On a metaphysics level prior lore seemed like it was from someone who only dabbled in gnostic theology. Vs the lore now is actually founded on gnostic theology. They upgraded and got themselves someone who knows, hence the Cosmic chart rework in Shadowlands. The old Cosmic chart had good intentions but was flawed. The new cosmic chart is the blueprint of Wow’s theology.
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I initially didn’t like the new cosmic chart, but it’s grown on me. The one thing I love about it, is that it allows for more depth and nuance when it comes to the agenda of the forces at work.
It’s not as black and white as the old chart was, which is nice because almost nothing in life is black or white
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Wait did Blizzard actually retcon the chart from Chronicles or are you referring to the way it was handled before the release of Chronicles? Because if they really retconned that on top of basically declaring the entire thing in-universe propaganda, I regret buying it.
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Yes, they retconned the Chronicles chart and gave a new one in the Grimoire of the Shadowlands. The new cosmic chart is a Metatron’s cube instead of an attempt at a sephirot.
The author of the Grimoire, says the Titans view of the cosmos was flawed and centralized to make them the focal point. So it was a clear choice to move away from a titan centric cosmology to a new inclusive one.
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Between this and them basically retconning all the third person narration about Sylvanas from past books to set up Shadowlands, I’m starting to question why anyone buys WoW books anymore.
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Oh cool. I didn’t know they retconned the chart from Chronicles. Looking at posted images of the new chart actually matches up with what I have said in the past they should’ve done - order vs chaos. I’d have to scroll back through my post history to find where I said it.
EDIT: Found my posts about it. This was before I knew they retconned the chart from Chronicles
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Interesting, I’d never looked up the new map before.
Now I know Shaman are flawed… we don’t have decay in our mix yet… we need decay.
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It damaged the foundations, yes. But Fel is even more central to the IP than Void is, being unique to Warcraft.
Personally, I think they shouldn’t have introduced the cosmic chart to an established setting at all. They should have used it to build a brand-new setting with the chart baked in from day one, not folded and mangled existing lore to fit their ever-so-neat pigeonholes.
Oh speaking if decay I stumbled on some lore about that when I was looking into the Forsaken Cure. Do you know anout Thrall’s trials, Shamans can tap into Decay to bring ppl back to life?
Like for forbidden “pack form” druids have, shamans have forbidden decay magic and it’s tied to Life?!
I’ve been dabbling with idea that WoW takes a lot of its lore from Mandaean gnosticism. In their creation myth the universe was created out of the Living Waters mixing with the Waters of Decay.
Blizzard previously has the Universe follow the Lovecraftian creation where the Universe was created from Water and Mist. There’s a lot of metaphysical lore shifts happening.
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Good and evil is "The War Within "
The cosmic chart and by extension religion is only an aside to the philosophy of the human condition and the nature of the soul.
Anyone hear the parabel of two wolves? Plato’s Chariot?
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Decay is used by Dark Shaman and the power Dark Shaman use is Void…
Decay is Void. Not surprising since the closest thing to Decay in the Cosmic Force of Death is Necrotic Energies and they are Teal-Green not Yellow-Green like Decay.
The Void’s Magic variants are Shadow, Nightmare, Sha, Twilight and Decay.
Death’s Magic Variants are Necrotic(alongside the Broker’s Hyperlight Death Magic and Soul Magic it is one of the only two with an official name as the Spells for the others have multiple descriptors), Ardenweald, Bastion, Revendreth, Mawsworn, Hyperlight, Automa, Devourer, Soul and Blighted(Drust).
Order Magic Variants(as Azeroth’s gifted Aspectral powers are implied to not be Order we should exclude them including Time) are Arcane Order and Holy Order.
Life Magic Variants are Red Dragonfire, Dream, Nature, Spirit and Blood.
I think yall are reading a bit too much into the way the elements are placed on the cosmic map. So far nothing in the lore indicates that there is any sort of direct filiation between say, Decay & Death and Spirit & Life. If their spot on the chart is indeed meaningful, then I’d reckon it should rather be understood in terms of affinity/proximity than in terms of filiation. Cosmic borders are porous anyway.
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That is actually cool. I seem to recall there was some old lore about Thrall having to learn necromancy as part of his shaman trials. Personally I don’t have a problem with that, but it would have put off a lot of people. Paladium Books, small TTRPG publisher in michigan, caught a lot of flack when they made a heroic class of Necromancer.
You might be right, however keep in mind that a lot of human history shows reflections between different cultures despite them not actually meeting each other. Some of this is because there are only so many ideas, but also because the human mind can only really divert in so many directions before it starts rounding back onto itself.
The more you study history and the world the more connections you see, but also the more you are at risk of finding connections that aren’t fully there.
That said, you could be correct, blizzard could well have people on staff who are aware of Mandaeism, or even been influenced by it growing up.
I’d heard of the Two Wolves concept for internal conflict, I try to feed the one that doesn’t bite me… or the people I like.
Just looked up Plato’s Chariot, it’s interesting. Reminds me of some of the Buddhist concepts regarding the cycles and enlightenment.
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Fully possible.
Personally I’m more inclined towards this style of magic, if magic must have distinct concepts, or elements, than just have them be related by their ability to work together.
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Everyone brings up how WoW has Christian and Judaeic influence, but they forget it has Islamic influences too.
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Personally, I just go with Abrahamic myself… seeing as all three started with Abraham.
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Yeah but Madeaen is gnostic, all the abrahamic religions consider gnosticism to be heretical.
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Yeah, they tend to not have the best opinions of those outside of their echo chambers.
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I don’t think Fel in itself wi ever have redeeming qualities, but I don’t think fel is the only type of disorder magic, just like arcane isn’t the only type of Order magic (which is emplied trough dragonflight).
We could have disorder be manifested in other ways, and those ways could not be inheritly evil.
We see Holy Order Magic(a different shade of Yellow from Holy Light Magic) distinct from Arcane Order Magic.
Azeroth has it’s own Arcane Magic that isn’t of Order(according to the Aspects) so Arcane isn’t limited to Order.
With that in mind the Arcane Magic of Netherstorm is probably Arcane Disorder Magic not that it is any better than Fel Disorder Magic as though it won’t drain Life it will still erode it away(unlike Arcane Order which Crystalizes Life).