AMEN Please make a separate SV thread!!!
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I never did say Blizzard was any good at balancing… They never have been. That does not change how the game is built.
Slapped together a quick mock-up of an alternate class tree, for anyone interested. Very spitball. Some talents still say only what the design intent is instead of even attempting concrete details just yet.
For TTM, of course.
Additions to Baseline:
- Tenacity Affinity buffed. Now also increases Armor and healing received by 10% and doubles base health regeneration.
- Affinity: Allows you to select between Ferocity, Tenacity, and Cunning. This is no longer based on your pet.
- (Affinity Skill) - Based on Affinity, allows use of Horn of the Hunt, Survival of the Fittest, or Chain-cutter, respectively.
- Concussive Shot
- Mending Bandages (reworked slightly)
Only two real throughput talents before capstone: Mercy Blow and Serpent Sting / Rending Wounds.
- TOP – Self-sustain | General | Traps
- MID – Aspects | General | Party Utilities
- BOT – Beast-related | General | Other / Traps
Capstone tier starts with orphan nodes for full freedom of choice / not to constrain throughput pathing to/via earlier utility.
Chief Utilities added:
- Means of speeding along the group
- Partial Aspect sharing / partial Affinity sharing
- Able to form temporary LoS points; these cannot LoS a raidwide attack, but can be used to gather enemies.
- Party heal
Much of this is still WIP. Some nodes show only the basic design intent, not the full effects.
Honestly I think the talent tree continues to improve- I really like some of the possible combinations in the newest build.
Here’s a nice sort of Live+ build doubling down on barbed shot multidotting and AOE via cleave / Kill Command AOE / stomp. Looks fun if tuned up!
https:// imgur .com/a/fweREfu
Interesting flexibility available in building your own burst windows through the Stampede / Aspect of the Wild revisions and Cobra Shot interactions. This feels like there are OPTIONS and different feels / outcomes that will have diff value in diff scenarios- right direction!
The new tree is an improvement, anything without Loaded Quiver gets my vote. Being able to path around Kindred Spirits is nice but it just proves how bad of a talent it actually is, it is now also on the DOA pile.
One with the Pack is still a problem but now it’s smack dab in the way of stuff we kinda want. I say kinda because changing Call of the Wild into a 3min CD is really bad.
There is still a couple 3pt talents in the tree and Dire Pack is still far too expensive to reach. Also, I really don’t like having to path through Qa’pla to get to AotW. There’s no synergy there and I really don’t understand the shuffle. Qa’pla is a meh (I’m really trying to be nice) talent, especially at 2 points, and has nothing to do with firing Cobra Shots so why is it blocking a Cobra Shot CD now.
I like Brutal Companion as a concept but it’s probably hitting too hard, also it’s just Stomp 2.0 that hits harder and costs less points. If we’re specing into One with the Pack to get Call of the Wild then we’ve got ample Barbed Shot gen, especially at the mid point on an xpac, so this isn’t even a skill talent; it’s just a passive DPS increase. I like the idea of rewarding good play but OwtP makes it so you can just spam out Barbed Shots and not really worry about dropping stacks, maybe not spam but it’s not that far off.
As for the class tree, why isn’t Posthaste and Trailblazer single point talents? Similarly, Agile Movement should probably also be single pointers.
Also in the class tree, there’s a connection from Serpent Sting to Serrated Jaws that shouldn’t be there. Master Marksman is required for both talents so the link from Serpent Sting is redundant.
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The new BM tree is absolute trash, stop slaming dire beast down out throuts and cobra shot I couldnt give a damn about.
Revert the entire tree of BM back the way it was. Currently I have to spec into the talent I hate the least which is not fun.
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It’s fine.
BM Tree has solid AoE build now and some tinkering with ST.
Dire beasts hasn’t been ± touched since last time anyway (besides 1 node on aotw, and that’s fully optional)
BM Barbed shot is fine. I sat either boost damage of cobra shot drastically or lower focus cost by 20 and boost KC cd reduction to 2 secs…
I do wish there was maybe 2-3 more seconds on the duration on frenzy stacks. I feel it is a bit too punishing the way it is, especially in m+ when your pugging and the tank isnt consistently pulling.
