it stands, without the 2pc from Amirdrassil, glaive’s are just simple dead. Throw glaive as a button is very undertuned, and needing to invest 4 points into it to make it even anywhere close to a usable button feels really bad. This is further piled on with everything in s1 wanting us to use Chaos strike, both through the tier set and both hero trees amping it’s damage, and Chaos strike being needed to generate souls and/or blade dance resets. This pushes the glaive talents to the way side, being significantly weaker than anything we want to be doing, and requiring a lot of point investment to even be worth maybe pressing in some niche scenarios. Something needs to be added, either through an increase in power, or an additional payoff in the tree stronger than soulscar.

*Point Locking
As it stands, our tree just feels very restrictive to path through. Often times when making a tree, it starts out with just grabbing all the 28/29 points each build shares (aside from deciding between mover and no mover, which free’s up 2-3 points but still has the same issues) and then selecting the 1-2 points left over at the end. A big issue with this is the 5 different 2 point nodes we have on the tree (many trees have 0-2), which are there both in order to restrict pathing, and because we frankly just don’t have many nodes. Talent points like Know Your Enemy, Any Means Necessary, and Inertia are just hard locks for the spec in order to be competitive (Inertia less so, but most “strongest” builds require these) which already takes up 4 points in the bottom part of the tree (not counting points to path to them) further restricting point selection. On top of that, a lot of the nodes in the tree don’t really build on each other, there’s no empowering of abilities, no way to really dive into build options like you find on other trees (aside from glaives, movement, and immolation aura). This leaves many builds feeling “samey” or being forced to take talents that have anti synergy (Cycle of hatred causing eye beam to desynch from Essence Break, even though it leads into it) and just feel bad to play. This further restricts build choice and leaves us with only really 1 of 2 builds that end up being on top (Not counting no mover, which has been stated to be intended to be a less competitive but simpler option) with only 1 or 2 talent points changed between them. That is not fun, and leaves the spec feeling very similar patch to patch (War within DH is feeling very similar to s3 DF DH). While the spec IS fun, a little something different each patch would go a long way.

While there’s more i could get into, im going to round off this (long, sorry) post with a bug list.

*Thrill of the Fight is an Attack Power normalized auto swing speed buff, causing our attack power to lower as our Auto Speed increases to keep the total damage done of Auto attacks the same. This leads the node itself to cause us to deal LESS damage with it selected, and it’s currently better to either not take the node, or macro a cancel aura for the buff into every single ability

*The 4% pvp nerf done to havoc on June 4th was erroneously applied to PvE as well, and is active on the War Within beta.

*Isolated Prey does not currently give the 30% benefit to eyebeam when striking a singular target (and hasn’t since sometime during S3 of Dragonflight)

*The Hunt and Sigil of Suffering are listed as chaos damage, but do not gain mastery benefit from Havoc unless Any Means Necessary is talented

*Empowered Sigil of Flame from Fel-Scarred only applies the 30% extra damage to the initial hit, the dot remains the same as normal Sigil Of Flame

*Incisive Blade is only applying a 30% damage increase to the main hand hit of Chaos Strike, none the the off-hand

*Warblade’s hunger is not implemented

*Inertia trigger has no duration, can happen anytime after UBC drops (even after death)

*Momentum does not drop on talent change, can be stacked prepull and then remains when swapped to inertia

I’m predominantly a Havoc player, but a list of Vengeance Bugs has also been compiled by the theorycrafting community for that spec, which i’ll copy paste here:

*Warblade’s Hunger is not working

*Fel Desolation does not share a cooldown with Fel Devastation

*Fel Desolation does not benefit from CDR from Darkglare Boon, but does give Fury refund

*Soul Furnace last Soul Fragment to trigger damage amp counts as first stack towards new damage amp

*Fracture is not applying Reaver’s Mark after Reaver’s Glaive

*Shear is not applying Reaver’s Mark after Reaver’s Glaive and not consuming Rending Strike

*Incisive Blade is not applying a 30% damage increase to Soul Cleave

*Burning Blades is dealing slightly more damage than intended; intended is 10%, we’re seeing 11-12% instead

*Burning Blades damage is not allow-listed by Fiery Demise, and thus not increased by 40%

Sorry for the MASSIVE wall of text, but I’m incredibly passionate about this spec, and want it to do well and feel well. There’s many points of feedback here, because to many, Havoc has felt neglected since the Hero Tree reveals (DH is one of only 2 classes besides Shaman to recieve no Class or Spec changes, since Hunter’s is on their way).

