Eternity's End Time: 10.0 Theory

Lore Story Forum
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It’s widely known that the top contender for the next expansion is the Dragon Isles, but what we don’t know is how we get there and why. We have little to go off of for what happens at the end of the current raid, but we do know that Zovaal is trying to suck out all the azerite and that we defeat him. While we probably do save Azeroth, it’s possible that Azeroth gets significantly damaged. Two groups of creatures that have been ordered to protect Azeroth are dragons and titan keepers, with Ysera and Odyn having minor roles in Shadowlands. If you know Odyn’s lore, you know he has no love of dragons.

Should Azeroth be badly damaged, Odyn might put blame on the dragons for not doing enough and seek retribution against them. All of the dragons plot threads have been tied up except for one, which is that of the Infinite Dragonflight. The Infinite Dragons are a product of the Old Gods, and if you remember the End Time dungeon then you’ll remember that Baine, Jaina, Sylvanas and Tyrande are bosses in that, all of which have been prominent characters in Shadowlands. These are characters who might be central to the next expansion again. If they are, it’s possible that Tyrande’s judgment of Sylvanas will be for her to help fix Azeroth due to her involvement with the Jailer.

If you remember the Timeless Isle, you’ll know that one of the last quests involving Kairoz shows the death of Soridormi, with the implication being that grief over the death of Nozdormu’s mate is what causes him to become Murozond. To connect this all together, a theory I have is that Odyn will be the villain of the next expansion due to starting a war with the dragons and he will kill Soridormi, causing the Infinite Dragonflight to come into existence. After whatever happens in the pre-patch, Odyn will go to the Dragon Isles and we will follow him there. Thus, we will fight the Infinite Dragonflight there along with Odyn and his forces. But who will help Odyn?

There has recently been a theory that Valor is a type of Light magic in the same way that Domination is a type of Death magic. With the Light being considered a future antagonistic force, it is possible that a Light crusade arrives on Azeroth and Odyn sees them as a way to restore Azeroth. To take over Azeroth, they will have to get rid of the dragons. But with Blizzard taking the story into a “new chapter”, they might want to get rid of a lot of characters to replace with new ones, and to do this they would use Light affiliated characters to be villain fodder. So it would be Baine, Jaina, Tyrande and Sylvanas versus a quantity of other lore characters.

This Light crusade could be the “true End Time” that Murozond saw. Maybe perhaps as a twist, we end up helping the Infinite Dragonflight against the Hand of Valor. This would be a cosmic expansion without focusing on the Light realm in the same way as Legion. I feel that since Blizzard hasn’t given any official hints to the next expansion yet that it probably has a major theme that’s already established which will be used with huge ramifications.

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This would reinforce, if not validate, my concerns about poor-writing and villain-batting of Light-related things.

Using the Light as the true “End Times”? Working with the Infinite Dragonflight against the “big bad Light”? You even said it yourself;

There are parts that have potential - Odyn’s grudge and resolving the dragon’s story issues. But on the whole, no. Just no. I personally find this one step away form going full edgelord or “His Dark Materials”.

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I don’t think villainizing the Light is bad writing. I think it’s good writing. A force that is entirely good is boring.

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I disagree.

Given how poorly written things like Xe’ra and the AU Draenei were, Blizzard doens’t seem set to handle it well. If you enjoy it, that’s fine, that doesn’t make it good quality writing (guilty pleasures are a thing, and the same can be said for some things I like) or make me wrong about its potential descent into edgelord-ery.

An all-good force can be well written and interesting. There are many ways to have conflict or tension with it, even without making their opponents evil. The above is just the morality of it; an all good force can still fail, make mistakes or be deceived. They can even lose battles or have setbacks.

There’s also a difference between giving a good force bad elements and retconning it to be all bad.

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Does it have to retcon it to be ‘all bad’ though? Sure, villain batting characters is never good but that doesn’t necessarily mean the Light is just going to be pure evil as a concept now.

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The situation with Xera is one of the best pieces of writing in World of Warcraft. They made it look like they were going to use her as a plot device for a faux-redemption for Illidan, then surprised everyone with what happened. That is how you properly subvert expectations. Illidan didn’t need anyone else to have him be redeemed, he did it himself by saving the universe with his own abilities and plans. It’s a lesson in believing in yourself and allowing your own confidence to guide you.

