…I don’t play it because it is a crappy playstyle that no on plays because of this. That’s why Frost DK is the least played. It’s trash.
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They havent touched breath in expansions. Over 8 years… while literally everything else gets changed. Obliteration has had more attention on it for the past 2 expansions… they literally keep adding stuff to obliteration. Like if you dont play it, dont cry and complain about it when theres an entirely different playstyle built within the spec. Frost is essentially two different specs in one, with each wanting different things. And that other spec, not breath, has been catered to for the longest time. Sure it might not have been tuned high, but thats the tuning team to handle. And with them adding on effect after effect for obliterstion, its going to be hard to tune it for that reason.
It hasnt had anything done to it in the first place. The one change breath has had in the last 3 or 4 expansions, was reducing the rp cost to 18 instead of 16. So im glad theyre returning it back into an actual burst cd.
So instead of complaining about breath, which you think it the problem for some reason, despite it not getting any attention. complain about obliteration. Where they just keep piling ability after ability on top of it.
And im not saying they should change breath. It simply works. Ever since it was created, its always just worked. Cant say the same for obliteration, which gets changed every expansion, which leads to its own problem. Add more talents that buff breath, give us a option node to switch between long or short bursty breaths.
Happy that breath is bursty again and will rely less on having uptime. Sucks for obliteration, cuz your damage is gonna be dictated whether you can stay on the boss 100% of the time kek good luck with that
Take a deep breath dude, it’s going to be okay. I don’t know how my post wasn’t clear but I Think Obliterate is crap too. Frost DK in general is crap, it’s 100% boring and clunky and it needs a from the floor up rework like Ret did.
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Sadly, this issue affects both play styles. Damage without CDs feels like trash.
Im fine dude? But when you start off by saying “delete breath”, when its the main thing forum fdks spam, it just gets annoying.
Theres 2 playstyles. Those that dont like breath, wont ever play it, and want it deleted. While the people that play breath and enjoy it, dont really care about obliteration and arent on here saying " delete obliteration".
But the fact remains, most of the problem’s frost faces, is because of obliteration. Many of us can agree that we shouldn’t be putting more power into pillar, and for obliteration thats just a 1:1 issue
Itll affect both playstyles, but with this breath change, its less of an issue than it is for obliteration. Obliteration is gonna be even more reliant on uptime with icy talons stacks going up and the long winter giving extra pillar duration. So if they have to step away from the boss for more than 10 sec, that means less pillar uptime and duration.
Your Unholy feedback is gold, I pray Blizzard reads this.
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My apologies if any of this has been said already:
For Frost:
Please remove the stacking strength buff from Pillar, and just let it be the flat strength buff. Part of the reason why so much damage is tied to Pillar is that ramping strength buff giving Pillar even more oomph when it doesn’t need it. This does lose some gameplay optimization of wanting to squeeze in Frostwyrm’s Fury (and maybe the new Frostscythe) right at the end of pillar to benefit from the maximum strength bonus, but I don’t think this tiny bit of skill expression is worth the problems it causes.
Remove Cleaving Strikes entirely for Frost. I like cleaving giant Obliterates onto 3 targets as much as the next guy, but this talent just causes so many problems. It locks even more power into Pillar for Obliteration builds, it forces us to use DnD which feels clunky and out of place as Frost, and it causes the AoE damage profile to be completely dominated by Obliterate.
There has to be some other solution for 2H Frost builds to do solid AoE damage, like making GA better, making the Frost Strike cleave better/more accessible as 2H, giving Obliterate some AoE damage component during Remorseless Winter (not full damage on 3 targets though), etc.
To me, from a thematic standpoint, Remorseless Winter is by far the coolest ability that Frost DK has, and does the most to lean into the Lich King kind of vibe. Despite that, imo the button is very boring to actually press, and I would like to see the uptime of this kind of effect greatly increased.
This could be done in two ways off the top of my head, both of which I think could work with some iteration:
- Change RW to have no CD, but constantly drain ~3 RP every second while active. Frost is still drowning in RP so the uptime would be quite high, and is a cool and unique way of doing AoE damage. Very similar to how Maelstrom used to work for Enhancement shamans back in BfA (?).