Both trees have promise, and with some changes and some improved visuals, could be super fun pillars to build the spec on moving forward into the World Soul Saga.

Thank you all who read through this.

Peace,

-VooDoo :frog:

12 Likes
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do keep in mind that every veng tcer and other havoc players are testing the hero trees and the spec in depth before writing feedback posts. hence why mine is short as well. also lets not fill the feedback thread with comment like these, if you agree with a post its betetr to just favorite the post and move along :3

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Why does Aldrachi Reaver have a talent that just affects The Hunt?

Why not also have additional effects for the other capstones?

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The lack of engagement on here (What, 20 posts?) pretty much speaks for itself right now.

These changes are so unimpactful that I’m feeling actively cold about them. I can’t point to a single ability in that tree that excites me, and that’s a scary proposition when it’s all that we’re getting for the next 10 levels.

3 Likes
23

New build, new Aldrachi changes. As always all of my feedback comes from Havoc.

Most of them are great, the Hunt granting a RG charge gives us a way to open and solves a pain point, thank you very much.

Felblade being a DR is also extremely nice.

However, the Thrill of the Fight change worries me. I’m losing sight of what this tree is meant to do.

On one hand, as I see Aldrachi Reaver, Reaver’s Glaive and the combo enhancements for both CS and Blade Dance are meant to be the highs of the tree, however, with so many damage amplifiers tied to weird spots, they’re anything but, they’re just being used to set-up DPS windows.

This is specially prevalent with Thrill of the Fight, granting you, after this week changes, yet another DPS window, but after you’ve used both enhancements and thus the ‘high’ of the tree is over.

Havoc already plays around 40 seconds DPS windows with Essence Break, and those are not going to go away. We have a very tight setup combo that is incredibly hard to modify. Adding DPS windows through Aldrachi will naturally make us want to have them up for this combo. Aldrachi doesn’t have an identity other than “ramp for the burst window”.

With this week changes, I believe it is ideal to get a RG charge, get both Thrill of the Fight and Reaver’s Mark going and then do your actual opener/Essence break combo. The way of accomplishing this currently is by holding 4-5 seconds doing nothing after doing RG → BDance on the opener, waiting for BDance CD to come back. When the CD is ready you cast Chaos Strike and proceed with the normal opener.

This feels very backwards to me. These bonuses should play in our burst, increasing it or augmenting it in some way, not being DPS set-up windows.

What’s the point of granting us DPS windows during the combo or after it? These play into nothing. I’d honestly suggest that, if you want to add a damage amplifier, you tie it to RG, so the rest of the enhancement/combo skills are buffed, and Havoc can play the normal Essence Break windows without disruption, as RG is an oGCD skill.

On the other hand, I believe we’re not seeing the whole picture. Havoc now has access to a 60% (!!) damage amplifier window. This is stronger than anything the whole base tree has to offer.

So, to summarize:

  • Perhaps the DPS windows triggers should be moved to the beginning of the combo (Reaver’s Glaive)
  • I believe Reaver’s Mark should be removed and reworked into something that directly buffs Chaos Strike and emphasizes the need to use it in actual burst windows (Demonic, EssB), and makes it desirable over Death Sweep in Single target scenarios
  • Thrill of the Fight buffs Havoc after the damage is already done, perhaps this node granting Havoc souls to accelerate the next RG cycle would be a better idea?

Thank you very much.

EDIT: Feedback after raid testing. Havoc really needs a way to gather the souls other than walking over them. It’s incredibly easy to miss them entirely.

2 Likes
24

On Aldrachi Reaver:

This hero tree feels like it adds cognitive load to one of the already more complex specs in the game, and I’m not sure that’s a good thing. Setting up for essence break combos feels a little awkward since you need to blade dance a few gcds in advance to get a 30% Reavers Mark and the 30% Thrill of the Fight damage buff for your Essence Break combo while also having Death Sweep ready in time. If this was the only complaint, I don’t think it would be that bad and players would get used to it with practice.

