Wanted to make a post compiling all the places we /know/ are tied to the Shadowlands or serve as portals to the Shadowlands in some capacity:
Giant doorway in Hellmouth Shadows in Stormheim near the Maw of Shadows entrance. If you go to the un-instanced spot where you blow the horn in the dungeon to summon the boat to take you to Helya’s realm (which is tied to the Shadowlands), you can see the giant runic portal door fully.
Icecrown Citadel. Already been established where the Frozen Throne landed is where the veil between reality and the Shadowlands is weakest. Similarly, that means Ulduar and Yogg’s prison where also extremely proximal to the Shadowlands.
The Necropolis (Bwon’s Temple in Nazmir in Zandalar). I mean the Troll souls are going to the otherside via the giant chasm behind Bwon, no?
Gol Inath in the Crimson Forest in Drustvar. The Drust use/d death-nature magic, Thornspeakers are described as maintaining the life/death cycle, Thros is described as tied to the Nightmare, Ardenweald is tied to the Emerald Dream, etc.
LIkewise, the Rupture under Waycrest Manor served as a portal to Thros as well.
Fate’s End in Stormsong Valley likewise has Thros connections.
Edge of Reality within Shadowmoon Burial Grounds in Draenor
A Dark Place which is a forest in the Shadowlands entered through the Emerald Dragonshrine in Dragon Blight, thus implying also a connection to the Dream (and thus Ardenweald, theoretically)
Altar of Quetz’lun in Zul’Drak, which admittedly is a pocket dimension within the Shadowlands created by Quetz’lun
Altar of the Blood God in Zul’Gurub, which also allowed for a link between Hakkar the Soulflayer in the Shadowlands and reality
N’Zoth’s Nightmare was purged. Yogg-Saron’s incarnation of the Nightmare is still there and has been since Andrassil and the Great Trees were planted.
That incarnation of the Nightmare never even showed itself to the Green Dragonflight nor the Druids while N’Zoth’s incarnation of the Nightmare showed it’s face the moment it was created when Xavius’s branch was attached to Teldrassil.
Doesn’t Chronicle Vol 3 state that N’Zoth gained entry into the Emerald Dream when Xavius had his branch grafted onto Teldrassil or have I misread things?
From memory, Yogg gave access to the nightmare to both C’thun and N’zoth. However N’zoth was the only one who did anything with it. Even before Chronicles, Metzen said back in blizzcon 2010 that N’zoth is the one behind it all. My guess is that is still true, I don’t think Yogg had any involvement with it other than finding the opening, which happened by accident. Stupid tree roots hit him.
if Thros is the Nightmare, and the Nightmare is a corruption of the Dream, and the Dream is tied to Ardenweald, and the Drust/Thornspeakers focus on the death/rebirth cycle of life, and this is the focus of Ardenweald which is part of the Shadowlands, therefore Thros is tied to the Shadowlands.
That’s… not how that works at all. Just because the Emerald Dream and Ardenweald are related doesn’t mean they’re one in the same. We’ve been to the Emerald Dream, but we’ve never been to the Shadowlands proper.
So no. Even though Thros is connected with the Shadowlands, it isn’t the Shadowlands. Alternatel is correct - 4, 5, and 6 are not existing portals.
I just went and checked it. What exactly makes you think it’s connected to the Shadowlands? It’s just a Runic Archway. Unless there are sources that I’ve yet to read, if so, please feel free to correct me.
It’s where the boat that came from and goes back to Helya’s realm comes out of in the dungeon; in the dungeon she gets mad you’re trespassing in her realm. You sound the horn and the cliff wall becomes a shadowy smokey portal and the boat appears and Harboron caputres you to take you to her.
I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the Drust/Thornspeakers were introduced same time and mostly as a parallel to Bwonsamdi. Sure, it might be dumb, it’s def a reach, but I’d bet good money Blizzard is going to go in this direction because of rule of cool and the need for a Horde/Alliance parallel tie in.
