The top choice and all options in the circles are set picks and those with arrows are pic which ever side.
So Every talent in a circle is going to be picked there none that aren’t selected.
The balance matters. When it comes down to it, the vast majority of players are going to choose the talents that result in the most DPS gain. Dark Ranger is clearly lopsided in favor of MM. While there will certainly be a few players that focus on fantasy over function, they will always be a very small minority.
Now you’re just being obtuse. It’s clear what Blizzard intends from these Hero talents. You don’t have to accept that, but please come back and read this post again when they are released. lol
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I meant the fantasy aspect not the actual talents.
how am I being obtuse lol you’re making generalized statements based on nothing factual, just your feelings
“We know that for some players, prioritizing total throughput is the most important thing to them, even if the difference between choices seems small. That’s okay but keeping Hero Talent balance close is one of our priorities so that players can play what they prefer and still be viable in any content.”
if you choose to ignore the stated goal, that’s fine, but don’t act like you’re privy to some unknown information without backing it up with anything factual
it’s almost as if this is a feedback thread 7 months before the expansion is out specifically asking for feedback and it’s almost as if I said this very point of feedback as the very first post in the thread
right, that’s why each spec has access to two different hero trees to hit wider fantasies
You’re being obtuse, because you implied that assumptions are unwarranted without hard data. I made it very clear my comments were assumptions based on history.
I’m making statements based on Blizzard’s history… in a thread asking for feedback. As they stand, these talents are clearly tilted towards MM. If that changes in the future, then so will my opinion. I can only give feedback on what is currently known, with assumptions from how Blizzard has done things in the past.
Oh, the irony. You do realize I’m giving feedback, right? lol
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another HotS inspired idea is “remorseless” where Withering Fire’s fired at a primary target already affected by black arrow ricochet/bounce to 1 nearby target, applying black arrow to them also. This makes dark ranger into the “2 target” niche hero talent choice, a gameplay hole desperately missing from the MM current toolkit especially.
Haunting wave as a delayed “self gateway” replacing Disengage would be cool, especially the “windrunner” Sylvanas HotS level 13 talent inspired, allowing 2 uses of mobility in a short timeframe.
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feedback that is “clearly BM isn’t going to choose this tree” is based off of nothing. you have no idea what pack leader is going to look like. you have no idea what tuning will look like in alpha. you are making generalized claims based off of incomplete data
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Dark Ranger as BM / MM feels wrong. Nathanos and Sylvannas, the Iconic Dark Rangers, both fight Tyrande with Dual Wielding, and one of Sylvannas’s biggest scenes in BFA is her using Dual Wielding against Saurfang. PLEASE swap Sentinel and Dark Ranger; Sentinel makes more sense for the BM Hero Path on account of the close bond they have with their owls.
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Are you kidding?
If Pack Leader is balanced with this current iteration of Dark Ranger, then BM’s options will be significantly weaker than MM’s options. That is unlikely, so the assumption is that a pet-centric hero talent tree will be as strong for BM as this tree is for MM. I don’t think that’s much of a stretch.
ASSUMING Blizzard makes Pack Leader as strong as Dark Ranger is for MM, it’s clear the vast majority of BM players will choose Pack Leader over Dark Ranger.
The only other option is for them to somehow balance Dark Ranger to be equally as good for both BM and MM, but that would require a lot of work. I doubt they will go back to the drawing board after showcasing it publicly.
The most glaring issue is MM’s Mastery: Sniper Training, which increases all ranged damage. Black Arrow is ranged damage. That means Dark Ranger will be significantly stronger for MM Hunters. Not only Black Arrow, but also abilities buffed by Dark Ranger(Aimed Shot, Rapid Fire, Kill Shot).
How do they balance it between the specs? Make it baseline and not affected by Mastery, but that is unlikely to happen. Part of MM’s Mastery is increased range. Imagine if MM Hunters were range limited to 40 yards by Hero Talents.
There is so much to consider here, but apparently you can’t see that deep into the problem.
