Feedback: Conduit of the Celestials Monk

As a windwalker monk, I agree that I don’t want yet another channeled ability. If it replaced one of our cooldowns or triggered during our Invoke Xuen/Invoke Chi-Ji/Invoke Yu-lon instead, I would be alright with that.

Also as a windwalker, I can appreciate trying to make rushing jade wind more appealing, but I avoid it because cannot justify taking another talent that gives me another button to push.

I am happy the fantasy behind this tree, but I will almost certainly not play it because I’m running out of space on my action bars to put all my abilities and on use weapon/trinket abilities already. This tree will give me another spell, and has a talent that wants me to take another spell I already avoid due to bloat.

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Restore Balance triggers RJW automatically so technically you don’t need to talent into RJW. Especially since Flight of the Red Crane also triggers off SCK.

Edit: in fact I would guess the math will still be that you don’t take RJW so the only time RJW triggers is while Xuen is active.

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True. It still encourages you to pick up the talent, maybe more so for WW since SCK isn’t as spammable as it for MW.

Although it doesn’t really address the “this feels out of place for what this tree is trying to do”.

My gut was to associate RJW with something like Master of Harmony more than Conduit of the Celestial.

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Overall I definitely like the feel of the tree, as a mistweaver it also feels nice that Celestial Conduit feels more additive then being the focus of the tree.

Also just laughing that we are getting a return of Chi-Ji the Crack Bird in a way.

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Overall thoughts:

  • Overall a good tree. I like it thematically, and all of the talents seem useful.

MW feedback:

  • Works well with both melee and caster playstyles, although this hero tree skews more toward melee playstyles since you’re now expected to press Tiger Palm.
  • Celestial Conduit being a 20yd range feels too short, but might be fine in M+. Raid situations will depend on how spread out the group is, but if we take Amirdrassil as an example, that shouldn’t be too often.
    • The effect does need to be strong enough to be worth the 4s channel; it needs to be strong enough to compensate for the fact that we can’t do any other damage or healing.
  • RJW currently being a 10yd range is pretty bad. That should be addressed in TWW, especially since it’s a core part of the tree. Even upping it to something like 20yds would be good.
  • Please make Life Cocoon count as utility and not healing for Celestial Conduit.

WW feedback:

  • Celestial Conduit as a channel feels wonky. Fist of Fury already feels bad, but I guess you can at least do things while channeling Celestial Conduit.
  • Seems like this would force you down a path where your ST and AOE talents are very similar again. You’d want to take Dance of Chi-ji and Rushing Jade Wind to maximize procs on the right side of the tree.
  • The Inner Compass/August Dynasty choice node is really bad. 3% secondary stats on a spec that doesn’t scale well with secondaries or tie yourself down even further to Jadefire Stomp.
  • Heart of the Jade Serpent is also kind of laughable. At least the CDR is predictable here and doesn’t necessarily affect what buttons you have planned out. If anything, I’d rather have this change to add CDR to Xuen (or Chiji/Yu’lon for MW) so Serenity can have a chance to line up with it.

Questions:

  • Inner Compass
    • Does Inner Compass have a duration? Or is it like a stance where it shifts when a Celestial aids you and then permanently stays when a new Celestial aids you?
    • How does this interact with Unity Within?
    • If it’s a stance, what stance do we start encounters in?
  • Unity Within
    • The wording isn’t terribly clear here. Does this do another cast of Celestial Conduit, but at 200% healing and damage? Or does it proc the other hero talents, but at 200% effectiveness?
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We’d like to note that we’re planning to make updates to Mistweaver Monk in The War Within to remove Essence Font from the talent tree, along with changes throughout the talent tree to accommodate this and ensure that gameplay is not disrupted.

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Since day ONE Monk has been about using the power of the August Celestials. If after all this time you still hate it why r u even playing monk?

Summoning celestials and using chi energy etc is the coolest part of monk, not to mention the rich pandaren lore :slight_smile:

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Can you remove all summons for WW? oh and reduce ToD to just a execute again without it being most of our dps.

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Does this also mean Jadefire Stomp will not apply Essence Font on targets any more?

EDIT: What about MW mastery? Seems to be gutted more than it already is after this.

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Just a reminder that this clown doesnt speak for all monk, we love celestials :slight_smile:

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what about the mw mastery? anything to compensate essence font being gone?

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Is there any chance we’re going to see these changes in game at some point soon so we can know what to expect otherwise?

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I’m not sure. The other talent that you would take if you do talent into RJW extends RJW duration and allows it to overlap but not stack. Since RJW has a 6 second CD and lasts 10 seconds with this talent that just means that if you use it on CD you can have 4 seconds of 2 RJW followed by 2 seconds of 1 RJW. I don’t think this is enough to make RJW terrible damage appealing especially because using it every 6 seconds would take up so many GCD that you would lose a ton of damage by it delaying much harder hitting abilities. It would have to actually stack and then obviously have a stack limit. Maybe they redesign it in that way and then I agree that really sucks cuz I also do not want to have to take such a boring maintenance ability.

