Note: I am reposting this from GD, feel free to comment on the original thread here:
Hi there! With the new talent rework coming in 10.0, I wanted to give some thoughts on the renewal of the Ranged vs Melee Survival debate.
Background for me:
I played Ranged SV in MoP and WoD and enjoyed the gameplay loop of using DoT shots, elemental weapon enhancements, traps, and some pet abilities to bring down foes. However, the CORE thing that I miss is the charge system and resets you’d get with Explosive Shot and Black Arrow. I also miss having a Damage over Time alternative to Marksmanship’s more bursty playstyle.
However, I have also learned that Melee SV is a fun way to play the game for some people, and I have enjoyed it myself at certain points. So, to all the melee players: my goal is NOT to take your playstyle away from you.
Why is Ranged SV important to bring back?
Ranged SV was a unique enough playstyle for many players and brought a fun alternative to Marksmanship back in the day. Its removal left a lot of us with a hole in the game and no class to fill it for years. There is NO spec currently that fulfills the gameplay loop that Ranged SV used to have.
The reason the Explosive Shot/Black Arrow combo was such a fun core is three-fold:
- Reacting to procs on a cyclic rotation was extremely fun
- There was an awesome tension that occurred when you had to let Explosive Shot drop off prior to casting your next charge (though this fell away in later iterations)
- Utilizing DoT’s as a fully mobile Hunter was an engaging alternative to the burst of Marksmanship
In today’s Shadowlands, the first of these bullet points is met with Flayed Shot/Kill Shot, but the second and third bullet points are not jointly fulfilled by any class in modern WoW.
My Goal: To provide feedback and on why a customizable Talent Tree will allow for all Hunter players to be satisfied.
I think there is a huge opportunity to please ALL camps of Hunters with this new talent system rework coming in 10.0.
Melee Perspective:
The Melee proponents of MSV are heartfelt, and have found a spec that is enjoyable in the gameworld for them. I don’t think this should be taken away, and in fact is the new owner of the title “Survival” in my suggestion. The way of the Spear has been ingrained into the spec and the core of it works well from the BFA → Shadowlands transition. There are fun abilities, it’s mobile, and has some awesome options like Mad Bombadier (2 and 4 set from 9.2) for its talent tree in 10.0. So I think this should remain as a Melee spec going forward.
Ranged Perspective:
Ranged SV players have longed to get the playstyle they enjoyed back. With the release of WOTLK classic, there will be a return of the classic SV abilities we all grew to love, and a whole new group of people will get to enjoy them. To these players (myself included) the justification that RSV was not unique enough to remain its own spec were pretty frustrating and disheartening to hear. While we do not believe the identity of RSV was too similar, I WILL acknowledge that there was a large amount of ability overlap between MM and SV that could lead to said conclusion. My conclusion (which I will elaborate on below) is that RSV can fit into the class in another way with the unique opportunity offered by 10.0 talent rework.
Now to the meat and potatoes of my post:
- In order to appease these players, what can be done?*
Several suggestions of how to fix this circumstance have been suggested over time:
- Delete MSV and replace it with old RSV
- Create a 4th spec for the class
- Merge RSV and MSV with each other and allow a talented option to swap between
The above suggestions create new issues with class design that I do not think the team will want to contend with. But with the talent rework, there’s an opportunity to do the following:
What if the Ranged SV abilities we know and loved were added as Talent options for Marksmanship Hunters?
It appears from the Restoration example talent tree that there will be lots of choices for each tier, and the goal of said trees is to provide foundational customization for our classes and hybridity where desired.
Taking inspiration from those goals, why not allow MM players the option to swap to some Ranged SV abilities?
Say we have four talent choice options for throughput in the Marksmanship tree. I could imagine them looking like this:
Lock & Load baseline in its current form for MM
Choice #1: Serpentsalker’s Trickery, A Murder of Crows, Master Marksman
Choice #2: Chimaera Shot, Explosive Shot (the MoP/WoD Version that replaces Aimed Shot), Steady Focus
Choice #3: Calling the Shots, Double Tap, Black Arrow
Choice #4: Serpent Spread, Barrage, Volley
In this scenario, there are options for MM Hunters who want the classic bursty spec, and options for MM Hunters who want a DoT spec. We end up in a place where MM feels like bursty MM for those who want it, and Black Arrow MM allows for a varied playstyle for those who want it. I think it elegantly supports the team’s goal of customization for a baseline class.
There is of course a big asterisk next to all this with iteration needed on talent placement etc.
Please feel free to leave your thoughts and opinions, I’ll be looking for suggestions to add and muck about with for this and edit as we go.
Thanks for reading!