“Let us know hat you think”.
By far your best joke when it comes to DK.
19 Likes
I dunno, straight up telling warriors “get bent, you can’t be the most iconic warrior in lore” is funnier
2 Likes
Yeah and that would be a ton of damage.
People mad it will make unholy have to reapply their dot, well yeah but you can make your dots deal LOTS of damage, so if you like the idea and go a dot focused build you can enhance it with this, if ya don’t like that, I am sure the other options will be more to your liking.
1 Like
I think its time to bring back presences for DK specific to their spec. More buttons on a class that already has so much bloat feels bad. At least Unholy Aura would alleviate some of that. A vampire bite ability would be on point lore wise. Maybe Dark Transformation turns our pet into a vampire with new abilities and massive leech.
16 Likes
Newly turned talent seems pretty underwhelming.
Maybe could also remove the rp cost on our battle rez.
I like getting more group utility, that seems a nice start.
But the movement speed we give is pretty underwhelming compared to other comparable utilities. Same goes for the Leech being on a high cooldown when so many classes bring a permanent class buff.
It has nothing to do with liking, it will either be a massive amount of damage that will be awkward to use that you are forced into, or be not enough damage to make up for how jank it feels.
This entire tree is awful on some axis or another, the Vampire Queen haste goes directly against the changes they made for this patch.
The blood beasts are thematically appropriate for one of the other trees
The disease interactions have the potential for bad gameplay
The utility is underwhelming.
1 Like
I’m just going to go through each talent from the perspective of a blood DK enjoyer™ with a slight dabbling in unholy. Only gonna talk about talents I have questions or concerns about.
- Vampiric Strike: Your Death Coil and Death Strike have a 10% chance to make your next Heart Strike or Scourge Strike become Vampiric Strike . Vampiric Strike heals you for 3% of your maximum health and grants you Essence of the Blood Queen , increasing your Haste by 1.5%, up to 7.5% for 20 seconds.
Does the vampiric strike apply all effects from the replaced ability? Should clarify this.
Does the stacking haste get stacked from cleaved strikes? Is this on hit or cast.
Does the stacking haste refresh or reset after 20 seconds?
- Vampiric Speed: Death’s Advance and Wraith Walk movement speed bonuses are increased by 10%. Activating Death’s Advance or Wraith Walk increases 4 nearby allies movement speed by 20% for 5 sec.
So now my wheelchair nitro also greases the other character’s wheels a little. If you want to give a benefit from death’s advance to others, give the pushback/knockback resistance buff. There are multiple dungeons where this would be a meaningful benefit, 20% speed though? Eh.
- Blood-Soaked Ground: While you are within your Death and Decay , your physical damage taken is reduced by 5% and your chance to gain Vampiric Strike is increased by 5%.
PLEASE 
STOP MAKING PLAYERS STAND IN GROUND EFFECTS FOR BUFFS.
- Vampiric Aura: Your Leech is increased by 3%. While Lichborne is active the Leech amount is increased by 100% and affects 4 nearby allies.
Seems mediocre. I’ll never not pick the other option with how this is.
- Visceral Regeneration: Your Heart Strike and Scourge Strike have a 3% per stack of Essence of the Blood Queen to refund a Rune. Vampiric Strike doubles the chance to refund a Rune.
With all the haste we’re gaining baseline from this talent spec. Do we NEED additional rune regen?
Below this I’m just going to give ideas for other things that would fit this tree.
Instead of blood-soaked ground, how about blood caked blade?
- Blood-caked Blade: Vampiric strikes has a 3% chance per stack of Essence of the blood queen to strike an additional time for X% damage. Does not proc additional effects such as runic power, or wound popping, just more fun yellow numbers. Double chance during Gift of the Blood Queen.
