I will mod these forums for free blizz if I can ban everyone on any side of an argument who uses the words everyone/majority/minority/noone.
You’re always wrong. Always. And you make yourself out to a jackass by doing so.
Please.
Stop.
Please.
Can we not just out right lie? Please?
No. SoD is on life support but era is in a coffin.
Explain how 40 people in a raid is more interesting than 10.
Not sure why folks want 40mans. 10mans offer far better flexibility on filling the roster, because most of us have more than one ‘max level’ alt. Add to that that most guilds have ‘more than just 10’ members. So if you’re a guild running two teams of 10, you can have a person from Team 2 run with Team 1 on an alt.
You can’t do that with 20mans, because there’s no ‘backup’. And I doubt very much people will join a guild to be benched ‘every other raid’ so said guild can get everyone in (to the raid) at least once a week.
…and it’ll be worse if it’s 40. The chances that more than one person may have to step out (family, personal, work, etc) is increased and now you need to pug more spots, which isn’t always bad. But I bet a lot of guilded players would prefer ‘all guild’ runs over ‘guild+PUG’.
This has been pretty noticeable for my guild. In P2 if someone had to miss a reset, picking up a pug two was pretty effortless. This phase, you have 3-4 calling out, every guild on the server has been recruiting anyone with a pulse and naturally there are less alts. We ended up just 17 manning it last week, and once attrition/boredom starts kicking in I fear it’s only going to get worse.
How does having less slots improve flexibility?
As if this doesnt happen with 10 man? It probably happens more with 10 mans actually.
With 40 mans you generally just take warm bodies, and especially in classic you DO NOT need 40 people to clear the raids.
These 10man only requests are just Anti-social, Anti-MMO behavior
This is a lie. I want 40 mans too.
Only raid organizers hate 40 mans, most real players prefer them.
Wrong. 10 mans mean you have less flexibility. You are forced into much stricter raid comps to fulfill all the neccessary buffs.
Also 10 mans are not raiding, they are dungeons. People want to raid, not do dungeons. There is no epic feel to dungeons. Pretty easy to understand.
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Make ony 40 man and introduce a new 40-man that only has a boss or two and can be pugged like ony. Maybe the Timbermaw Azshara portal?
Everything else 10/20 man. Read the writing on the wall guys, 40 is not the future of SoD.
This is true, but has been the direction of the player base for a lot of different reasons. WoW’s push towards more single player content, cross faction/server mythic etc and reduction in raid sizes is fairly telling of this.
I imagine most people playing SoD were playing it with the handful of wow friend’s they’ve kept over the years. So you’ve got your 8 man crew or whatever, picking up a few randoms or hopefully making some new friends a long the way is much more appealing than running your own 40 man guild (on a seasonal beta test server), or being a cog in the wheel for some 40 man.
Ideally yes, people would use that as an opportunity to make new friends and build new communities, but they don’t.
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As I said, if you have a smaller ‘team size’ you’ll probably have extra members in the guild. So you could run two teams on staggered days while still having a small guild.
ie:
Team 1 runs Tuesday/Thursday; Team 2 runs Wednesday/Friday. Team 2 is made of 5 alts from Team 1 and 5 ‘core members’. – Guild size: 15 members.
However, if it’s a 20man. Then this guild of 15 must always find 5 PUGs or they just don’t raid.
If benching is happening then that’s because the guild isn’t running more than one team on a staggered raid schedule.
Blizzard acknowledged the ‘40 man design’ wasn’t working.
You also forget that Blizzard opted for Instanced Raids as oppose to the ‘open world Raids’ that EQ had. So right there, Blizzard was already running afoul of your “anti-social; anti-MMO” stance by making raids smaller than ‘half the server rollin up on a boss’.
Only if you’re Parser. Like, come the F on. People were clearing BFD with ‘all mage’ just for funzies.
I find taking a small team in far more ‘epic’ than fielding a small army to do the same thing.
Log on and see for yourself.
This would be completely unnecessary with larger raid groups.
This was opted for in later expansions, SoD is being built off of vanilla which has multiple open World bosses requiring 40 man raids. If what you’re saying is true why would they base the game in Vanilla?
Not to mention getting rid of 40mans will completely push what’s left of the vanilla fanbase away from SoD, myself included.
Why does any of that mean they have to keep the exact same raid sizes?
What bosses can’t easily be tuned for 10 or 20 man?
I’m not really sure how to explain it to you since you clearly disagree with me.
To me everything just feels bigger when you have more people. Having 39 guildmates in a raid is simply more engaging and a larger scale.
10 people doesn’t feel like a raid at all. You can’t even have all the classes and specs in the raid at the same time that synergize to make the raid more powerful.
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More people doesn’t make raiding better 
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You can in 20 man.
You can sure. It still doesn’t lend as well to flexibility. I’d like to see groups with pally priest mage and druid healing.
When it comes to raiding in Classic, to me I just feel like a 20 person raid is a 3 day lockout with some catchup gear just like the old days. A 40 person raid is a massive team effort to do what is essentially extremely easy content. I will maintain the size of the raid is the only thing that made the content engaging at all.
But that’s just like my opinion man.
40 man raids were awesome in classic.
The reason why these may not work in sod is the player base and thats it.
In classic you took 40 people, you didnt care about the “meta” as much- you took your tanks, you took your dps, and you took your healers. You didnt log check every single person. You just went into the raid - and guess what? You cleared it rather easily!
In sod. Its everyone looking for specific classes WITH certain standard of logs. Gatekeeping and excluding majority of the player base. This was happening in almost every single PUG group in LFG channel which was laighable. I remember abandoning my rogue in p2 because i literally couldnt get a group for a raid. That just isnt going to work for 40 man.
Groups will be forced to lower their standards for invites which will be good for the game.
There is no reason for it to be tuned to 10 man, other than Anti-social / Anti-MMO pandering. Not that hard to understand.
Less people doesnt make raiding better 