Yup anything can change, But tuning numbers wont fix big issues that are issues with the spec that will make it just not perform well in X content.
Spec that doesnt have AOE or aoe doesnt work, No Dispel protection, X mechanic doesnt work, its annoying . That isnt stuff to solve with tuning, that is why this discussion is here.
Says the guy that wonât post on his main and is wrong so often, but seems to enjoy berating others.
Yet another baseless comment with nothing to back it up, if youâre going to keep spewing nonsense with no evidence to support it can you do it somewhere that isnât the official feedback thread
All the evidence anyone needs. Your comments rarely have any relevance. You spend your days insulting others, as if itâs your job.
Just once it would be nice going into an expansion where the hunter feedback thread doesnât fall into useless bickering. No wonder the devs just wash their hands of the class every expansion since Legion. Look, all you need to say is:
If someone says something you agree with, give it a like. If you donât agree with something, discuss it if you want but donât bicker. Feels like I am in grade school again and I have turned into my father.
A hypothetical that is as relevant as an explicitly incomplete / to-be-revised pre-Alpha mockupâŚ
Perhaps focus on what about the gameplay itâd cause is uncompelling, rather than basing its lack of competitiveness on an as-of-yet non-existent tree?
I donât disagree that they may try to cut down development/tuning time by making only one of each pair of hero class options competitive for each spec, despite their explicitly stating that they wonât. But neither is that a certainty. Nor is there any certainty that Pack Leader will provide more attractive of gameplay or just as lopsided a spec-fit.
That makes âPack Leader will be better; this wonât be a real choiceâ less than useful feedback, especially given that the intent of this thread is to gather feedback on what can be improved and why, not merely some summative resultant conclusion regarding the balance of final tuning, which likely wonât be until many iterations from now.
Edit: Cogâs very much constructive feedback, snipped. Click to go to his original post.
I did that in my first comment. Subsequent comments were mostly just responding to people dismissing necessary feedback with âthere will be two to choose fromâ responses.
However, to recap my thoughts on the current Dark Ranger Hero Talents⌠Theyâre too imbalanced. Some need a complete rework. Others need to be tuned. Theyâre not just out of tune though. It doesnât seem like they understand the specs it applies to, because they address non-existent problem while not addressing new problems they create.
Ahh, my apologies, coming back to the thread later seems to have picked up not quite from where I last left off. My bad.
Great notes/questions, btw.
Sadly have to agree.
And Iâm one of them.
Iâm really stoked for the Dark Ranger talents coming next expansion! Iâm happy that weâll get black chains similar to how Sylvanas raid phase 1 started. But I also am curious how will black arrow work in conjunction with wailing arrow since itâs already present on the BM talent tree? I hope we do get to keep wailing arrow though. Itâs by far one of my favorite spells on BM hunter. 
I do wonder if Dark Hound will affect any of the BMâs current talents we have already?
I wonder if the rp at the beginning of seething shore will change now. Because there will be dark rangers in the group lol
Logically speaking Wailing should interact with this and hopefully the Hounds interact with the pet talents or are treated like Dire Beasts.
please dont take this the wrong way, but as someone that has been playing a hunter since the games release, got 245 characters 56 of which are hunters, been through every up and down, good and bad decision and being right 95%+ of time whether a decision has been negative or positive, i cannot feel that this is nothing more than a rats nest that will just add another layer of convolution to an already in need of attention spec. that being MM specifically.
i know players have been asking for a dark ranger spec for a long time now and while this can have its good points, it just looks a little off to me. the work that would be involved into making an actual dark ranger spec would be a giant undertaking and have the need for a 4th spec.
i get that we are trying to keep things fresh with each passing expansion, i cannot help but feel this is the wrong way of doing so. i am sure the ball is already rolling and foundations have already been set in place but having these black arrow âhero talentsâ put in for not only MM but BM will just making both specs to similar, no?
i cant wait to heard more about this as it progresses but as it stands i dont feel good about this. dont get me wrong the thought of playing a âdark rangerâ got that âcoolâ factor, but if this is all it is going to be then you are just a bm or mm with a shadow ability that procs various other spells.
I think it seems like ultimately the whole conversation here has ended up where most of us probably expected it to goâŚ
We can talk about the overall design feel and button maintenance and theme and current wailing arrow and whatever all we want but what if the class rework changed all that? Iâd probably say the current hero tree still seems pretty underwhelming but a rework could change the context and lens weâre looking through here. (I doubt itâll change anything but itâs worth pointing out that class reworks have dramatically changed some classes so far)
After sleeping on it and reading comments I still stand by my idea that Black Arrow should probably replace Aimed Shot + Barbed Shot. It should deal damage over a shorter period of time and have to be reapplied which isnât much maintainence for us and letâs us work with an ongoing shadow dot which procs fun things for us.