For Vampiric Aura how about just letting players trigger mark of blood on themselves? A DK popping lichborne giving all classes 3% health each time they deal damage feels strong, but it’s a 2 minute CD and requires up time to be useful. Also gives the DKs a way to share the healing implied by San’layn. This also only benefits dps/tanks or requires healers to dps to get the benefit, which feels right for a San’layn, maybe have whatever buff the player receives a stack count, can trigger this 5 times, etc.
Regarding * Visceral Regeneration: Your Heart Strike and Scourge Strike have a 3% per stack of Essence of the Blood Queen to refund a Rune. Vampiric Strike doubles the chance to refund a Rune.
Just have this proc CD regen on the cd that locks away gift of the blood queen. Unholy can already be swimming in resources, and I rarely feel dry on my blood DK, only do feel dry when I messed something up.
8 Likes
Why are you making everything tied to a ground effect, yeah blood has it has a reduce cd, but it isnt spammable like consecration is.
6% party leech on a 2 min cd is laughable
and stop making vampiric blood an offensive cd
Blood even has a talent that will heal you up to 2.5% of your health for heart striking targets with blood plague but the first hero talent is just lets make you heal 3% for just using a special heart strike.
Blood as a few blood abilities , blood drinker, consumption, even blood boil but the entire tree is just heart strike and death strike while standing in dnd so nothing new
5 Likes
No one takes wraith walk since you buried it in our talent tree 
16 Likes
Love giving feedback, love trying to help make the class I love blossom.
I’ll go ability by ability, mainly focusing on unholy as it’s what I play.
Vampiric Strike:
Firstly, I assume obviously clawing shadows would work with this, but would it give Vampiric Strike a 30y range like clawing shadows as well? I would hate to leave melee range spamming Death Coil only to not be able to spend wounds because I got a VS proc.
Secondly, does Vampiric Strike inherit the AP ratios of HS/CS/SS? or does it have it’s own damage? Is that damage higher?
Finally, the maintenance buffs we have to deal with as unholy (Plaguebringer, Icy Talons, Death Rot) all come from abilities we can press on demand to maintain, with the expectation of a 100% uptime, is Essence of the Blood Queen expected to be a 100% uptime ability? If RNG doesn’t favor you over that window, it could be very frustrating.
Newly Turned/Vampiric Speed:
I like the group utility, though its a bit underwhelming. Would love to see Death’s Advance’s knockback immunity maybe also spread?
Maybe Raise Ally’s cost removed in addition for Newly Turned, as it seems like the weaker of the two.
Blood-Soaked Ground:
You’ve heard it ad nauseum, people don’t like being punished for moving out of D&D. If this talent is to stay, it has to be met with an easy to pick up utility talent in the class tree that converts D&D/Defile into something like Decaying Aura and Defiling Aura that follows you.
Vampiric Aura/Bloody Fortitude:
Really cool! I love these, no complaints! I hope that “killing enemies” doesn’t require the killing blow, though.
Infliction of Sorrow:
Outbreak feels bad enough to press, let alone having to press it every time you get a (seemly very frequent) proc. Not sure this is the right direction to go for disease integration. Who knows, maybe outbreak can get a new talent that makes it hit like a truck and do something cool when cast on a target without a disease? Spitballing here.
Frenzied Bloodthirst:
Feels like filler, that’s fine. Higher stacks only make it feel worse to lose 'em!
The Blood is Life:
Really cool, curious on the interaction with Commander of the Dead and pet command functionality. Really makes you FEEL like Deathbringer Saurfang… wait… Deathbringer?
Visceral Regeneration:
Unholy has historically had problems with resource flooding, this has a realistic chance of interrupting a delicate balance. Otherwise a neat little bonus.
Incite Terror:
Gives a bit more of a window to refresh the buff, not bad. Vampiric Strike both refreshing and increasing essence is a bit odd, but not a problem.
Sanguine Scent/Pact of the San’layn:
Nice little execute with scent, the word “it” probably needs to be updated, currently ambiguous if it means the DC/DS or the Vamp Strike.
