So let me start with, I have 4 toons Between 2650-2800 and all are aotc. This was done 100% pugging. Week 1, our PUG community of randoms got 7/11H at ilevel 248-253 and this was preprepreprenerf. Where normal Andy was on par with heroic jailer was before the recent nerfs.
I was reading this thread on r/wow and the comments are soooo toxic how people expect raiders in an aotc guild to run keys every week.
Not everyone likes keys and being overgeared for heroic raiding is bandaiding the issue. If your guild needs to be 270+ to kill heroic jailer that is a PURE mechanics fight then the issue isn’t gearing. We’ve done 30 kills as a PUG community this tier alone.
This is why I don’t care for guilds, people wanna carry their friends and family, blame the better players for having higher expectations than needed. Then they want to blame their top DPS who is 5 ilevels lower than the rest of the group for not contributing enough despite doing 50% more DPS than #2 and never dies on bosses.
Big agree. Keys shouldn’t be mandatory to be competitive in other content like raiding and pvp. And same goes for the reciprocals imo. Also the Vault is inherently flawed in that the better geared you are, the less value it has. That makes no sense whatsoever in terms of a rewards feedback system. Imo
I made a thread last year calling for the out and out removal of M+ from the game because it’s creating massive toxicity in the player base (on display below your post, honestly), requires enormous time investment to get literally nothing, is uninteresting, using M+/raider.io as a replacement for gearscore, M+ literally having killed off at least three guilds I’ve been in, is an entire gameplay style that is not applicable to the rest of the game, promotes exploits, etc.
I have a new issue.
M+ rating locking players out of upgrading M+ gear. What brain donor thought that one up? Players with higher rating LIKELY have higher ilvl gear. So the players that upgrading could help, particularly early on, get shut out of the system.
If you’re going to give me a currency, let me spend it. This ‘you’re not tall enough to X’ nonsense is tedium at its finest and is why I quit another game.
And while we’re on the topic, remove M+ from the game. It brings out the worst in everyone.
I have not seen those expecations.
On the other hand, our raiders (some, rarely me) meet on Saturday to do m+ runs; they are having a good time playing with amigos.
Farming keys shouldn’t be an expectation, unless maybe you start to fall behind in gear/performance. That said, I don’t care much for m+, but I do like running them with friends/guildies. It’s probably worth doing at least one key per week with guildies, assuming you actually like each other.
You realize you can unlock 12/12 upgrades for timing +10s right? That’s 272 gear for timing 10s. Heroic raid equivalent. No one is shutting anyone out. People want the most experienced players who sign up. If you can’t get in, then post your own key. Joining a key isn’t the only option.
Also, it’s not just AOTC folks who are expected to do M+, Cutting Edge raiders are also expected to do it, especially with how short raid tiers are these days and the resulting necessary extend-extend-extend pattern - which gives no gear rewards, unlike continuously failing keys which does give gear rewards. While progging in raids, you get nothing. While progging your IO score, you get showered with gear.
Ion’s been crapping on raiders since he took over in Legion. At every level.
Reclearing heroic in the world of M+ is such a huge mistake after the first few weeks. Unfortunately in AOTC and AOTC+mythic guilds it tends to be the worse players who need the gear the most who do the least M+. M+ has created this super annoying gear situation in mid level guilds where some of the team is like mid 270s because they do a ton of M+ and other people at like 260 because they don’t do any. Then the people who put some work into their character get annoyed at carrying the other people and the whole thing falls apart.
