Everything about new Fodder to the Flame is worse for Havoc

I’m going to list both the downsides and upsides of new Fodder and then explain why this leaves Necrolord Havoc DH worse off than they started. A lot of these downsides derive from the same change that isn’t listed on patch notes and only serves to cripple FttF, and to me makes absolutely no sense why it was changed.

The pros are pretty self explanatory but they are not enough to compensate for the negatives included in the changes.
Pros:

1. Throw glaive guarantees to kill the demon when you want

Throw glaive being a oneshot means you don’t have to waste another GCD / change positions to kill your demon if you got unlucky and didn’t kill it on the first one.

2. Added AOE damage (though this has a big caveat)

The added AOE is obviously a benefit, but the reduced damage on more than 5 targets makes it worse than the extra 10% flat damage buff on heavy cleave that lasts more than 10 seconds due to all but 2 of Havoc’s AOE abilities are softcapped at 20 targets.(Blade Dance, Fel Barrage[LMAO])
The ~7k damage from the explosion is also worse on single target compared to the longer duration of the old Empowered Demon Soul. So even with ~1.5RPPM 7k per proc does not come close to the extra damage that you could get out of an Empowered Demon Soul window.

The cons on this list are a little more complex and as I said most of these downsides come from the same issue.
Cons:

1. You can no longer properly control your damage window

The change from a cooldown to a proc is understandable at face value, but the lack of control over this damage buff means it can go largely wasted a lot of the time. In addition, you cannot save it for a burst window in a raid or dungeon so your damage at any point in time relies entirely on RNG. As every other covenant can make sure their burst dps occurs exactly when they want you will be almost guaranteed to fall behind in these scenarios when being able to use a CD is vital for a particular pull or mechanic.

2. ~5% increased uptime traded off for 10% of damage buff

This one is straight forward, lower damage for less time and the AOE explosion does not compensate nearly enough.

3. Other players can cleave and target the demon.

Other players and enemies being able to cleave and hit your demon is my biggest issue with the changes and takes even more control away from you as you can’t even control when or where your demon dies in addition to not being able to control when the demon is summoned. This makes absolutely no sense to me why it was added, it sabotages the benefits of the changes. You can’t make sure your demon dies in the middle of a pack, its more likely to die before reaching you, and forces you to run out to grab the demon soul rather than just waiting for it.
In PvP this makes new FttF entirely useless as its an easy target to kill and you can’t capitalize on procs without running out.

4. Proccing 2 demons close to each other does not extend the buff, as the duration caps out at 15 seconds

This is maybe more an issue with the Shattered Souls passive but is made more apparent when the demon soul buffs are essential to your DPS. This creates an issue where if you do manage to chain procs you could lose the majority of a window from a seemingly arbitrary buff time cap. Since we’re not in Legion anymore, we see basically 0 demons in the game and I think getting rid of or extending the time cap is a no-brainer at this point.

5. 5% extra self heal that is worse than the damage reduction and often completely wasted due to lack of control.

This issue is created mostly by the other changes and doesn’t make any sense as the vast majority of the time 20% and 25% max health will be indistinguishable and is a huge loss from the damage reduction received from the previous version.

6. Brooding Pool conduit now seems pointless to take as lower initial buff duration and damage bonus make it objectively weaker than it was before.

This one is the least of an issue and seems like an oversight to not change how it works along with FttF. At the moment Growing Inferno and Relentless Onslaught are taken every time over Brooding Pool as extending a window you have no control over is only likely to give you a few extra chaos strikes/ 1 blade dance.

Overall, I get the feeling that no one play tested these changes properly and/or didn’t play the previous iteration of FttF. Which is disappointing because I was under the impression that the changes were meant to bring Necrolord DH closer to the other covenants in terms of damage and effectiveness when it seems they achieved the exact opposite.

27 Likes

whatever necrolord virgin gonna keep cleaving your cringe demon down for more dps

5 Likes

real and true.

real and true

real and true

Well said. They need to fix this.

true and real

1 Like

real and true

1 Like

real and true

1 Like

real and true

1 Like

real and true

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real and true

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Completely agree, I went necro on my DH because I’m not trying to minmax and I thought it was a fun ability. But it’s so frustrating to not be able to control the procs anymore.

Like every other class gets to decide when to use their covenant ability?? But I just have to reserve a glaive throw and pray??

I feel like the burst window is the best point here, I don’t mind the tuning so much because that’s always fixable (if they choose to tweak those numbers), but it just feels awful to have no control over what’s meant to be a defining feature of the expansion, especially when bosses like Sludgefist exist that dramatically overvalue being able to choose your burst window.

if you have more than 3 mobs in a pack and you glaive the ricochet might not hit him, so you add another mob to the pack. then trying to target him is a pain =(

You’re right, I forgot about this.
And to add on, a problem with the original that gets worse with this iteration is that you cannot macro to target them quickly.

is sad to see this happening to DH class, unbound chaos went to so many iterations, they move talents around all this since beta. and we still have to heard them saying " we pay attention to the community, we listen to your feedback" all the ideas that have to be in the great minds of the developers, the cool comments in the forums and they CANT GET IT RIGHT! over and over =( … is like they scratch their ears with the opposite hand behind the head. when the implementation are so easy

I leveled this char through Maldraxxus following the story. For all my time in Maldraxxus all 4 hours of it I did not get one proc of the passive. Not one proc at all.

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This is really truthful.

I like it…

AE damage
25% heal
15 sec of 20% damage increase
Empowers Fleshcraft

Sure I get moments of a proc shortage… but I also get times of perfect procs and have stayed empowered for 45 sec

In addition it is really good if you play VDH and helps out there quite a bit.

i dont think you really get any AOE damage, mine explotions form the demond are less than 5% of my total dps. compare what i got form ventryl or the hunt that is nothing!.
the healing is nice yes, but when is needed, demon appear that the worst random moments, 15sec use momentum and assure wen you need that boost and not a random very large weird intervales.