Exchanged narratives, how would you feel?

Lore Story Forum
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Greetings everyone, so i was wondering how you may feel if,instead of the current narrative in your faction, you get the exactly same (or as much as possible) that the other side is having?

Alliance stories always have been more about “tragic” narratives, like elegy proved.
While horde is more about some bad guy doing bad stuff. and “military genius”
But what if… in bfa we had the exact opposite?

In this scenario, the alliance is being incredibly evil and taking the war on their terms.
instead of attacking lordaeron, they would attack and obliberate thunder bluff first in the most horrible way possible for maxium feelsbadman value.
This alliance attack has to be with the deliberate purpose of triggering the horde playerbase resulting in the demand of alliance blood and heads on pikes.

What if, instead of sylvanas starting the war and being a “military genius” is an alliance character? and this alliance character tries to reproduce as much as possible the current portrayal of sylvanas being genn,jaina,anduin or (insert hated character)

You would get more or less the same experience.
Except that, zuldazar would get the kultiran treatment and some character gets a story about “redemption” or something like that (the most closest example in the horde would be thrall)

While kultiras would have more or less the same story as zuldazar (with some changes to fit the current hypotetichal scenario, like jaina being around to be able to take the leadership at some point)

So we end up with a story about the horde being “heroic” or “renewal/redemption” But at the same time, being incompetents in some aspects.

While the alliance would get the “evil” narrative and failing most of the part. but “winning” the 2 biggest battles in the pre patch.

It all lead up to 8.1, in this scenario, the horde would have been the ones who strikes boralus, this attack on boralus is effective and they manage to kill the current lord admiral. (katherine)
But is all for nothing, since the one who is ready to take her place is a much more better choice as a leader and is the one who finally brings kultiras into the alliance. (debatable of course but is all for the sake of the hypothetical scenario!)

and please, don’t forget, in this hypothetical scenario (lets call it, alternative universe) The nelfs are the ones attacking and killing,and stealing from the other side, let’s say that with the help of elune they start converting former horde heros to serve the nelfs and the alliance! (tauren heros, i guess!)

It all lead up to the alliance at the brink of civil war with strong disagreements with their leaderships and some characters start betraying the faction.
some are #teamrevenge while others are #teampeaceandlove

While i would also love to debate more about this “alternative universe” beyond 8.1.5 we just don’t know enough.

So, as for 8.1.5,at this point in time, how you will feel about the narrative?
Your faction?
Your characters?
I wanted to see your opinions on this before showing how would i, as an alliance player feel.

And true, this scenario maybe destroy some characterizations. so the question would be:do you enjoy something like that?

Who will benefit more from this, the horde or the alliance?
And you would trade narratives?
the alliance being the super bad guys who can do what they want and never pay enough?

Or the horde being incredibly incompetent to the point that even their attacks don’t feel like complete victories and serve as a plot device to the other side and eventually forgive the alliance?

Thanks for reading.

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No.

The Alliance don’t deserve the Horde Story any more than the Horde do.

Final Answer.

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When they told us BfA would be another faction war story and sold it to us with the Alliance invading Lordaeron, I was very excited. The Alliance on the offensive, driving the conflict, was exactly what we needed after Cata and MoP and Garrosh in general. All these war hawk Alliance characters were going to cause some havoc, I could tell. I mean, they wouldn’t just redo MoP, right?

How stupid we were to expect anything but.

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The irony of this is that while it would fix some things, it would ultimately just feel like status quo for the alliance at this point.

The idea that the alliance finally gets off their collective behinds and decides theyre sick of the horde’s stink would have been awesome and made players feel like they finally get to have revenge. Some would feel shock that we went so far but given everything the forsaken have done the last multi-expansions I bet most players would say they had it coming and wouldn’t see it as a villain bat. The loss of Teldrassil would feel like a fist bump because they denied the Horde anything and the elves could still easily recover unlike the undead that need fresh corpses.

Where this all goes downhill is after that, each zone is a loss just like cata. Every victory is somehow completely worthless, something the alliance player base is very used to. It’s stonard all over again. “Yay hero, you saved the day! Except nothing has visually changed and you’re needed elsewhere and I’m sure it’s fine.”

And then the kul’tiran, you know that last bastion of humanity that we haven’t heard about since War3 finally show up and they get slapped hard. (I admit I’m biased since I never gave one fig about the zandalar. The only trolls I like are forest trolls and blizzard was as kind to them as any troll ever. Which is to say raid material and forgotten about.)

So yeah, alliance gets one moment that feels out of character but actually refreshing and then dumped on the entire expansion emotionally/visually and then we harm two horde leaders and have to deal with horde players furious about it.

