This is a solid breakdown. I appreciate the reply!
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Yes, people have been talking about having a high RP spender.
But thats not actually the problem, its all the sources for generating runes from spending runes or using a rune spender. Frigid Executioner + Murderous Efficiency = 3 runes gained for spending 2 runes, Obliteration + Rime which gives back runes for spending nothing.
We are supposed to get runes back from spending RP. While RP is still spent and runes gained from it, a high RP spender goes against that design and you could spend a lot of runic power just for damage but not get more than 1 rune back, instead of spending a lower amount 3 times and possibly gain more runes. So at best you want RP spenders to be no more than 50rp.
But this really isnt the place for all this. This is about Sanâlayn which is really just laziness.
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How much yall wanna bet they aint gonna listen to, change, or rework us and just ship as is.
God I hate being cynical about this.
7 Likes
But again these Hero talents are for Blood and Unholy. The other two hero talent trees are blood + frost and frost + unholy. why are u crying?
I think itll be cool to introduce new spell schools for these hero talents. This one for example could be Blood Plague damage? Bringing back the plague dam lore for DK and infusing it with blood magic.
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Yup
Oh look guyz, Give us ur feedback!!!111111 so we can ignore you for another year and a half
Bet you those clowns havent even opened up this forum since posting LOOOOOL sure havent responded to anyone at all thats for sure, But hey, What was i expecting? more than 1 blue post per 3 years in the dk forums? LOL
11 Likes
Like many others have said.
Itâs very hard to provide good feedback on a an additional system that modifies talents when the base system is in desperate need of a reworkâŚ
8 Likes
Not even worth the effort, They dont read these forums, they just make a post to meet some quota and pretend like theyre listening
Otherwise how else do you explain all the ignored feedback from the past year and a half
DS still heals like trash
Half the DK talent tree is uninspired and straight up bad
Half the Frost tree is recycled garbage
They destroyed the unholy talent tree in pvp, for pve
More than half the DK honor talents are completely useless gimmicky trash, Or literally the most undertuned talents known to the game
Bloodforged armor is the pitiful excuse of a talent to âcompensateâ for deathstrike being garbage, But the talent itself completely destroys the original design of what DS is supposed to be. A reactive snapshot anti burst self heal
But now you just spam it every other GCD to maintain buff uptime zzzzzzzzzz
Unholy has a classic combo point system, which was pruned back then for being poor design
Frost was turned into a cheesey AoE gimmick spec, Relying on standing in a puny ground effect to deal any meaningful dps, outside of that you are a non threat in every capacity
These devs dont have a clue, they dont deserve your input, Nor will they even read it, consider it, let alone change anything
I hope im wrong, but im calling it now, Next xpac will be more trash for DKs like it literally has been since post legion
6 Likes
God I hope not but it does feel like that been how most of df has gone, yes there have been changes some horrible and some pretty cool only to be nerfed very quickly like unholy pvp talents.
The original defensive nerf still blows my mind they got rid of all the problems with DS and still kept it nerfed through ENTIRE expansion. Why? It just doesnât add up and I think that part drives me nutsâŚ.so what helps with that is tell us why itâs still like that.
They want feed back and people do want to voice feedback I feel because I think a lot of the ones left still love what the class is or used to be lol.
If blizz tells us whatâs going on I could only guess that people would be a lot happier then not being told
2 Likes
thats what ive been saying this whole xpac, Theyre stubborn devs, who think no dps specs should have good self healing, because the rogue and mage babies would cry about how they dont have healing (ignoring all the other absolutely crazy stuff they have)
Pally healing should be rebuffed, DK healing should be rebuffed, Shaman healing should be rebuffed, Feral healing should be rebuffed, All healing needs to be unnerfed let hybrids be hybrids
8 Likes
âPlease remove Rot and Witherâ.
Blizzard: Read 10:46 am
âPlease redesign the frost tier setâ
Delivered.
2 Likes
How do people explain all the feedback that has been listened to?
If they dont listen then why were the Frost dk talents shifted around? Why were some things made baseline that were mandatory in the tree like Frostreaper that is 100% mandatory (that I called in beta that you wouldnt not get it) KM 2 stacks and some other changed that was asked from these very forums.
So, if people make suggestions, see those happen, and then still complain. Why would Blizzard listen to you further? They did what you want, and you are still whining.
2 Likes
I donât disagree with you, though there are some conceptual issues to start. The hero tree works against the philosophy of the spec tree in some respects (i.e., options). For example, when Vampiric Blood already has a large footprint in the spec tree, such as Red Thirst, then are we not then incentivized to always take Red Thirst and other talents that boost Vampiric Blood? Dancing Rune Weapon would be a better option, but not by much. Likewise, if heartstrike is so central, then why not take talents that boost heartstrike? Consequently, the Sanâlayn tree may further dictate âmust-haveâ talents in the Blood tree.