Only path to Dire Beast is thru Animal Companion and TotH or Flamewalkers
The path to Dire Pack is still much too expensive ! Only possible to reach that capstone. Non of the others if this path chose. I see we need 2 points freed up to get Rylacks or Killer Cobra. Along with Dire Pack.
One issue I theoretically see is the necessity to take Keen Eyesight and Thrill of the Hunt for a static 13% Crit buff Especially if we find our-self Crit Challenged. These will become Mandatory to prop up all the % to proc talents. On the Dire Pack build if so.
Fortunately we are not dealing with a Stat squish this time as we always seem to come out on the short end from that.
4-8 for Beast cleave would be OK. the 6 second additive to Cleave we get now is nice But problematic for Kill Command now Cleaving as well.
The Class tree is shaping nice.
I find the most interesting builds for me restricted by taking one point only in Rejuvenating Wind. Otherwise you loose out on Capstone pure dps nodes. Or optionally Misdirection to attain the 20 point cap Not a Problem currently. Tanks have no issues retaining threat. But one always hopes our out the gate burst Makes Misdirection a necessity
Binding Shackles this needs to be Modified to allow our pets to get the Damage reduction. Lets face it as a BM having to face tank extra mobs means your doing it wrong !.
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I could not disagree more. The lower part of the trees left and right forces a zoo build at you.
I dont want to summon half the forest, just me and my pet with heavy kill commands and kill shots. You could spec around zoo build but not now.
The previous build have fine aoe. And they have destroyed AOTW for a boost to cobra shot wow cool, I’d rather my haste, 30 % crit and a cd reduction to line up with every second BW thanks.
Changes are horrid revert please.
2 Likes
Lower part forces zoo, but you also don’t take it currently.
? You only have it on 1 talent and 1 possibly capstone (which you wouldn’t take anyway atm)
What haste ? 10% Crit, but yes cdr down to a min.
However now AotW is likely better in AoE than it was previously on beta.
I assumed he was talking about the GCD reduction in AotW. It might be gone in this version of it.
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I really like this post from Podh about raid utility, particularly about the sheer number of class/spec buffs that do not have a redundancy/backup. My guild is extremely casual and we have raided pretty much this entire expansion with:
- multiple casters but no demon hunter
- multiple hunters and melee but no monk
- only one warrior, so physical dps are SOL when he’s on holiday
- no enhancement shaman
- one druid… who can make one of our two raid nights every week
I liked Podh’s thoughts about sentinel and its place in raid. I’m with him in that I’d LOVE to see Aspect of the Fox brought back in some form.
I also wanted to throw my hat in the ring for an optional extra in our current pvp talent “Hunting Pack”, which applies the effect of Aspect of the Cheetah to allies within 15 yards and reduces its CD, to move more or less into the class tree as Aspect of the Pack and become a secondary source of Stampeding Roar. My guild isn’t top tier and we have players that really need Roaring for some mechanics, but our ONLY druid can only commit to a single raid day a week and we really feel it.
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Had some time now after the week to go through the Beast Mastery tree in the latest build again. There are still some things I find a bit annoying. Mostly about accessibility and pathing/structure, but also regarding point requirements for many nodes.
I went and compiled an alternative layout, with a select few talent additions, much because I think the tree is fairly sparse in terms of available choices you can make. The talents are mostly the same as on the alpha, just some nodes have had their point requirements lowered, while keeping their relative effects intact. Note that I haven’t gone through every single talent and looked at the numbers, so take them for what they are.
Here’s an image of what I came up with. For anyone who wants to, it’s all available in the TalentTreeManager app from github. And if you want to read up on all the talents, even without TTM, click on the expandable tab below to get a complete list of the available talents in the concept.
Code to import into the TalentTreeManager
Also note that the node for Animal Companion is off on its own because I don’t want it to be a part of the tree itself, but for it to be a baseline passive choice people can make when they choose to play Beast Mastery. A choice that doesn’t have any impact on throughput.
Talent Summary
Beast Mastery Hunter Concept
Created with TTM Version 1.3.7
Number of talents: 41
Description:
Concept for Beast Mastery
Talents:
Animal Companion
Your Call Pet additionally summons the first pet from your stable. This pet will obey your Kill Command, but cannot use pet family abilities.