The thing that makes this hero tree feel particularly bad in my opinion is that souls are the primary avenue to proccing Reaver’s Glaive. Souls on havoc at least are pretty RNG, with the main source being Demonic Appetite procs. This, combined with souls being a little hard to see visually and cumbersome to pick up off the ground, makes for a system that feels pretty bad. This could be ameliorated somewhat by having Art of the Glaive be its own proc seperate from soul consumption or potentialy tied to something else like fury spent or casts of a spell like Blade Dance or Throw Glaive (building toward a big moment of damage). The change recently allowing The Hunt to proc Reaver’s Glaive did a lot to help with this in the opener, and more deterministic proccing in this vein would be appreciated.

EDIT: Additionally, souls feel REALLY bad if you have to move during the opener and souls get left behind - it doesn’t really feel right to go and get them and lose uptime but it also feels really bad to lose out on several aspect of the glaive stacks.

7 Likes
25

A couple thoughts on Aldrachi after raid testing:

  • The power shouldn't come after Reaver's Glaive combo

    OR if it does, the setup needs to be way less cumbersome/not rely on RNG souls. As is, we need to proc a Reaver's Glaive ~7s before our next Essence Break window so that we can cast a Blade Dance and have it up again for our Essence Break combo. This is a counterintuitive setup that can require holding Chaos Strikes (especially in the opener), pushing back your Essence Break window, or holding Blade Dance while desperately trying to generate a soul via Demonic Appetite.

  • Soul management is not fun

    You can't afford to miss a soul, but they can be difficult to see, spawn in a random direction, and will often be left behind if you need to move. Couple that with the stricter-than-most positional requirements that Havoc already faces and it's a frustrating experience.

  • Souls are too random

    Hotbees mentioned this above, and I'll echo that thought by saying that I don't think there's a way to make souls feel good for Reaver's Glaive procs. Not only is Demonic Appetite a random proc, but souls can spawn in a location where you can't quickly retrieve them. Havoc is already working with 3 small damage windows in Inertia, Initiative, and Essence Break. Any delay in retrieving souls can make a massive difference in timing and damage. It's just too punishing.

I like the big payoff, and this tree is playable on a target dummy. But Aldrachi will be frustrating in a raid environment while souls remain the trigger for Reaver’s Glaive.

4 Likes
26

Hi, I’m mainly a Havoc player, so my post will be just about Havoc.

Felscarred Feels fine to play. It feels lackluster and mainly ‘passive’ outside of Student of Suffering adding anything to the class. Which is fine, but without visual appeal Fel Scarred is bland. Eye Beam, Immolation Aura, and Sigil of Flame getting these updated enhanced versions but having the same visual is boring. It promotes Cycle of Hatred which I’m not a fan of, as it de-syncs our Eyebeam and Essence Break combo. I would like for Cycle of Hatred, if it’s going to stay, get the Anger Management treatment and also reduce the cooldown of Essence Break. But I also don’t know what could be done to not promote Cycle of Hatred for the Heroic Talents.

Aldrachi is a whole mess of problems. The recent change was to help alleviate a major pain which is not having Reaver’s Glaive at the beginning of an encounter/opener. Which is a success but the new thrill of the Hunt 30% Damage Buff and other changes has made Havoc a lot more complex, holding off our Thrill of the Hunt buff so we can get our blade dance/death sweep back and line it up with the rest of our combo.

Then there’s Souls being a resource for Havoc to generate a Reaver’s Glaive. It’s clunky and RNG base, regardless if we get a higher chance or not, it’s still based on one Ability to generate it outside of using our Sigils. The Sigils also feel bad to use, as their main purpose is to just generate souls when they’re off cooldown. Those souls are also difficult to see during a fight and even if we do more than 6 souls banked we don’t automatically generate a Reaver’s Glaive, after casting Reaver’s Glaive, until we generate and consume another soul. Havoc does not play well with Souls cause, unsurprisingly, we don’t use Souls outside of it being a healing bonus and making something the Spec doesn’t play around to play around it feels really really bad.

Altogether, Aldrachi Reaver feels just awful to play. Hunting down Souls to consume, not having it up automatically, a much more complex rotation and opener. I just think the Hero Talent needs to be reworked. Maybe lean into using Essence Break? It’s our already built in Damage Amp.

This next part is about Throw Glaives. I actually enjoy the Throw Glaive gameplay of S1 M+ build and S3/S4 IMO is peak gameplay of Havoc this expansion. But right now both the Heroic Talents do not promote or care about Throw Glaives. This is also doubled down with the Tier Set. That’s fine, one season playing around our Tier Set isn’t a problem but S2 and S3 with none of our Heroic Talents wanting to play with Throw Glaives, Havoc will have 4 of our talents just dead the whole expansion.