Now I’m going to get hate I’m sure but if you’re still reading, all this was to say I don’t want either faction to have to deal with status quo. I don’t want the Horde to feel like loser villains just as much as I hate alliance being off screen winners. Both feels like garbage to the player!

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I’m not sure I’m cruel enough to want to wish how awful this expansion has felt to play as Horde on the Alliance playerbase, but…

I want it. I want it so bad. I want to be the underdogs fighting for survival the game promised me that I’d get to play in that first BfA trailer. I want the victories that feel bittersweet and weak, but honestly earned. I want the defeats to be atrocious and fill me with righteous indignation.

I want the game to remember that Horde cities have civilians that aren’t comic relief or unsympathetic.

I want a power-up for a Horde leader, even if they’re defeated right after gaining it.

Sure, losing named Horde characters would kind of suck in the equivalent of the Darkshore patch in this scenario since we don’t have that many to begin with, but I’m pretty sure we’re on route to losing plenty on our current path anyways.

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I would like to see how the factions react with an aggressive Alliance and a defensive Horde.

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i don’t think that i understand you answer.
Are you saying that the alliance don’t need to have the same story that the horde is having?

i mean, yeah, it would have been great if the “self-righteousness” alliance tried to impose their tyranny and racism. one of the biggests flaw of the faction and bfa could have been a great opportunity for that.
but with anduin in charge?.. then why not make someone else to take the title of high queen/king?

And how we can make the alliance proactive with the incredible superior military force to even have a war?
like, after legion had to be one of the worst times to start a world war.

Status quo of the alliance?
with internal conflict and some betrayals? that isn’t status quo, that is revolutionary.

But that pretty much already happened with ashvane.
So an attack on them and the death of katherine in a raid and her hated child taking the leadership could also have been a great story
lets say, is jaina herself the one who leads the defence of the city so people may start feeling different towards her.

There are many interesting scenarios in this alternative universe.

Haven’t you think that… you had more in common with the alliance than the horde?
Because “tragic” narratives is what the alliance is about.
But thank you so much for your answer! it is incredibly interesting to see other perspectives.

You would also be okay with attacking someone who you never heard and killing her (katherine) but that would end up backfiring because the most “qualificated” leader would take her place?

And of course having to beat in a raid one of the horde’s iconic characters for human related xmog.

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Alliance rising up to cleanse the world of the Horde wouldn’t come out of left field, it would’ve led to an interesting divide because the rabid Alliance that want to reclaim the Holy Land and kill all Orcs have been part of the playerbase since time began.

By having Anduin go contrary to his beliefs of peace in an attempt to appease others and try to prove himself as a good king, it would’ve led to an interesting narrative about Anduin learning to embrace who he really is rather than being the God King which he’s currently established as.

In comparison, the Horde narrative would’ve benefit greatly from an aggressive Alliance. Sylvanas and her extreme actions could be argued as being necessary for the survival of the Horde.

When Saurfang protests about the use of the Blight and Sylvanas disregards it as necessary, the playerbase would’ve had a divide rather than being set up in clear camps.

Saurfang would’ve had those who supported him because they truly believe that ethical conflict should be conducted.

Sylvanas would’ve had those who supported her because they truly believe the ends justified the means.

The issue is, Sylvanas being the instigator of the conflict makes this point hollow. Sylvanas and her reasoning and the ethical dilemma exists but is undermined by everything being her fault.

With an aggressive Alliance, those who don’t like the war would feel obligated to fight it because they’re fighting for their right to exist. Rather than the current predicament where the Horde players who hate this stupid war are fighting an Alliance that doesn’t want to fight them and surrendering to them would likely lead to a preferable future/outcome than continuing the war.

In addition, it would’ve given the framework for a Sylvanas redemption story that’d be believable. She truly does believe in the Horde and want to save it, she’s just doing it the only way she knows how much to the chagrin of others.

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I’d hate it. I don’t play the Alliance to be the bad guys. And destroying Thunderbluff is out of the question for me. The Tauren are one of the most innocent races on Azeroth and one of the only redeeming parts of the Horde aside from the Darkspear and Blood Elves.

I’m not one of those people who think the Alliance is boring, I’m fine with “boring”. It means the government is stable, the leaders like each other, and they don’t start stuff for no reason. And it makes sense because most of the Alliance are well established nations with governments that work. The Horde is the opposite, this breeds chaos, especially with such differing cultures and the Warchief position which is essentially a Dictator.

I have no idea why some Alliance players want drama in our faction. I’m totally fine without any leaders turning evil, or civil wars, or purges.

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This is beautiful. If this were to happen, and Baine continued to be some traitorous pansy, I severely doubt anyone would tolerate him any longer. He’d either man-up (or maybe bull-up) to defend the Horde for real, or he could go off on his usual shenanigans with Anduin-kun :heart_eyes: only to become a “Legitimate Culinary Target” for some hungry orc soldiers.

