Everything you're asking for will lead to retail

[Feywaif-atiesh]

@Jaire-grobbulus

we’re wiser than we were years ago.

I think the wise thing blizzard should have done was to add dual spec and the lfd in vanilla.

[Jaire-grobbulus]

@Wafectus-deviate-delight

So what? Guilds don’t own the rights to raid entry.

The destruction of guilds and community is a core retail characteristic.

I’m not sure you can say that 1. “Guilds own raid rights,” but if that was even a relevant statement, then 2. It’d be wrong I think. Guilds are an anchor to the game. Classic anyway.

[Wafectus-deviate-delight]

Yeah I get it. I’m not allowed to access raids how I want and under my terms, unless I go to retail.

[Jaire-grobbulus]

I think dual spec is ok in TBC since it’s so close to Wrath anyway. Though some argue it changes playing habits and patterns In a negative way.

I don’t think it would have been good for vanilla.

[Drosul-whitemane-646426]

@Wafectus-deviate-delight

Yeah I get it. I’m not allowed to access raids how I want and under my terms, unless I go to retail.

I’ll be honest, I would be astounded if naxx 25 isn’t being pugged more than it’s being guild ran, if they don’t up the difficulty. The difficulty is literally BELOW nearly every LFR encounter I’ve ever seen on retail. EDIT: In fact, numerically speaking, it’s almost identical to naxx 40 from vanilla/classic

[Jaire-grobbulus]

Of course you’re allowed to. But to the detriment of a core feature of classic WoW, community. That’s all that’s being said.

And this kind of statement kind of makes you seem like an individualist. WoW retail might be more suited for you bc if this. Classic WoW was built around community. Not the individual.

[Wafectus-deviate-delight]

You’re talking to someone that rarely ever got to do any raids, so for someone like me they are still very much difficult and uknown.

I didn’t get to do so much as a single MC in vanilla. When classic was announced I thought things would be different and raids would be more accessible. I was wrong.

[Jaire-grobbulus]

Did you not have a guild this time around?

I totally get that some people like to roll solo. Even so, i see alot of PUGS for earlier tier content.

Are you on a dead server?

[Wafectus-deviate-delight]

The problem is…

@Jaire-grobbulus

community

is too abstract and an ambiguous thing to define as it means different things to different people.

[Deathsbounty-dalaran]

Idk I like retail.

More buttons more pump more fun.

Also jaire is a lemonfront alt.

4 threads in two days. Sigh

[Mootwo-earthfury]

@Drosul-whitemane-646426

The larger issue that brought that suggestion, however, is a pretty open acknowledgement that the 2 faction system of this game is largely a complete and total failure that is doing nothing but artificially cutting the player pool in half. Nearly every realm is already single faction, and the population of the game as a whole is dwindling.

Yeah, I kind of gave my opinion on that yesterday, where the faction war stuff adds a lot to the game for me and makes it unique instead of yet another single faction MMO, but I can respect your opinion on it.

I can tell that you care about the game. This is good.

I hate the current one faction mega servers. I even just moved my druid to Faerlina for my guild only and I have absolutely no desire to log in and do anything outside of raiding despite people saying “there’s so much more to do” (there’s not), but at least the guild survived the move and that’s huge since that’s a big part of why I play.

Anyway, Grobbulus is still a fun server and the rest of my characters are there. You’re right though about what most people want, which to me is a lot like Retail. Which is kind of the point of this thread.

I also have zero problems with people who like Retail, it’s just not a game for me. Classic when it came out was like finding my favorite game again after 15 years, everything about it. So it’s crazy that the game as a whole has a more Retail vibe even now. After only a few years. If the game starts only involving playing with strangers again where you are only a number I’ll just cold turkey quit again.

[Elorael-remulos]

@Mootwo-earthfury

People on the Retail forums have said the other players in Retail are like NPCs, why do some people want that so badly here? I don’t even think a lot of the current player base wants an MMO. They just want their purple loot to stare at.