Aldrachi Reaver works against Throw Glaive. None of the important Throw Glaive talents work with Reaver’s Glaive, and once you have Reaver’s Glaive, holding onto it for your combo means you can’t use throw glaive. Fel Scarred has one talent that gives it Throw Glaive some damage but why would you press that when you can press Chaos Strike that also gains the same damage but it also procs Cycle of Hatred so you can get into Demonic sooner so you can demon surge more.

Our current Tier Set for S3/S4 for Dragonflight is honestly very fun and very impactful in terms of Demon Hunter gameplay. I wish it would come back, but I understand that it basically deletes Throw Glaive as a button to press. It also made The Hunt worth press, and right now The Hunt is only good to press as a Reaver’s Glaive generator, but with the Tier Set, the Damage was doubled and the Cooldown was Halved. It felt good to see one of our Class Capstones actually being a large part of our damage. Right now Aldrachi Reaver picks two of them, The Hunt and Sigil of Spit, just to be a generator for the Heroic Talent.

TL;DR

  • Fel Scarred needs a visual and audio to play and maybe something else to get away from Cycle of Hatred or be more neutral towards it instead of promoting it.

  • Aldrachi is just so frustratingly awful to play with and really needs a rework.

  • Throw Glaive talents are unsupported and just might as well be deleted with our current Heroic Talents.

  • Dragonflight S3 tier is amazing for Havoc.

1 Like
27

VENGEANCE FEEDBACK!

The spec is wholly unchanged from Dragonflight, with all of its strengths and weaknesses intact, so nothing to report on there.

ALDRACHI REAVER

This hero spec doesn’t FEEL like anything. I can occasionally push my Throw Glaive button and it does something different. As far as I can tell there are no big effects for Reaver’s Glaive - maybe the color changes? It’s so fast it’s hard to tell that close to the target. There is no fantasy here.

Art of the Glaive - 40 fragments feels like a lot in play but at least I know I can generate them consistently and they get automatically scooped up by my abilities. It just means every 8 Spirit Bombs or the equivalent in Soul Cleaves gives me the enhanced glaive. I guess this is ok but it really doesn’t feel like I’m doing anything.

Intent Pursuit - Right now, using The Hunt bugs Art of the Glaive. It doesn’t give Reaver’s Glaive as advertised and it also doesn’t give you Reaver’s Glaive after consuming 40 fragments. The Throw Glaive button lights up like something has happened, but it doesn’t change, and the soul fragment counter will just keep stacking up well past 40. One day I might be bored enough to see how high it will go.

Army Unto Oneself - The 10% DR on Felblade is nice. Combined with Unhindered Assault on the node before it and the refreshes it gets from Shear/Fracture you can use it to generate Fury as needed and still have that 10% basically any time you need it.

Wounded Quarry - Shattering additional souls is nice, helps get to the next Reaver’s Glaive quicker, particularly with the attack speed buff from Thrill of the Fight.

Warblade’s Hunger - This does not appear to do anything that I can tell. In theory it’s a pretty significant boost to damage. According to the in-game Combat Log tab there is nothing labeled Warblade’s Hunger and Fracture is doing the same damage.

Thrill of the Fight - 30% additional healing will be nice to play around for survivability assuming it applies to all healing (soul fragments, Soul Cleave, Fel Devastation, etc). Damage buff nice too, never going to complain about that.

FEL-SCARRED

Again, this hero tree doesn’t FEEL like anything. I was really hoping for some sort of cool new effect on Metamorphosis, Demon Spikes, or just some sort of change to the character (like glowing green scars) in general. Something to really sell the fantasy of being scarred with Fel energy. It’s all exactly the same as it was before.

Demonsurge - Nothing exciting, but another automatic source of AoE damage is nice to have in the toolkit, even if its most regular trigger is already a big AoE. Also, it seems pretty obvious to long-time players that the Demonic talent is “necessary” for this hero spec, and it’s hard to imagine anyone playing without it, but you don’t get Demonsurge after Fel Devastation if you don’t have Demonic. New players might miss that.

Pursuit of Angriness - I love this name. It’s so dumb. Please don’t change it.