- Change RW to be entirely passive. While in combat, Frost just constantly has the RW animation playing and constantly pulses the AoE damage. Again just giving off major LK vibes of being surrounded by the snowstorm all the time.
Remove Icecap. It’s fine for Pillar to be a static 1 min CD, being punished for downtime even more by losing Pillar CDR is just the worst. Alternatively, Icecap could be changed to just provide flat CDR, like changing Pillar’s CD to a static 45 sec CD when talented.
Rime procs too often, resulting in too many globals spent not spending any resource. Obviously it can’t be brought down too much or Frost will suddenly have the opposite problem of feeling resource starved, but it definitely feels like the proc rate is too high where it is now. It also doesn’t help that Howling Blast feels lame as hell so Rime procs aren’t exciting in the first place.
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This. The past feedback on Frost was very good, but hardly anything was picked up by Blizz at the excuse of wanting to focus on the breath play style as an option. It’s just not good enough and Frost has consistently felt awful in testing TWW… because hardly any true change has occurred.
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They spent the entirety of SL and DF implementing feedback specifically to make 2h/Obliteration competitive. Baseline MoTFW, Fatal Fixation, Icecap & Obliteration not being mutually exclusive - all things heavily slanted away from Breath. Massive hitting Obliterates are directly a 2h/Obliteration want, too.
The design pendulum hasn’t even entirely swung back yet and you people are still complaining about Breath just existing. Frost deserves to play like garbage if its players are this dumb.
Lmao they havent done anything to breath for years… what are you guys even on about…? Its literally been the same ability. Obliteration has been the thing thats changed… idk how people can be so deranged about an ability just because they either cant play it or dont like it.
Nothing has been added as an excuse to play breath. We’ve actually had talents created just to supplement obliteration… the one talent that you could say has been made for breath in the past 4+ years, is hyperpyrexia…
Heres a break down of talents concerning unique abilities:
Obliterate: 9
Froststrike: 4
Howling blast: 4
Remorseless winter: 5
Pillar: 5
Breath of sindragosa: 1
Frostwyrms fury: 2
Chill streak: 2
Glacial advance: 1
They should start making abilties just for breath imo 
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And why do you think the changes to Obliteration?
Because until very recently, 2H frost was a joke and completely tossed aside in favor of DW Breath.
One of the most thematic aesthetics of the job is an Arthas-style 2H runeblade, and instead frost has players like a fury warrior or rogue for most of its competitive existence. In M+ this is even more true.
If breath somehow worked equally well for 2H as it did for DW and we weren’t in constant danger of 2H falling back into the suboptimal “noob choice”, people wouldn’t mind it.
So fix the disparity by allowing 2H to have a second runeforge and tweak autoattack based procs.
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2h has a second runeforge… motfw… its literally stronger than any rune we can get… and 2h is already stronger than dw… you should be advocating for dw buffs if you want equality…
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It absolutely does not in any aoe scenario, which is what M+ cares about. A boost to Obliterate is worthless in M+ with pulls of 10+ mobs
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Are you joking right now…? Obliterate is your highest damage spell in aoe and st… regardless of target count…
After the recent changes, with all the changes to Obliteration to bring it up with BoS, which was previously dominant. Go back to SL or earlier xpacs and that obviously isn’t the case.
That is the point. MotFW has been in since Legion, guess what people played in Legion, not 2H in M+
What youre complaining about is a tuning issue. While the design direction of frost for the past 4+ years has been to supplement obliteration with talents created strictly to bandaid its flaws… you cant tell me frost was pushed towards breath when theres ever only been 1 talent thats affected it(itself). They had the tuning knobs for obliteration and simply did not care…
Sure, but that is exactly why people are afraid if Breath gets tuned to outperform 2H oblit, that they won’t care for another 4 years again and it’ll be back to playing with cooking knives instead of your large mournblade.
If Breath was equally useful to 2H, this would not be the concern.
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Obliteration has been just as good as breath for the entirety of DF
And DF is out for 2 years while DW has run strong for over half a decade prior. People don’t want DF to turn out to be an anomaly.
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