Feedback: Campaign quests should not require rare drops

First, https://us.battle.net/support/en/article/21518 has, “You can submit feedback and suggestions…in…Our community forums…” “Community forums” is a link, but it links only to the main forums page, not a specific feedback subforum, not to instructions on how to indicate that something is feedback, and I could not, in a reasonable amount of time, find a relevant tag or a better subforum. So, this is written with a Blizzard rep. as the intended reader, but I welcome useful feedback from other players.

Main point: You’ve lost a paying customer because you chose to make a Dragonflight campaign quest require a rare drop. If there’s anything that shouldn’t require grinding/farming, it’s campaign quests. It doesn’t matter which quest, although I already submitted a ticket if you want to check. Don’t do that with any campaign quests. This overall kind of thing has changed in some games. For example, Elder Scrolls Online now has what they refer to as “curated drops”. They added a Collections system, through which you can reconstruct items you’ve gotten before, and when meeting related objectives, you always get a reward that you haven’t already collected. Probably pure coincidence, but they announced this system a few months after I made a similar post in their forums.

Big picture, be absolutely certain that when you set drop rates, you are considering the number of people who play the game. When it comes to probability, you must do the math. IIRC, the author of Innumeracy wrote that human gut feeling is “abysmal” when it comes to probability. Considering the number of people who play the game, when you roll the dice that many times, the odds of completely screwing over at least one person can get very high, and it’s not okay to do that even to just one of your customers, at least not when it comes to campaign quests. IMO, screwing someone over like that should be possible only with stuff that is purely cosmetic, and even that is debatable.

When you also consider that glitches do happen, it’s better to use a different approach when you want something to require multiple kills (or fishing attempts, dungeon runs, etc.). There needs to be a maximum number of kills (or whatever) that it takes to meet an objective. One way of doing this is that instead of a single, rare drop, make it something that you always get at least one of per kill, and if you want to introduce luck as a factor, make it possible to sometimes get more than one. This way, players will see that they are making progress, not encountering a glitch. This also allows you to set a minimum number of kills, something you probably want. Luck works out better if the minimum number of something to drop is higher. Getting two of something instead of one is twice as much luck, too big of a difference. Getting six instead of five is better. Set the minimum and maximum number of drops per kill, and the number of drops needed to meet the objective, in accordance with your desired minimum and maximum number of kills required to meet the objective.

If you want the objective to be something that an opponent has only one of, like a heart (usually), then make it always drop from a special opponent that appears after the player presents enough teeth, claws, bones, etc. at a certain location. Wisely decide whether they should have to gather another collection of parts to try again if they fail to kill the special opponent.

Some people seem convinced that many such things in the game aren’t totally random, that there is something going on behind the scenes to make sure that people don’t get screwed over. If there is, make sure that when two or more quests require different items from the same type of opponent, the system operates independently for both types of drops. If you intentionally want it to not be independent like that, make sure that you prioritize campaign quest drops.

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It’s hard to know what you mean or really relate without an example. I’ve been playing WoW for quite some time and have a hard time remembering the last time a mainline quest (or even side quest, for that matter) was stingy with drops. It seems like modern WoW typically has 50-100% drop rates on “collect quest” type items, and I have a hard time picturing that that has you in enough of a huff to proclaim you’re quitting.

Are you doing legacy content or similar? When is this impacting you?

Agree with poster above. Which quest and which item has caused you to quit?

Campaign Quest: Connection to Ohn’ahra
Item: Salamanther Heart.

Possibly Interfering Non-Campaign Quest: “Artisan’s Supply: Salamanther Scale”

The artisan quest shows many possible locations, but I tried to get the heart in the one location shown for the campaign quest. The journal entry has nothing special. No item or emote to use before trying to get it. If a “Salamanther Heart” is actually the name of some kasafrakin’ plant that I didn’t notice, that grows where the Salamanther creatures hang out, just take me out back and put me out of my misery. :slight_smile:

No, “Salamanther Heart” is the actual heart of a salamanther that you’ve killed.

You may kill hundreds and discover that none of them have a heart. Or at least one you can loot. Maybe you’re too brutal and the heart gets squished or burnt or something.

The real problem is that if a quest requires just one of a drop from a common mob, it will have a terrible drop rate. By design. The developers insist on the grind. They always have. Like Westfall Stew… you only need three pig snouts, and every pig obviously has a snout, but you won’t loot a usable snout until you’ve killed dozens (unless RNG is feeling very friendly today).

Blizzard insists that everything must take time. It makes the shareholders happy. They don’t really care that it doesn’t make you happy.

For some people it won’t take much time at all, and for others, it will take so long that they’ll stop playing. It would be smarter to control the maximum and minimum number of kills required. Luck can still be a significant factor if they want it to be.

I’m sure there’s some fine print somewhere that leaves me no right to complain, so to speak, but as far as I’m concerned, I’ve been ripped off. It’s comparable to buying a defective product.

You’re welcome to complain. In fact, this is the optimum place to complain. I suspect you’re aware of this.

Who knows? Maybe yours is the complaint that changes their mind. It’s only been like this since Day 1; maybe it’s time for a change.

My final thoughts, if there are no more replies, is that people shouldn’t be fooled by the fact that they’ve added the “campaign” label to some quests, for people who want to focus on the main story, and the fact that they’ve added gamepad support. The game has not been modernized in general. Because you need to farm/grind to do some of those main story quests, even the new ones, the game is still very much a dinosaur.

Also, it wouldn’t surprise me if there’s a meaningful amount of ignorance behind the drop rates. Maybe not, but it’s pretty easy to imagine that the people who are ultimately in charge of the decision go with their guts in spite of what someone at Blizzard who actually knows the math might tell them. People in management usually haven’t transcended much primitive cognition, or if they have, they’re learned to not let it show at work.