Burning Blades - It’s an extra passive source of healing with the Charred Warblades talent. The damage is low, which means the healing is low, but it’s free so I’m not complaining.

Untethered Fury - More Fury = More Better. Feels good to fill up the Fury bar, hit Fel Devastation, and then dump all of that Fury in enhanced demon form abilities. Wouldn’t be possible without this talent.

Violent Transformation - This effectively turns Metamorphosis into a DPS CD. I’m sure that’s fine, but considering Fiery Brand is already kind of a DPS CD with the Fiery Demise talent it makes us have to choose between “Do damage now” and “Wait until I need to survive a big hit and then do damage”. This just really highlights the lack of a Survival Instincts/Shield Wall/Icebound Fortitude type defensive CD in the Demon Hunter’s toolkit.

Student of Suffering - I wish it lasted as long as the Sigil of Flame that applied it did. That would give some gameplay between it and the Charred Flesh talent.

Enduring Torment/Monster Rising - Thematically these add the most hero spec flavor because they bring the demon benefits to your non-demon form. I just wish there was some sort of representation of such on the character.

Demonic Intensity - This doubles down on using Metamorphosis as a DPS CD. You can now get 5 Demonsurges and each one does 10% more damage than the previous so it encourages holding all of your abilities and then blowing them in Meta. Again I’m sure this will be fine, but it just seems a little odd for both of our defensive CDs to have such high DPS upside when we have nothing else that’s purely defensive.

OVERALL

Vengeance Demon Hunter looks and feels exactly the same as it does in Dragonflight, which is ok I suppose because I like how it looks and feels in Dragonflight, I was just hoping for more with a system called Hero Talents. Mountain Thane gets lightning, Colossus gets bigger, Oracle has glowing golden eyes, Voidweaver is just awesome all the way around. Sunfury mages get their phoenix and orbs and the Farseer shaman gets its ancestors. Even the hunters, silly as theirs might be, get extra effects (I particularly like the Sentinel owl that comes and drops meteors on the target). Vengeance gets nothing. Really kinda disappointed in that.

Gameplay wise, it’s fine. If you like Vengeance in DF, you’ll like it here because it really isn’t any different. You do get to make a choice with Aldrachi Reaver whether to get the 15% damage increase with Fracture and then double the damage from the Soul Cleave enhancement or do Soul Cleave first and then get 30% increased damage from the Fracture enhancement. But that’s about it, everything else plays pretty much the same.

In summary, let us talent Blur. I just want a “reduce all damage taken by x%” button. Increase the CD if you have to (you probably would). That would make me happy.

5 Likes
30

Aldrachi concerns This will be a bit of an essay, my apologies, thoughts after extensive testing for raid purposes/ will not include raid specific issue’s
Coming out of s3/4 Havoc, I’ve got to admit this feels like a massive step backwards for us in terms of ST raid design. Coming from being relatively strong, consistent and well-rounded in the DF raids with our tier set and mini re-work, this iteration of Aldrachi is concerning to say the least. The punishment for dealing with things like raid mechanics, especially at or around our meta windows is going to be quite rough.
(I will be mentioning tuning stuff in here, I understand that the tuning number’s will change but the premise of my concern’s stand no matter what the numbers say we do at the current moment in time, tomorrow they could come in and nerf everything but the way this hero talent tree stacks buffs and incentivizes manipulation of said buff’s is where I see a negative gameplay loop happening"