Pact is kinda crazy and I’d love to pump damage into getting a big explosion, but I could see it be frustrating to rely on RNG to proc summon a Blood Beast during a big pop off window. 50% of all epidemic damage over 10 seconds is no joke, and can swing your damage significantly. Maybe Gift of the San’layn can also guarantee spawn one? Also wondering if pet shadow damage is stored too, could be ridiculous with gargoyle. Side note: it would look SO cool if the blood beast got bigger and bigger as it stored more damage.
Gift of the San’layn:
I like the big pop off, survivability will go through the roof. Depending on how the numbers buff out, with all the procs and duration increases that come with Vampiric Strike, I’d be concerned if you would neglect popping wounds all together during DT.
All in all, love the theme, hope the visuals look sick as well. Might be hard to walk the fine line between feeling entirely passive, or feeling burdensome and frustrating. Hope tuning, feedback, and testing in the future helps toe that line.
3 Likes
Please make DnD work like immolation aura standing in a ground effect is so awful
33 Likes
Why would they have anything for frost? This isn’t a full class tuning/overhaul post. This is a post talking about hero talents… And they only did one group of hero talents per class. Getting mad that they didn’t choose to do Frost first is childish.
I’m sure we’ll get the other 2 groups in the coming months. You need to chill out.
3 Likes
seems interesting overall, but this part stands out:
Vampiric Strike: Your Death Coil and Death Strike have a 10% chance to make your next Heart Strike or Scourge Strike become Vampiric Strike .
this spell conversion needs to be some sort of player determined mechanic, not an RNG proc.
The flavor of it seems on the right path. There are some issues as people have pointed out, with Infliction of Sorrow. It seems as though you would just add the disease extension to the first part and remove the damage component from the first part. Obviously a lot of people have issues with DnD and HAVING to stand in it to gain benefits, I think this is very true when it comes to the dps specs and less true when it comes to blood.
I was hoping to see something along the lines of aoe blooddrinker. I also thing Vampiric aura should be a constant 3% leech for your party/raid and Lichborne amplifies it to be stronger when needed.
Base changes to the spec/tree are definitely needed for all 3, but pertaining to hero specific talents they seem to be on the right path.
1 Like
You seem to have missed the subsequent reply to someone making the same exact comment, albeit they weren’t commenting for the sake of starting something.
Point being, I’ll gladly talk about Hero talents, AFTER they make even the smallest attempt to acknowledge the laundry list of things that already need retooling. Can’t layer new stuff on top of broken stuff and not expect the train of bandaide fixes to continue into infinity.
4 Likes
Bringing over relevant feedback from the other thread:
- PLEASE STOP MAKING PLAYERS STAND IN GROUND EFFECTS FOR BUFFS. You took out Rune of Power for a reason. Stop making DKs stand in Death and Decay. Stop making Paladins stand in Consecration. Change Blood-Soaked Ground to “while Death and Decay is active” and then do the same for basically every other effect related to Death and Decay, and Consecration. These things never feel like buffs, they only feel like punishments for not being able to stand still or maintain 100% uptime on them. Do you even know many times random scenery that I can’t even see a mile above my head has eaten my DND? It’s a lot.
- Does Vampiric Strike still retain all of the other functions of the ability it replaces, like Heart Strike’s slow, or bursting Festering Wound? If so, then the tooltip needs to be updated to clarify this.
- Does adding a new stack to Essence of the Blood Queen refresh the entire stack so maximum stacks can basically be maintained at 100% uptime? It would be good to have this clarified in the tooltip somehow.
- Vampiric Aura wording is odd. Is that 6% Leech for you and 4 allies during Lichborne?
- Bloody Fortitude honestly sounds amazing and like it should have been a talent all along.
- Blood is Life sounds entertaining if nothing else, though a lot like Blood Worms. I hope it’s a cute little blood monster. I enjoy the juxtaposition of cute things attacking and exploding violently.