I want this talent to be made a baseline passive effect. A choice that has no direct impact on increasing throughput, but instead is purely about the aesthetics/visuals of fighting with 1 or 2 pets.
-Row 1-
Cobra Shot
Talent type: active
Max points: 1 - Points requirement: 0
Descriptions:
A quick shot causing Physical damage.Reduces the cooldown of Kill Command by 1 sec.
-Row 2-
Multi-Shot
Talent type: active
Max points: 1 - Points requirement: 0
Descriptions:
Fires several missiles, hitting all nearby enemies within 8 yards of your current target for Physical damage.
Barbed Shot
Talent type: active
Max points: 1 - Points requirement: 0
Descriptions:
Fire a shot that tears through your enemy, causing them to bleed for damage over 8 sec.Sends your pet into a frenzy, increasing attack speed by 30% for 8 sec, stacking up to 3 times.
Generates 20 Focus over 8 sec.
-Row 3-
Beast Cleave
Talent type: passive
Max points: 2 - Points requirement: 0
Descriptions:
- After you Multi-Shot, your pet’s melee attacks also strike all nearby enemies for 35% as much for the next 3.0 sec. Deals reduced damage beyond 3 targets.
- After you Multi-Shot, your pet’s melee attacks also strike all nearby enemies for 75% as much for the next 6.0 sec. Deals reduced damage beyond 6 targets.
Wild Call
Talent type: passive
Max points: 1 - Points requirement: 0
Descriptions:
Your auto shot critical strikes have a 20% chance to reset the cooldown of Barbed Shot.
Qa’pla, Eredun War Order
Talent type: passive
Max points: 2 - Points requirement: 0
Descriptions:
- Barbed Shot deals 10% increased damage, and applying Barbed Shot has a 50% chance to the cooldown of Kill Command.
- Barbed Shot deals 20% increased damage, and applying Barbed Shot has a 100% chance to the cooldown of Kill Command.
Training Expert
Talent type: passive
Max points: 1 - Points requirement: 0
Descriptions:
All pet damage dealt increased by 10%.
-Row 4-
Kill Cleave
Talent type: passive
Max points: 1 - Points requirement: 0
Descriptions:
While Beast Cleave is active, Kill Command now also strikes nearby enemies for 50% of damage dealt.
One with the Pack
Talent type: passive
Max points: 1 - Points requirement: 0
Descriptions:
Wild Call has a 10% increased chance to reset the cooldown of Barbed Shot.
Kindred Spirits
Talent type: passive
Max points: 1 - Points requirement: 0
Descriptions:
Increases your maximum Focus and your pet’s maximum Focus by 20.
Killer Command
Talent type: passive
Max points: 1 - Points requirement: 0
Descriptions:
Kill Command damage increased by 10%.
Sharp Barbs
Talent type: passive
Max points: 1 - Points requirement: 0
Descriptions:
Barbed shot damage increased by 15%.
-Row 5-
Bloodseeker
Talent type: passive
Max points: 1 - Points requirement: 8
Descriptions:
Targets struck by Kill Command during Beast Cleave also start to bleed for Physical damage over 6 sec.Kill Command has a chance to immediately reset its cooldown when used while Beast Cleave is active.
Thrill of the Hunt
Talent type: passive
Max points: 3 - Points requirement: 8
Descriptions:
- Barbed Shot increases your critical strike chance by 3% for 8 sec, stacking up to 1 time.
- Barbed Shot increases your critical strike chance by 3% for 8 sec, stacking up to 2 times.
- Barbed Shot increases your critical strike chance by 3% for 8 sec, stacking up to 3 times.
Pack Tactics
Talent type: passive
Max points: 1 - Points requirement: 8
Descriptions:
Passive Focus generation increased by 100%.
Aspect of the Beast
Talent type: passive
Max points: 1 - Points requirement: 8
Descriptions:
Increases the damage and healing of your pet’s abilities by 30%.Increases the effectiveness of your pet’s Predator’s Thirst, Endurance Training, and Pathfinding passives by 50%.
Cobra Senses
Talent type: passive
Max points: 1 - Points requirement: 8
Descriptions:
Cobra Shot reduces the cooldown of Kill Command by 1.0 sec.