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Yooo you guys are COOKIN’

please make healing part of the celestial conduit 40 yards to keep in line with other heals… or 30 at the least. Keeping the damage portion to 20 yards is fine.

Also, the current 10 yards on RJW is too small to make that talent worth wild… up this too.

not a fan of the capstone talent

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So removed from the tree and baseline or removed as an ability entirely? Sounds like the latter.

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Can we get a clarification on what “Assist” means in the overall context of this tree with Unity Within?

My reading is Courage of the White Tiger, Strength of the Black Ox, Heart of the Jade Serpent, and Flight of the Red Crane are the 4 assists from the celestials and when Unity Within happens then those 4 talents activate at 200% effectiveness.

Is that the correct reading?

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That is most likely the correct reading. It does not affect the Invoke cooldowns.

I really like the tree, but please

Flight of the Red Crane : Refreshing Jade Wind (Mistweaver), Rushing Jade Wind (Windwalker), and Spinning Crane Kick have a chance to cause Chi-Ji to quickly rush to 5 targets, healing each target (Mistweaver) or dealing physical damage to each target struck (Windwalker).

Give this an internal cd so we’re not spamming RJW, it’s such an unfun ability.

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Conduit of the Celestials Windwalker Monk Initial Feedback:

What I liked:

Xuen Interaction with Tiger Palm - This has been something we’ve been asking for and I’m happy to see some implementation of it.

What I didn’t like:

Another Button on the pile - With WW already being at the maximum of buttons to keybind/track, adding another CD that is possibly desynced from all of our other CDs seems strange as an introduction. Is it possible this could be changed to just happen passive when we use our respective Celestial instead?

RJW interaction - RJW is one of the most despised abilities among the WW talent tree for good reason. The design of the ability for WW doesn’t make any sense in a spec that is GCD-locked (CD and duration are tied together and decrease with haste).

Yu’lon’s Knowledge has the potential to create an RJW build much to the dismay of many WW players who audibly groan when they hear its the correct choice. It definitely seems like the most ‘build defining’ of the introduced hero talents on the Conduit of the Celestials tree.

Without seeing what other changes TWW is bringing to WW Monk, this is a head scratcher.

Jadefire Stomp Interaction - Following the theme, JFS is by far the most disliked ability for WW players and seeing a node that encourages us to use it more often is going to lead to headaches if the ability is unchanged (hopefully removed) for WW going forward. Currently, you only want to press JFS to refresh JFH (Jadefire Harmony). As a result, it doesn’t dominate large parts of your rotation currently. If August Dynasty introduces a need to press the ability far more often, you’re going to see this negative feedback about JFS pop up way more often.

Unity Within - I’m not really sure what the point of this capstone is? I believe I understand how it functions. When you use Celestial Conduit, it turns into Unity Within and allows you to press it for 4 seconds to summon the celestials, but why would you ever not want the Celestials immediately? If you press it late in the channel, do the summoned celestials have less duration?

Heart of the Jade Serpent - I find it odd that this isn’t tied to an ability cast or something. It’s entirely possible that you will often proc this at inopportune times and waste the value given from it. It also adds yet another thing you need to keep track of for WW.

Concerns of Scaling/Longevity - With a large chunk of the middle tree concerned with damage procs and there not being much damage allocated anywhere else on the tree, I don’t understand how this tree is going to keep up with the other option, Shado-Pan, in Single-Target situations.

What I need clarification on:

How does the extra duration for RJW from Yu’lon’s Knowledge scale with WW’s RJW? Is it a flat duration added onto it? If so, does it retain the damage interval inherited from the hasted RJW?

How do overlaps from RJW function? Is it one buff with multiple stacks or individual buffs? Does each instance of RJW deal damage or does it just do one big hit based on how many stacks you have?

Is Celestial Conduit’s channel hasted? If it is, in which way? Does it deal its damage more quickly or does it increase the number of ticks during the channel?

For WW specifically, do the Storm, Earth, and Fire Spirits cast Celestial Conduit? If they don’t, is the damage of Celestial Conduit increased while SEF is active?

What I’d like to see:

More interaction with the Celestials themselves! Maybe some permanent summons or something? Really lean into the bond between the Monk and the Celestials.

Perhaps make the Celestials that aren’t normally useful for WW better during the proc? Currently Niuzao and Chi-Ji are pretty lackluster for WW specifically.

Maybe we get some sort of buff while our Celestial is active Ala Invoker’s Delight?

Overall, I’m concerned with the tree for WW as it seems to rely heavily on procs to get its damage in Single-Target situations. In AoE, it encourages a playstyle with RJW that many people loathe. And having an additional button to keybind/track just seems unfun in a kit that is already so bloated with buttons like this. However, I do think the theme is fun and could be improved in a way that is exciting.

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