Okay, that’s just you betting money on it though. That doesn’t mean at all that Thros is the Shadowlands. You’re pitching this as a list of portals to the Shadowlands, but you’re admitting it’s just your theory that Thros is - you also admit it’s a reach. The introduction of it alongside Bwonsamsi likewise means absolutely nothing.
All they have said is that Thros and the Drust have a connection to Ardenweald - not that they are one in the same. The Val’kyr have a connection to Bastion, but that doesn’t mean places like Skyhold or Helheim are the same as Bastion. Likewise, the Emerald Dream is not the Shadowlands. Thros is the Emerald Dream. Therefore, the point remains that the gateways to Thros are not gateways to the Shadowlands.
You’re willingly choosing to be wrong. “I bet Blizzard will do this” isn’t an argument when you’re posing an objective list.
But that still doesn’t make it the Shadowlands though.
From the The Lost Codex 2018-11-03 interview:
As the war went on, the desperate Drust called onto dark powers. Unbeknownst to them, they had reached the Emerald Nightmare. Their fallen warriors would find refuge in Thros, an offshoot of the Nightmare which they named differently as they were not aware of what the Nightmare was.
Thros is the Nightmare, therefore it’s the Dream. And the Dream =/= the Shadowlands.
We’re debating your OP, which was about an ‘‘existing portal’’. You next quote:
Is sort of ambiguous as it could be understood that you’re trying to still stand with your argument. If not then you should have explicitly said so. Which is why both Grandblade and I thought you were still trying to find an argument for Thros = Shadowlands.
But they’re not portals to the realms themselves. The Emerald Dream, Nightmare, and Thros can all have connections to a plane of the Shadowlands without itself BEING the plane. So the portals you’ve listed are existing portals to the Dream. Not Ardenweald. Icecrown Citadel has deep connections to the Shadowlands, but that doesn’t mean it’s the same as Torghast.
If this was just a list of places where the Shadowlands had influence or something of the sort, then yeah, they’d belong on this list. The list would also become woefully incomplete. However, you’re pitching this as a list of outright portals INTO the Shadowlands themselves. As such, they don’t belong on it.
The actual quote from the interview muddies this a bit. At 7:14, Afrasiabi says this:
Um, so you know we wanna say the original inhabitants of this place were some sect or some tribe of vrykul, um, before the Kul Tirans arrived some two thousand plus years ago. Some great battle ensued, and of course, um, whether or not their intentions were good—the Drust themselves—um, we end up in the situation we’re in today, um, damning themselves to the darkness of the dark, and, uh, the death realms, or whatever that might be, which is kind of an offshoot of the Dream or the Nightmare itself, of course, um, and damning all of their people to the same fate.
OFFSHOOT
a thing that originated or developed from something else.
The Nightmare you fight in Legion is actually another offshoot, it’s the N’zoth offshoot. The original Nightmare and corruption came from Yogg-Saron, that used the roots of Andrassil to enter the Dream and corrupt the wildlife nearby. He also opened the way for his Old God brethren.
Just because Thros is an offshoot of the Nightmare doesn’t necessarily mean:
a) It stops being the Nightmare
b) Becomes something else entirely, in this case, the Shadowlands
I double checked the video:
‘‘It’s a place that exists already, we know it as the Nightmare ------ The effect and end results are the same’’
Edit: Corrected how Yogg-Saron is involved with the Dream, thanks Denona for the correction.
I don’t think it is said anywhere that Yogg actually did anything with the emerald nightmare other than make it. Since he allows C’thun and N’zoth to play around with it as well. However, N’zoth is the only one who has done anything with it so far. Metzen back in 2010 said that N’zoth was the one who was behind it. My guess is that is still true, just the origin of it got slightly changed with chronicles.
Also Yogg got access to the dream due to Andrassils roots touching his tendrils. It was not because of the world tree was planted on a pool of saronite. Otherwise Yogg would’ve had access to the dream from the other trees that were planted to soak up saronite. Which happened before Andrassil was made.
No, it doesn’t necessarily mean that, on its own. But Afrasiabi didn’t just say that it was an offshoot of the Nightmare. He also said it was part of the “death realms,” a term that has been previously used to describe the Shadowlands.