Bloodletting
Talent type: passive
Max points: 1 - Points requirement: 8
Descriptions:
Increases the base duration of the bleed effect of Barbed Shot, and the duration of Frenzy by 1 sec.Critical damage dealt by Kill Command is increased by 10% against bleeding targets.
-Row 6-
Stomp
Talent type: passive
Max points: 2 - Points requirement: 8
Descriptions:
- When you cast Barbed Shot, your pet stomps the ground, dealing Physical damage to all nearby enemies.
- When you cast Barbed Shot, your pet stomps the ground, dealing Physical damage to all nearby enemies.
#18 Bestial Wrath
Talent type: active
Max points: 1 - Points requirement: 8
Descriptions:
Sends you and your pet into a rage, instantly dealing Physical damage to its target, and increasing all damage you both deal by 25% for 15 sec. Removes all crowd control effects from your pet.
Aspect of the Wild
Talent type: active
Max points: 1 - Points requirement: 8
Descriptions:
Fire off a Cobra Shot at your current target and 1 other enemy near your current target. For the next 20 sec, your Cobra Shot will fire at 1 extra target and Cobra Shot Focus cost reduced by 10.
-Row 7-
In for the Kill
Talent type: passive
Max points: 1 - Points requirement: 8
Descriptions:
Kill Command has a 10% chance to reset the cooldown of Kill Shot, and causes your next Kill Shot to be usable on any target, regardless of the target’s health.
A Murder of Crows / Bloodshed
Talent type: choice
Max points: 1 - Points requirement: 8
Descriptions:
- Summons a flock of crows to attack your target, dealing Physical damage over 15 sec. If the target dies while under attack, A Murder of Crows’ cooldown is reset.
- Command your pet to tear into your target, causing your target to bleed for damage over 18 sec and increase all damage taken from your pet by 15% for 18 sec.
Barbed Wrath
Talent type: passive
Max points: 1 - Points requirement: 8
Descriptions:
Barbed Shot reduces the cooldown of Bestial Wrath by 12.0 sec.
Dire Beast
Talent type: active
Max points: 1 - Points requirement: 8
Descriptions:
Summons a powerful wild beast that attacks the target and roars, increasing your Haste by 5% for 8 sec.
Master Handler / Snake Bite
Talent type: choice
Max points: 1 - Points requirement: 8
Descriptions:
- Each temporary beast summoned reduces the cooldown of Aspect of the Wild by 2.0 sec.
- While Aspect of the Wild is active, Cobra Shot deals 30% increased damage.
Flamewaker’s Cobra Sting
Talent type: passive
Max points: 1 - Points requirement: 8
Descriptions:
Cobra Shot has a 20% chance to make your next Kill Command consume no Focus.
-Row 8-
Call of the Wild
Talent type: active
Max points: 1 - Points requirement: 20
Descriptions:
You sound the call of the wild, summoning 2 of your active pets for 20 sec. During this time, a random pet from your stable will appear every 4 sec to assault your target for 6 sec.
Scent of Blood
Talent type: passive
Max points: 2 - Points requirement: 20
Descriptions:
- Activating Bestial Wrath grants 1 charge of Barbed Shot.
- Activating Bestial Wrath grants 2 charges of Barbed Shot.
Dire Command
Talent type: passive
Max points: 2 - Points requirement: 20
Descriptions:
- Kill Command has a 15% chance to also summon a Dire Beast to attack your target for 8 sec.
- Kill Command has a 30% chance to also summon a Dire Beast to attack your target for 8 sec.
Cobra Commander
Talent type: passive
Max points: 2 - Points requirement: 20
Descriptions:
- When Cobra Shot hits a target, there’s a chance that this summons 2 snakes to poison the enemy, dealing Nature damage over 3 sec.
- When Cobra Shot hits a target, there’s a chance that this summons 4 snakes to poison the enemy, dealing Nature damage over 6 sec.
-Row 9-
Endless Wrath
Talent type: passive
Max points: 2 - Points requirement: 20
Descriptions:
- Bonus Kill Shots granted by Kill Command extend the remaining duration of Bestial Wrath by 1 sec, and increase the damage bonus it grants by an additional 5% while it’s active.
- Bonus Kill Shots granted by Kill Command extend the remaining duration of Bestial Wrath by 2 sec, and increase the damage bonus it grants by an additional 10% while it’s active.