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Aight so read the tree many times over;
I love it. I do think some tweaking should happen; Dark Chains seems very PvP centric, which, ok I guess but a bit of a feelsbad node for PvE.
I would love seeing Wailing Arrow in a better spot in the trees and make Dark Ranger interact with it somehow, like “Black arrow damage has a chance to reduce Wailing Arrow CD” and the like, thematically they are so insanely cool.
Regardless this is making me want to work on my hunter.
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when your initial feedback was “this is bad because I just know it is” without any explanation or rationalizing at all, what do you think people will read that as? do you think they will read is as backed by theory or a walked through thought process?
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Did you read my first comment? Or are you basing this entire argument off my response to your previous comment? Scroll up. In my first response in this thread I posted a very detailed comment about my issues with Dark Ranger.
yes I am responding to your initial response of me when you got mad that I suggested that each spec has 2 different hero talents to choose from if the “fantasy” of one isn’t what someone prefers for their character.
did you read mine?
I read the entire thread, but that doesn’t matter. You tried to diminish another person’s opinion about these hero talents by saying “i mean tbf that’s why each spec gets 2 hero trees”. That’s just a dismissive comment, so I figured a dismissive comment in turn was warranted.
As it is, I stand by my opinion. When you have Hero talents that are substantially stronger for one spec than another, it’s just an illusion of choice. Sure, you can choose it, but it’s like having a choice between a turkey sandwich and dog food for lunch. If you really like dog food, go for it, but it’s not a viable choice for the vast majority of the playerbase.
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again…we don’t know that’s the case 
the person was talking about fantasy, not optimal output.
blizz said they want both hero talents to be viable for most players but understand a certain subset of players will always pick optimally even for small gains. that’s 100% unavoidable
But we do… I’m not sure how you can’t see this.
As they stand, Dark Ranger Hero Talents can go two ways.
Option 1(most likely imo): Black Arrow is affected by Sniper Training Mastery, making DR Hero talents significantly stronger for MM than BM. Sniper Training for my character is about 54% extra damage.
Option 2: Black Arrow is not affected by Sniper Training Mastery, meaning it will negate part of that Mastery and negatively affect the extended range component. This would result in outraged MM players.
No matter how you slice it, it’s imbalanced.
At this point, I think you’re just desperate to not admit you’re wrong, so go ahead and continue on with your ignorance.
That’s just double speak. A “certain subset” would be ~99% of players. This is literally what I mean by the illusion of choice. You seem to think the illusion of choice means no choice. If there was no choice, I would say that. Illusion of choice is a choice between a good option and a bad option, where nearly every reasonable person would choose the good option.
At the moment I don’t really mind what I am seeing. I like more survivability. I like Black Arrow. I don’t really want yet ANOTHER (MM) button to bind, though. So I would prefer it if Black Arrow replaced another talent. Like have it replace Rapid Fire for MM, and during the Black Arrow dot, shadow power courses through the hunter and increases Focus Regen by 30% or whatever. And while I am here asking, put Explosive Shot on the MM tree, revert it to RSV Explosive Shot and make it a choice node with Aimed Shot.
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So its a new ability you have to press it every 30 seconds and all it does is make you use your other abilities faster.
Hmmmmm doesnt sound too fun also we already have too much buttons as is
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i’m sorry but if you think 99% of wow players are playing at the level where a 1-3% difference is enough to change their preferences for optimal play you’re incredibly deluded. especially since, again, this conversation started with someone talking about class fantasy and not mechanical output I think you’re the one that doesn’t want to say when they’re wrong lol
this has absolutely nothing to do with dark ranger vs pack leader for bm. it is not a zero-sum choice. you are talking about marksmanship mastery when the conversation is about choices for BM.
you have absolutely no idea what pack leader looks like and you are basing your entire argument off of pack leader being better for BM in an expansion that’s 1) not out yet 2) not close to being out yet 3) not publicly tested 4) without any changes made.
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Did you miss shadowlands?
The majority people played whatever covenant was bis for them (pve or pvp) whatever content they did do, even if it was a small percentage difference. If something was like 5% worse they didnt pick it. Even bad players that are not at high levels do this.
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