Blizzard could instead pick multiple abilities with a smaller footprint on the spec tree, such as Deathâs Caress, Rune Tap, Bloodworms, Consumption/Blooddrinker, or Blood Tap, to interact with the hero tree (Deathâs Caress becomes Vampiric Caress). Ideally, that would be less disruptive/degenerative on core abilities or playstyle, but fixing one âproblemâ can simply create another.
Most of the replies are focused on Blood, but this tree is also just awful for Unholy. Zero meaningful thematic changes or anything that makes it feel closer to a Blood DPS, but it introduces annoying gameplay by having to spend runes constantly refreshing Virulent Plague, even more damage in cooldowns and more DnD reliance.
The tree, and probably the spec, need a complete rework.
2 Likes
Whole tree seems thematically and mechanically awful for Unholy. Any chance we could just forego the 10 points in both hero talent paths, since they are being built around antiquated specs and mechanics thatâve needed reworked for years? Iâd rather just have 10 more points to pump into either the main or spec talent trees; thatâd make the class feel way more closer to being complete than⌠whatever this is.
4 Likes
The talents donât seem so bad, however anything that has to do with Death and Decay needs to be completely reworked.
I would say this for all the DK specs in my opinion and I believe it was stated elsewhere, relying on a small ground circle that is like the old mages skill RoP, is an antiquated approach. Most fights that are being developed revolve around movement for the different actions, so why would we want to bake more things into something that requires us to stay still?
Understanding that the community hates to stand in small circle, or be next to small circles is just annoying and ultimately makes people hate the playstyle. The lore associated with DK or Cosmetics ect⌠is why a lot of people do like the class, the talents need to be adjusted within reason to support the evolution of the game.
TLDR: The talents look interesting for everything non death and decay related which is a good thing. Anything death and decay(DK version of RoP) needs to be scrapped and reworked to the evolving style of the game and mechanics.
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I think most people may have a misunderstanding about Infliction of Sorrow, in fact, Vampiric Strikeâs trigger rate is only 15%, and it doesnât consume Plague during Dark Transformation, basically, most Unholy are in Dark Transformation more than 50% of the time, so it doesnât lead to frequent replenishment of Plague. so it wonât lead to frequent replenishment of Plague. What we should worry about is that Vampiric Strikeâs 15% triggering rate will always appear at an unreasonable time, leading to Unholy chaos, for example, my Plague is only left for 10 seconds, and then Vampiric Strike will appear out of the blue. Strike makes me have to refresh Plagueâs duration again, which sucks. If I could know when Vampiric Strike would appear, then I would be able to control the Plague duration more, resulting in a better experience.
Conceptually, I like the idea of Sanâlayn Death Knights being more fast paced and mobile. On paper the idea of having more haste, resource gen and movement speed, as well as passive and on demand leech for yourself and your allies sounds cool and fits the theme of a vampire. Vampiric Blood acting as a quasi Metamorphosis which turns the player into a Vampire and changes rotational abilities also sounds cool.
The most controversial design choice is tying offensive player power to a defensive cooldown, Vampiric Blood.
If done correctly, this could make Vampiric Blood work similarly to Metamorphosis for Vengeance Demon Hunters. Meta, while primarily a defensive cooldown, also has offensive power tied to it.
The reason why Vampiric Blood feels bad to use as a quasi Meta is in my opinion that it doesnât make you stronger when you use it, but instead mostly acts as an enabler for a maintenance buff. Heart Strike being turned into Vampiric Strike for the duration - which makes it gain a bit of passive leech and has an increased chance to refund a rune - sounds good on paper, but in practice you likely wonât notice the passive healing much and wonât be able to spend your resources fast enough when it matters. These issues partly boil down to a fundamental design flaw of Blood Death Knight, causing them to struggle in sufficiently hard content - which would go beyond the scope of this post.
Perhaps with a major rework to the Blood talent tree that would solve those fundamental design and resource issues these talents would look better. As it is they instead highlight the existing problems and double down on design issues, which is worrisome.
Some half-cooked ideas for Sanâlayn:
- Vampiric Strike only incurs half a GCD, therefore refunding runes with casts actually feels good because you can also cast many more Vampiric Strikes with shorter globals.
- Actual mobility to make the hero spec feel like a fast vampire, something that lets you leap at the throat of your enemy. Maybe this could be baked into Vampiric Strike or Deathâs Caress (what could be more caressing than a hot tongue and two pointy teeth on your neck).
- Blood Beasts seem a bit uninspired. How about Blood Orbs floating next to the player that store health and explode for damage in a more predictable manner. Even better if these orbs regenerate passively over time so that you start a new pull with 3 orbs which buffer upfront damage and help with aoe threat.
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Is it still vampiric blood for the ability that triggers the full time ? I thought I read they were going to go to DRW. Tying the offense to defense cool down is usually frustrating just because offense=/= defense