Brutal Companion
Talent type: passive
Max points: 1 - Points requirement: 20
Descriptions:
When Barbed Shot causes Frenzy to stack up to 3, or when you refresh it while at 3 stacks, your pet will immediately use its special attack and deal 100% bonus damage.
Wailing Arrow
Talent type: active
Max points: 1 - Points requirement: 20
Descriptions:
Fire an enchanted arrow, dealing Shadow damage to your target and an additional Shadow damage to all enemies within 8 yds of your target. Targets struck by a Wailing Arrow are silenced for 5 sec.
Dire Frenzy
Talent type: passive
Max points: 1 - Points requirement: 20
Descriptions:
Dire Beast lasts an additional 2 sec and deal 30% increased damage.
Cobra Strikes
Talent type: passive
Max points: 1 - Points requirement: 20
Descriptions:
Cobra Shot now strikes one additional target while Aspect of the Wild is active.
-Row 10-
Wild Instincts / Bloody Frenzy
Talent type: choice
Max points: 1 - Points requirement: 20
Descriptions:
- While Call of the Wild is active, Barbed Shot has a 25% chance to gain a charge any time Focus is spent.
- While Call of the Wild is active, Barbed Shot affects all of your summoned pets.
Feeding Frenzy
Talent type: passive
Max points: 1 - Points requirement: 20
Descriptions:
Casting Barbed Shot increases the initial damage dealt by Bestial Wrath by 100%, and the damage bonus granted by Bestial Wrath by 4%, stacking up to 4 times.
Killer Cobra / Rylakstalker’s Piercing Fangs
Talent type: choice
Max points: 1 - Points requirement: 20
Descriptions:
- While Bestial Wrath is active, Cobra Shot resets the cooldown on Kill Command.
- While Bestial Wrath is active, your pet’s critical damage dealt is increased by 35%.
Dire Pack
Talent type: passive
Max points: 1 - Points requirement: 20
Descriptions:
Every 5 Dire Beasts summoned resets the cooldown of Kill Command, and reduces the Focus cost and cooldown of Kill Command by 50% for 8 sec.
1 Like
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Like 99% of the reason the niche melee Hunter faction genuinely enjoys the concept amounts to roleplay concerns so they can roleplay as a melee BM for all I care. Making SV melee was already far beyond the limits of acceptability so any form of melee BM on top of that is hopefully off the table.
You’re trying to word it carefully here but this ultimately amounts to making BM a melee spec with a lot of ranged capability, just like SV is now. Pass.
2 Likes
Off-topic / for the local goblin
Source?
Couldn’t possibly be the feel of the burst windows, the use of DoTs, the proc interplay, the hefty bomb burst, the mobility, the faster interrupt, or anything gameplay related.
Surely, surely, it must just be RP, which is why any SV player shouldn’t give a damn about their capacity and any idea of BM having additional options beyond stacking Frenzy, Bloodshed, and zookeeping must be quelled.
/smh
…What need would I have to word carefully that, "No, the fact that BM can shoot arrows from 3 yds away does not make it potentially “melee.”
Having the options by which to take on the constraints and affordances of being melee makes something melee, not someone wastefully using a 40-yd shot from melee range.
Nice, though Row breaks would probably help, too.
Still a little painful to imagine, also, how much better this and MM’s tree could be if Multi-Shot/Carve were baseline…
Scent of Blood also feels barely perhaps too expensive w/o heavy BW or BS synergies elsewhere by which to improve upon those extra Barbed Shots per minute, perhaps warranting some additional, smaller effect and maybe a deeper placement or to have its placement shuffled with that of Dire Beast (it’s pathable without grabbing Bestial Wrath anyways as is) as to be more accessible to Barbed Shot-augmenting specs?
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What burst windows (after legion)
Guess which one is SV
Ahh yes
Compared to BM ?
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Off-topic / For the local goblin+1
Or do numbers make gameplay now?
I’m sorry, are you spreading Barbed Shot, granularly and without CD restriction, in order to set up synergies elsewhere in your kit? Or are we missing the point again?
True. My bad. It’s weird how I missed BM having a 25-yd movement CD reset on each kill. You’d think that’d have been glaring obvious, but I missed it somehow.