  • My thoughts and concerns from a regular player perspective

as it stands currently this hero talent tree is going to take a class with a fun but real skill gap in terms of movement, amongst other things, and just overload it with complications that even us as long term and experienced havoc players are going to struggle to juggle. My initial fear is the max potential damage our aldrachi opener will be, given meta talent options, is going to be incredibly high comparatively to alternative builds or hero talent’s, as well as very hard to achieve, this is going to cause our dmg ceiling to be very high, which will end up with getting the whole class tuned around it… problem is most “regular” players won’t be able to achieve it reliably because of how complex our buff management will be, personally as an highly experienced Havoc with hours and hours on a training dummy in beta I’m able to get crits on a single Deathsweep final slash in the realm of 5-6ish mill when executed perfectly with some luck(crit), that crit chance will get better with gear and stats coming into the season, and while I find this rewarding, the fact it won’t be consistent will become an issue when tuning is looked at weeks into the tier, I don’t want this to be seen as “we do too much dmg” or " the class is too hard" I think the premise of how we get our big ST dmg through an exact build is to binary and restrictive, and so far it doesn’t seem like there is other competitive alternatives, as someone who has coached / helped newer players and less experienced Havoc’s in the past this is going to only really hurt the average player. I believe as it stands now havoc has to many highly impactful - short/medium term damage buffs which include inertia, initiative, Thrill of the fight, art of the glaive, incisive blade, chaos theory, essence break,etc… all of these buffs with the movement the class does ( based on the meta talents which require movement) is going to cause those that are mechanically and mentally capable to manipulate the buffs to the point where it will be leaps and bounds better than anyone doing anything else on the class in terms of ST and likely 2-3 target cleave (including playing the alternative hero talent Fel Scared). This has always been the case in all classes, of course, but this floor-ceiling range is going to likely dramatically stretch as the lows increase and the highs increase. Example: right now in current DF it is perfectly viable to take a slight damage loss and play a non-high movement based build in most encounters, which has certainly helped many players find spots on AOTC all the way to CE raid teams as a havoc. I am concerned with this possibility because as we have seen in the past, classes will be tuned and adjusted based on the max potential, and if that max potential is far higher than the median average than its just going to make the class feel under tuned for the mass of the playerbase

  • From a high-end player perspective

I think most of us higher end CE-HoF havoc’s will figure this new build out relatively quickly and it will just eventually become exhausting to play in raid, and the punishment of having our buff sequence broken or slowed down due to natural raid mechanics amongst other situations will be very punishing and honestly just aggravating. Based on my testing personally our current opener and realistically every meta window will likely end up being 17-20 abilities (excluding trinkets,pots,etc… ) this rotation will have to be done in perfect sequence with no interruptions in order to get what is able to effectively be max output as it stands now, throw in the movement that we do naturally and even some proc chances, and this window which is now closer to every 2:30 seconds due to stuff needing to line up, is going to be very important and where a large source of our burst dmg comes from. Havoc has always been a punishing class when things are interrupted, s2 cycle build, current inertia meta window’s, it all sucked when we have to break from the boss or hold abilities to wait for new phase for a dmg window, and that’s a true statement for all melee, and also is a large part of where player skill comes into play, but with Aldrachi this loss of dmg is amped significantly, especially if an interruption happens in the middle of a dmg window, which regardless of the real dmg loss, is just going to plainly feel like crap.

I personally think that the flaws of Aldrachi are much deeper than a tuning issue, as a class that depends on very quick paced dmg buffs, and given how quick the windows are, specifically with Essb, I’m not sure exactly how to make this hero talent tree more user friendly and to lean off burst windows where our sole objective is to make 6 or more buffs line up to a 4 or 5 second window, it currently feels like you have to be preparing for your next Essb window at all times, holding abilities, and trying to think very far ahead into an encounter to determine where things need to be used and the ramifications of sending/using micro CD’s. A big thing I think that there needs to be is ways for havoc to get soul’s other than running in circles around a boss, maybe tie it into fel blade, or TG, or just passively.

9 Likes
31

I just wanted to pop in here and give some feedback after participating in M+ and raid testing over the past few days as a Havoc Demon Hunter

Fel Scarred

feels fine, has enough to change the rotation to where it’s not exactly the same, but is a bit boring in my opinion, some extra visuals would REALLY go a long way here

Aldrachi
The recent changes to Aldrachi where the hunt generates a charge of glaive (perfect, love it, fixed one of the bigger issues) and the bottom buff being changed to a 30% all buff for 10s instead of 30% to next ability fixed some issues, however, they also opened up a LARGE can of worms

essentially now Aldrachi exists in a space that is adding significant complexity to a spec that is already amongst the more complex specs in the game, requiring you to not only overlap your current Essence Break rotation as you do on live, but to now interplay that with the glaive, requiring a setup roughly 8 seconds before each essence break. The opener itself is now a roughly 19-20 button opener that will be repeated every 2 minutes. The 30% damage amp combined with the 30% reavers mark amp are just so spec warpingly powerful that it absolutely changes what you are doing in such a complex way to where the cognitive load on the spec is now much too high, especially with boss mechanics. Combine that with the RNG generation of souls, how difficult they are to see, the fact havoc cannot track them with a WA the same way venge can, and the fact that they spawn very far and we have no way of consuming them like vengeance, leads to a frustrating play pattern. My suggested minor changes without reworking the tree:

  • Give some kind of soul attraction/consumption effect in the tree, on a low cooldown rotational button we use often (fel rush/Chaos strike/Fel blade). This will allow the collection of souls that spawn far/in dangerous areas, or that are just invisible in the flow of combat. Especially since most of Havoc’s soul generation is RNG from chaos strike or the talent tree, this WILL ease a lot of frustration

  • Have thrill of the fight happen once you USE Reaver’s glaive, not after. This will eliminate most of the weird gameplay where you use the glaive, and then wait 5-8 seconds for blade dance to come off CD again. Blade dance and Deathsweep are also some of our strongest abilities, and one’s we really want to amp.

  • Remove Reaver’s mark, replace it with a large single target hit from chaos strike. This can be its own damage source similar to art of the glaive. The Damage amp from chaos strike is problematic, especially with thrill of the fight. Doing your rotation incorrectly to where you chaos strike first leads to just dropping 50% of your damage amp, and even using Art of the glaive in cleave in raid feels bad since you miss so much extra damage to the boss. By having it be a large single target hit, you retain the prio/ST focus spender, while also allowing more opportunity for Art of the glaive cleave to be used. This also allows the tree to better represent itself in logs/on meters, and could even add more opportunities for Visual effects!

  • Please add more visuals to both this tree and fel-scarred. Compared to essentially almost every other hero tree in the game, both demon hunter trees are basically the same as live.

Again, these are what i believe will ease a lot of the cognitive load that goes into this hero tree, while retaining the same idea and theming of gameplay with glaive combos and souls.

4 Likes
32

I’m still gathering my thoughts for a feedback post on Demon Hunter as a whole in The War Within, but have a list of bugs I’d like to report first. Some of these were already mentioned by a couple of people here, so thank you to those who reported them.

All of these have been confirmed to still be active as of 11.0.0.55120:

  • Vengeance: Soul Furnace’s last Soul Fragment to trigger the damage amp counts as the first stack towards new damage amp
  • Aldrachi Reaver: Warblade’s Hunger doesn’t work and the tooltip is unclear what it’s intended to do
    • In the spell data, there are 3 spells related to Warblade’s Hunger: the talent, a physical damage proc, and a stacking buff (up to 5 stacks) that multiplies the damage of the proc by 100% for every stack you have. The tooltip just indicates that consuming a Soul Fragment will cause your next Shear / Fracture / Chaos Strike / Annihilation to deal extra damage.
  • Aldrachi Reaver: Fracture does not apply Reaver’s Mark
  • Aldrachi Reaver: Shear does not apply Reaver’s Mark
  • Aldrachi Reaver: Shear does not consume Rending Strike
  • Aldrachi Reaver: Art of the Glaive (damage proc from Blade Dance / Death Sweep / Soul Cleave) does not have its damage amped by Thrill of the Fight
  • Aldrachi Reaver: Art of the Glaive (damage proc from Blade Dance / Death Sweep / Soul Cleave) does not have its damage amped by Reaver’s Mark
  • Aldrachi Reaver: As Vengeance, reaching 40 consumed Soul Fragments does not give you access to Reaver’s Glaive
  • Aldrachi Reaver: Reaver’s Glaive does not have its damage amped by Reaver’s Mark
  • Aldrachi Reaver: Thrill of the Fight does not buff ticking damage like Sigil of Flame, Soulscar, Trail of Ruin, Fiery Brand, or Soul Carver
  • Aldrachi Reaver: Assuming that Warblade’s Hunger was implemented, it would not benefit from Reaver’s Mark
  • Aldrachi Reaver: Assuming that Warblade’s Hunger was implemented, it would not benefit from Thrill of the Fight
  • Fel-scarred: Burning Blades is allowlisted by Fiery Demise but does not benefit from the 40% damage multiplier. It does benefit from the 10% damage modifier from Burning Blood.
  • Fel-scarred: Fel Desolation and Fel Devastation do not share a cooldown.
  • Fel-scarred: Fel Desolation does not benefit from CDR from Darkglare Boon, but does give Fury refund
  • Fel-scarred: The 30% damage buff to Sigil of Flame from casting Metamorphosis does not apply to the ticking damage, only to the initial hit damage
8 Likes