I think wailing arrow spreading the dot would be pretty cool. I think Trickshots spreading it would also be cool⌠to balance BM vs MM in that way I think you could do something like letting your beasts pulse shadow damage on targets hit similar to the multishot or something would be okay.
Dark Hounds isnât really on-theme for MM so⌠a choice node there would be cool.
Death Shade just sucks. This needs to be completely redone.
Grave Reaper would have to go with my idea since thereâd be no CD as itâd just be a normal rotational skill. Replace it with something like it lowering the CD on wailing arrow. (Not sure how good Dark Empowerment would feel yet so holding my judgment there)
Embrace the Shadows just looks like it needs help. Even with all the rework to this that Iâm talking about where a bunch of your damage becomes shadow Iâm not sure 15% of that beats Smoke Screen.
Dark Chains should chain ALL nearby enemies to make it even remotely relevant in PvE, though I can understand the PvP problem here⌠also 40% is a real who cares number. I think this skill is kinda cool but it just screams underwhelming to me.
Intense Darkness could probably stay as-is.
Shadow Surge I sort of touched on before with spreading the dot and potentially pulsing damage earlier as an idea.
Darkness Calls is boring but fine especially for my proposed rework since weâd have more shadow damage. Shadow Assassin looks like absolute trash.
Withering Fire is a boring throughput proc but might still be okayâŚ
Side Ideas -
Sylvanasâs Desecrating Shot from SoD (the black swirlies from P1 that went out in patterns). That was a pretty awesome skill⌠why do we not have something like that here for at least MM? Replacing Volley with it would be sweet?
Sylvanasâs Rangerâs Heartseeker which did phys + shadow DoT with the 3rd stack allowing for bigger combo burst? This is something that could fit in as part of my rework idea where 3 stacks of black arrow on a target causes the next to proc for the triple hit or consumes all stacks or something
Wailing Arrow still just needs a straight up rework. It needs to be instant cast since it has a travel time because itâs a useless interrupt and it needs to be touched on in this hero talent tree with how clearly it fits into the theme. I think having some kind of synergy with getting CD reduction on it and spreading the dot or something would be cool.
Anyway those are some of my own rework and design ideas on this from primarily the MM perspective. I hope people like my ideas or they at least inspire some even cooler/better ones. Will check this again tomorrow or something Iâm sure, have a good one folks.
Wailing arrow should be part of this tree from a thematic point of view.
But from a functionality a low damage aoe silence with both a longish time AND a travel time is DOA for most of the use cases for an ability.
Can greatly increase the damage/remove it, cut the cast time entirely or the travel time entirely and see how that works from there.
As it stands I think the dps kit works well enough and an on demand aoe silence would provide some much needed utility which would be one of the last glaring flaws in the hunter kit.
The other classes previewed donât have an active ability added (aside from replacing one), but this one does. The early look preview states they donât want to burden the player with more buttons to press. Please consider replacing a current ability instead of adding a new one, not just in this tree but all the new talent setups.
Dragonflight button bloat has led me to drop other classes I liked because of too many required active talents. One of the reasons I main a hunter is fewer main buttons in the main rotation and Iâve already added some this expansion.
no? you arenât thinking about this in the right way at all lol. MM tuning with dark ranger has nothing to do with dark ranger or pack leader for BM players. you might as well be talking about warlocks.
if a BM player is picking between dark ranger and pack leader, those two hero trees are the only thing theyâre thinking about. they are not factoring in MMâs tuning, because they want to play BM.
The person I responded to was upset that dark ranger existed for BM as it doesnât meet their fantasy. I replied there is an entirely second hero talent tree if they are concerned about fantasy.
You chose to interpret that oddly personally and then got weirdly upset about it and thought I insulted you directly because I dared to imply that maybe we should wait to see other hero talent trees before making large, sweeping statements, especially when it comes to class fantasy
doesnât light smith get a new ability?
I forgot they released that one. I never play holy or prot, so I completely ignored the tree when it was announced.
I did mention that they should consider it for other trees, as well.
To me, it does look like an iteration of what the venthyr would propose for hunter in SL , except now you have an extra button to press to add the ticks that will allow for cd reset (Flayed Shot). For the disengage chain, it was also already implemented through a root when you would disengage next to a target. Difference is the ticks might not only reset Kill Shot, but Aimed Shot, which will feel cluttered with the other aimed shot reset (lock and loaded and trueshot cd reduction). Feels like your gonna have the finger on Aimed Shot all day long with maybe a Kill Shot press, Dark Arrow when up, and maybe a Rapid Fire. So what about the rest of your dmg abilities which we already find little to no window to use reliably. Glad we get an oversee of what it might look like before it gets released, cross-finger for them to listen to the communityâs ideas.