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Honestly, I reckon they could have kept the story as is except have Teldrassil come after the Undercity battle. Like it was implied in the cinematic that sold me on the expansion, you know? The Burning is still an atrocity and over the top, but it has a rationale based not in ‘They might make war on us’ but ‘they are making war on us’. I don’t think the story as it is worthless, just that the context of it is a total [heck]ing mess.

As for a swap… you don’t want the Horde story. From my perspective, though? All of our non-Org cities are trash, it would not have hurt to lose one of them. Having the Nelves be forced to burn Teldrassil or have it captured wouldn’t phase me. Having the moral highground over the Alliance in a war they started, though… that I could savor for a long time.

So count me in on a swap, I don’t have the Alliance’s addiction to refusing to accept victories because they have some mud on them. I’ll take your toys if you don’t want them.

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The story would have made 10x more sense if the burning of Teldrassil had been a response to the loss of Undercity. Especially considering Sylvanas had already done enough to justify an attack on Undercity BEFORE Teldrassil.

It also would have been SLIGHTLY less boring if we’d gotten “MoP, but it’s the Alliance this time.” instead of “MoP, it’s exactly the same.”

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Change ThunderBluff for Quel’thalas and we might be talking.

In this scenario Liadrin will be Delaryn :smiling_imp:

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I am fine with the current Horde rationale for war. If things were flipped… I would be just as fine. It would simply make Sylvanas more correct.

I understand why Alliance players would be upset about it. When I play Alliance, things arent as ominous as when I play Horde. There is a hopeful resilience in the air, and faithful allies.

On the Horde… we are all sick of each other and we dont trust each other. The Alliance is assaulting us, Ghuun is there, Zandalar is in shambles, the Warchief may be selling us out, and even if the Warchief is true to the Horde, Baine and Saurfang are selling the Horde out.

I would not wish to disturb the heroic quietude of the Alliance. I would not want to curse them with the Horde’s story. One Faction may as well have good feelings.

Thrall thought bringing life to Durotar and suffering would be a form of atonement for the Horde. We also bear the cross of in game playable villainy and musical Warchiefs. It is OUR burden!

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Turn her into an Alliance Void Elf? God those Horde tears would be as salty as the Dead Sea.

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Noble answer.

Yes. I would switch, but in the end I wouldn’t wish it on anyone. And putting it on Alliance would have hurt the game just as much as putting it on the Horde.

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Yes.

Make it happen.

I’d rather have the straight forward story where the other faction is the villain than have to live through another pointless ‘civil war’ where we tear ourselves apart.

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You ever read “Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?” page 20?

---------------------------------//----------------------------------

Varian watches Garrosh walk towards a door that read 'Bad writing: villain batting- KEEP OUT’ … “And by the time I realized where he was heading it was too late. As he walked into the blinding golden light he turned, and looked back over his shoulder. He smiled at me.”

“I never saw Garrosh again.”

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Change Thunder Bluff to Silvermoon and I am 100% supportive of this story.

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I’ve thought about it. I’ve tried out playing the Alliance side more than a few times, but generally, I don’t like a lot of their races outside of Pandaren and the Lightforged. I don’t like their stories much. I mean, I don’t like the Horde tearing itself apart every week, but I still love what the Horde promised me, even if it isn’t giving it to me right now.

I love the idea of traditional monsters trying to better themselves. I love how awkward and dysfunctional the Horde can be (not on a civil war level, but y’know, I like tension and little catty interactions), because that makes it feel more powerful when they do work together. When everyone’s expected to work together and be friends all the time, it feels less impactful to see it play out well.

Plus, the Alliance guilds I’ve joined have always ended up never working for me for certain reasons I’d never experienced to that extent Horde-side.

I don’t necessarily feel anything in particular either way on the concept of defeating Katherine. In this theoretical story, I wouldn’t be terribly invested in it, but not exactly opposed to it. And I think having a new character fill her place would be understandable.

As far as fighting a Horde character goes? I’m not opposed to it. I don’t necessarily resent the idea of fighting a Horde character in the way Jaina’s being fought in the raid. The scenario makes it clear I’m not the one fighting her, which is generally my biggest hang-up for killing Horde characters as a Horde player. I don’t want to fight the Horde as the Horde, but playing as a fake Alliance player fighting the Horde to see the story? That’s different. And, honestly, I think it’s a chance to see a character I like doing cool things in a way I don’t usually get to see them. I like the End Time fights for similar reasons.

And dropping human-related xmog? I don’t have a big hang up on that. But, then again, I’m pretty picky about the kind of xmog I like. I’m not after specific racial ones.

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