Why should it matter if the Horde is evil? The target is the Alliance anything the Horde does to them is something that has been a long time coming.
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Most people who play Horde donât want to be evil. If the Horde is supposed to be both, then let players decide.
I donât understand why in order to have faction conflict, we need an expansion for it. Canât people turn on war mode?
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If this is going to carry on like this, just-- just let me be neutral, or even defect to another faction. At this point I will would be loving the idea of enlisting my green skin at northshire. Humans hate me? Not for long when I show them what orcs can do for their âlocal-troublesâ (there, I sort of fixed that). I think my tauren might like that to. Iâm sure they could just allow us to settle in that bum-ridden mess that is westfall and our shamans could clean up the swirly vortexâs and other garbage left over from cataclysm.
They canât seem to write the horde to have it get itâs crap together without it becoming another accessory to some nu-scourge or legion-tier threat. The very face of the horde was warped when they allowed blood elves to come on in (not to mention starting us with the Forsaken). The undead should never have been in this faction. The night elves also never really meshed into the alliance. Sure you could have highborne, but it should have been blood elves. The night elves hated the way the other races gathered lumber, they hated humans as much as they did orcs. They seem to despise industry, and loathe magic, putting them in conflict with everyone from orcs, to dwarves, to gnomes, and even high elves. The night elves strike me as a side that would have allied with malygos and actively hunted magic users while sabotaging industrial sites.
We in the horde were more similar in ways as just the trio starting out. The trolls, tauren, and orcs. When we started getting thematically and culturally non-compatible races added in, even from classic, it changed and pulled us away from what we were when we ended the battle of Hyjal. Now it seems like it is almost unsalvageable. Especially when we got pandaren. Those guys belong in the alliance. We could have gotten Hozen, or Yaungol.
I could see the mantid joining the Forsaken however. Grimtotem for Forsaken as well. With the night elves sharing Tauren with the horde. Even throw in the Sanâlayn, and maybe vrykul into the Forsaken mix. Retcon their size if there is an issue. Orges can come back to the horde. And maybe even open the doors to goblins, as long as we kill gallywix first. I donât approve of the draenei retcon. They should have stayed those ugly creatures you found in WC3. They should have found another race or used blood elves.
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disgustingâŚ
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Not as disgusting as scourge-bait. But yea, that sentence might be too easily toyed with, if I can shove aside my chronic lazy-ness I will try and tweak it. But by now it is probably too late anyways.
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![:stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye.png?v=6" ":stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:")
Thought we in the thread agreed earlier that support cannot be inferred from the current writing, given that theyâve shown both Nathanos and Saurfang being less than fully onboard?
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In political science there is a difference between support and agreement. Support means actively still actively aiding in further operations, participating as part of government, and other methods that give legitimacy for the actions taken by the stateâs leadership. As a group, the elites of the Horde (that being the military and civil administration) are still actively supporting Sylvanas as Warchief. Baine is a perfect example. Baine disagrees with Sylvanasâ actions, yet continues to support the Warchief by not challenging her authority as well as taking actions that support her initiatives and increase her legitimacy within the context of the Horde as a state.
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I get that, but Iâm not convinced the game writers intend to portray things to such a fine degree of subtlety. They are not political scientists, after all, and theyâre clearly not ready to spend screen time showing anyone challenging Sylvanasâ authority or ceasing to take âactions that support her initiatives and increase her legitimacy within the context of the Horde as a state.â I believe they think that by showing Nathanos, Saurfang, Baine, Valtrois, etc. disagreeing with her actions, they have removed what you call the âproblematicâ aspect.
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I think we can agree that they are WRONG, but it seems very likely that they do, indeed, think that.
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The Horde is evil so long as they play host to characters like Sylvanas, make these people their leaders, and follow their directions without question.
At this point, the Horde has been evil longer than theyâve been good.
And judging by the opinions and feelings of many Hordeposters, this is a feature that they approve of.
So⌠get used to it I suppose.
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Deliberately misleading. I wonât call it logical, but I can 100% understand why we have many players backing Sylvanas out of simple indignation at the hamfisted storytelling and dissatisfaction with how theyâre presented all possible alternatives to her.
I still want her out, but even among those who donât, the âyass queenâ crowd is nowhere near as dominant as you pretend.
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Pellex, I was the one to use âsupportâ, because I was using it in the political science context. When I say it is problematic, I am saying it because I, like kirango, donât believe it to be blizzardâs intent to portray it that way, but rather a byproduct of their crappy framing.
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Which really arenât as bad as you all make it out to be. Speaking honestly here. Because things will only get better after that.
Itâs this whole stubbornness that pisses people like me and other Alliance fans off that you arenât willing to even make one single concession so that the story can do away with Sylvanas for good and we can all finally move on. The fact that you support her out of spite for Alliance players who have done literally nothing to you, all for the sake of the grim satisfaction of honoring your pitiful faction pride that died out a long time ago.
âOh no, canât afford to let the Alliance get one leg up! Durrr, gotta refuse them out of spite! Because god forbid we try to work with them towards a common goal, hurrhurr!â
This is you. This is you and literally every other Hordeposter that thinks like you. Arenât you ashamed of what youâve become? I sure am.
And sure, go ahead and grab all your Discord cronies to report me for this post if I hurt you and anyone elseâs wittle feelings. The vacation is well worth it to just get this out in the open.
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Iâll be blunt Iva.
This is one of the most pathetic things Iâve ever seen posted on the Story Forum.
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I still want her out, but even among those who donât, the âyass queenâ crowd is nowhere near as dominant as you pretend.
Did you just stop reading there, or are you deliberately misrepresenting my own position to justify your toxicity?
Speaking of which, for what Iâm not naive enough to hope is the last time, Itâs not spite towards the Alliance players, Precious. Itâs spite towards the writers. We both know that thereâs nothing inherent to Sylvanasâ character that made this the only way things could have gone. We donât blame you for her derailment. We blame the people who shoehorned it in in a cynical ploy to build as much hostility between the playerbases as possible.
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Why? Because it perfectly sums up the reasoning behind your line of thinking?
No, I read your post. But the fact that you support those who represent the types of people I described in my post makes you no better.
If you think thatâs my mindset, you clearly donât actually understand a word Iâve ever posted.
But considering you seem to interpret anything thatâs not âKILL SLYVANASâ as âyaaasss queeeeenâ thatâs not really surprising.
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I said I understand them, Sparky. Doesnât mean I endorse their position, just that I sympathize with their anger.
Also, there are no people like the ones you described.
There are people who honestly like Sylvanas.
There are people who back Sylvanas because all of our alternatives are shown with more sympathy towards the Alliance than towards our own faction.
There are people who back Sylvanas simply because itâs clear the writers donât want them to, and the writers have long since squandered any benefit of the doubt or goodwill.
There is literally no one who is indifferent to Sylvanas as a character, EXCEPT for her ability to rile up alliance players. Thatâs a straw man, and we all know it.
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