The ‘faceless NPC’ effect starts with the cross-server element of LFD, and just as it did back then. However, if it stopped there, or LFD wasn’t cross server, it would never have become the thing is is today. LFR, seamless cross-realm sharding and all the “group with random strangers you’ll never see again” stuff that happens now is the largest part of Retail that makes it the soul-less mess that it is today.

And almost every person you ask who is 100% excited about retail will also be in an organized Mythic Raiding group or a Mythic dungeon team, or some other group that doesn’t actually use those tools (or not much) because they have their social network already pre-formed.

[Deathsbounty-dalaran]

LFD would have saved about 20 servers in tbc and lost blizzard a few million in xfer fees.

You must be a blizzard share holder lol

[Emmortahl-nazjatar]

Love these threads that act as if community feedback has any actual impact on what they decide to implement or leave out.

[Cauchy-heartseeker]

I made this post some time ago:

Do you like Retail? Keep following the metas

Since the announcement of Classic, there’s been a lot of buzz about #NoChanges and “authenticity.” Many of the same folks will follow guides and “metas” to the letter. In the end, I feel they’re shooting themselves in the foot. Large groups of players following metas has lead to many unpopular changes. There’s a strange sense of irony here, though… folks really should have seen all this coming. After all, anyone who’s been playing since before Cataclysm should recall some of the big shake-…

[Phrozen-grobbulus]

I dunno, Classic or TBC or Wrath with:
Dual spec, Cross realm/ Cross Faction LFG/LFR, updated models, Calendar, Cross realm sharding, Warmode, Void storage, Transmog, Personal Arena Rating, Shared Nodes Achievements/Titles/Mounts.
Sounds pretty legit and Casual/Alt friendly. Heck they could even add a Mythic+ to Raid for try hards. But that’s just me.

@Elorael-remulos

And almost every person you ask who is 100% excited about retail will also be in an organized Mythic Raiding group or a Mythic dungeon team, or some other group that doesn’t actually use those tools (or not much) because they have their social network already pre-formed.

Those Tools are for leveling, not really for end game. I bet all those people you just described love those tools while leveling alts to use for Mythic Raiding.

[Sur-kromcrush]

If you didn’t do any raids, that’s 100% on you. You’re either extremely toxic and nobody wants to group with you or you’re incredibly lazy that you can’t be bothered to open lfg chat and join 1 of 100 pug raids

[Mootwo-earthfury]

@Elorael-remulos

The ‘faceless NPC’ effect starts with the cross-server element of LFD, and just as it did back then. However, if it stopped there, or LFD wasn’t cross server, it would never have become the thing is is today. LFR, seamless cross-realm sharding and all the “group with random strangers you’ll never see again” stuff that happens now is the largest part of Retail that makes it the soul-less mess that it is today.

And almost every person you ask who is 100% excited about retail will also be in an organized Mythic Raiding group or a Mythic dungeon team, or some other group that doesn’t actually use those tools (or not much) because they have their social network already pre-formed.

I agree with all of this. The biggest problem is that if you go to Retail and try to find these groups it’s next to impossible. I don’t even just mean Mythic stuff, even a casual group. So I’m not saying returning people can’t find this but I am saying it’s not easy. I tried 3 times, it never worked. Classic was like you meet people easily and find a guild that you will be part of for over two years…

As for LFD being the start of this, there’s some truth to that. I’ll agree with the other post that it could have helped with some server issues we’ve had, but it is kind of the start or grouping randoms together automatically if you don’t include battlegrounds.

So I’m not really a big fan of adding in a bunch of tools that make things impersonal like you’re saying. If it’s just things like the collection tabs and the like it doesn’t really matter.

[Despitebeing-incendius]

Yes that is the natural end-result of playing on a progression server.

[Fasc-atiesh]

@Jaire-grobbulus

We are repeating the cycle all over again.

Yes. That’s kinda the point of Classic… to take all the steps between Vanilla and Retail and go through them again, with some modifications here and there where the game truly could do with some sprucing up.

That’s fine. The Devs have said as much. It isn’t anything to stress over. Your “classic” experience is already filled with WCL min/maxing and obliteration of any struggles or challenges. Relax and enjoy the ride.