- I’m not sure how I feel about Infliction of Sorrow. 3 second disease extension is effectively nothing, especially for Blood. 20% of the remaining damage is also effectively nothing compared to instantly eating the disease for double damage, especially when it’s just going get re-applied by Blood Boil in a maximum of 2 GCDs. Now, I don’t know if this would be overpowered or something for Unholy because I don’t play Unholy much, but I really feel like this effect should ALWAYS do 200% of the remaining disease damage, with Gift of the San’layn just changing it to extend the disease instead of consuming it.
- I’m actually looking forward to possibly not caring so much about Haste with how much can be gained from Essence of the Blood Queen. Haste has historically been so drastically important for Blood that, between Bone Shield and Essenec of the Blood Queen, for basically the first time ever all other secondary stats may be more valuable than Haste. I guess that’s one way to do it, though having more actual interactions with Crit and Mastery would be nice.
- Sanguine Scent needs wording changed to clarify what is guaranteed to critically strike.
- It’s really wild to not see any kind of interaction with Blooddrinker.
13 Likes
While I understand a stated goal was not to add complexity for complexity’s sake (i.e., button bloat), the San’Layn tree goes too far into passive territory in my opinion. With some exceptions, the tree is heartstrike+ for BDK. The talents appear powerful, but not mechanically or thematically interesting. My feedback or hope would be to allow even more abilities to interact with the hero talents, whether that be blood boil, consumption, blood drinker, and/or blood worms. It feels like a waste to have only four abilities or so be relevant to the tree.
Otherwise, I was really holding out for bloodbolt from Lana’thel. I am not sure how that would even work, but I loved that visually.
Also, please no more stand-in Death and Decay buffs. It feels like a bait and switch, where DND provides fantastic buffs that I don’t actually get to enjoy that often.
1 Like
I will echo that it sucks that we feel like we can’t take Wraith Walk in the main trees. Frankly, I think it would be better if you simply eliminated the class-wide trees, restored all of the baseline abilities there to the class generally, and then moved the “interesting” or thematically appropriate talents to the spec trees in place of current dead talents. The class capstones come to mind, as well as the D&D slow, etc. It would mean receiving one talent point every other level rather than every level, with a payoff of way less visual clutter and confusion as well as feeling like we have the utility and baseline abilities we were going to take anyway.
I will go against the grain here and say that I don’t mind the D&D Vampiric Strike proc rate increase that much because D&D is up often for Blood and UH can have high uptime with Defile, but the D&D cleave mechanic remains AWFUL, especially for frost which has no means of extending duration. It is way too punitive a mechanic for what should be the specs’ baseline AoE, especially when compared with hunters spamming beast cleave brainlessly (imagine the outcry if beast cleave only procced while the pet was standing it tar trap!) or sub rogues alternating Shuriken Storm and Black Powder with no downtime.
I don’t like mechanics where DoTs get removed for burst abilities. It seems like the benefits don’t factor in the resource or opportunity cost of applying the DoTs - see the most recent legendary’s on use.
I’m confused about how ramping up the buff during Gift of the San’layn will work, but I don’t like the idea of it asking for us to spam Scourge Strike during a time (often at the beginning of a fight) when we are trying to prioritize RP spending for gargoyle. Maybe it suggests that this Hero Spec is intended more for M+ than raid? But I thought you didn’t want that to be a thing.
How about buffing mastery instead of haste? This might be slightly less fun for Blood, but then larger blood shields would be appropriate as a part of the blood-themed hero spec.
I am betting that you might make extending the knockback/movement cancellation of DA to a whole party part of one of the other hero specs, but it’s obviously something that would be way more exciting for most of us.
These are just initial thoughts.
EDIT: really great to see this interaction in the actual class’s sub forum btw
4 Likes
Why are you naming them after a Shadow Priest talent? Seems wierd.
The spriest ability is a legacy of a previous direction for the spec that they’ve moved hard away from since Legion.
This is how you get that ability renamed.