I’m not here for Hello Kitty Island Adventure. This is a universe that has had dark themes since the beginning and you need to accept that.

Do you think Anduin is well written? Because he’s pure good personified. There is no tension with him. Making the Light an antagonist allows for it to fail, which gives it more dimension since it’s seen as a force of healing. This has been done with Life, which is obviously important for the universe so it can thrive but we see that too much of it is a bad thing, as seen with the Botani and how it infects people.

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The Hand of Valor being the new antagonistic supervillain is exactly the bladder release Vol’jin needs for his not-piss-soaked-enough ashes.

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Does Vol’jin even care about his ashes anymore, I’ve been carrying that urn for far too long.

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We won’t know for another two expansions of forgetting he exists. Just a couple of “oh, don’t worry, Vol’jin still has a part to play…” at Blizzcon immediately followed by frantic whispers off-stage: “Quick, cobble together something lame for Vol’jin!”

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If they manage to top getting stabbed in the gut with a poisoned blade in his first ‘real’ outing as Warchief I will be very surprised.

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So Eternal Ones are made by Robotic chassis + ‘cosmic spirit’… and we have a pretty good idea Zovaal’s chassis is left behind inert given his death model. So the real question is what rips his spirit out of his body? And where did it go? The answer to what actually happens in those critical moments likely informs a lot of 10.x

They are trying to introduce new hostile forces to build up their roster for the next era WoW, so I am expecting the unexpected, likely

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Xe’ra reads like a writer’s punching bag and/or the strawman in an edgelord’s power fantasy.

It’s like they took the picture an angsty 14 year old in class drew where a buff version of themselves murders their teacher or mother… and turned it into a cinematic.

And I think lessons about self-confidence work better when the challenger isn’t one-dimensional or easily defeated (like getting one-shotted by laser eyes).

There’s a difference between subverting expectations and lazy writing such as the conflict ball, idiot ball or villain ball. And a difference between “believe in yourself” and “no one tells me what to do!”. There was a lot of “tell, not show” for everything involving her.

I’m not here for His Dark Materials or Warhammer: End Times. This is a universe that has also had light themes since the beginning. Fortunately for us, the game can have both; problem is, it’s being pulled too much towards one side. Even when there is a way to have Light villains, it’s not this way.

No, but better written than Illidan in my opinion (who, for one, literally needed his story retconned twice to even look heroic).

You don’t need the Light to be an antagonist for it to fail.

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We do have the Ilgynoth line that the Light made a bargain with the enemy of all.

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The legion doomsayers have been on my mind recently, particuarly about the crooked eyeless serpent which will terrify the Void and Light into working together.

In Shadowlands they made a case there is a seventh force locked outside the multiverse by the First Ones. “The seventh covets what the six hold fast”.

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Stop using buzzwords you don’t know the meaning of. That’s not what a strawman is. An edgelord’s power fantasy is a Death Knight, a class that has to cause pain to living creatures or else the person goes insane and attacks everyone, which is what you play.

You’re acting like villainizing the Light will turn WoW into Garth Ennis’ Preacher.

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Xe’ra was well written.

Xe’ra was very obviously biased and untrustworthy (she talked up Illidan… and then showed us him doing terrible things) and even Turalyon had to make excuses for her actions in regards to Alleria.

We’re also shown she hid things from Turalyon (https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Shadow_of_the_Triumvirate) and was willing to do terrible things for her cause, including the rather unfortunate non-consent parallel she tried with Illidan.

Anything to do with her was suspect from the get go, people just refused to see it because they were too “OMG ILLIDAN REDEMPTION” to notice the warning signs.

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That still doesn’t make me wrong about Xe’ra. And I also said she seems like a writer’s punching bag.

A Demon Hunter is more of an edgelord power fantasy than a Death Knight, being a class that blind themselves and get themselves possessed by demons they have a grudge against or turned into one… and have to fight it forever while siphoning power from it/fight their destructive urges or else it takes control/they become what they’re fighting.

With good reason given how poorly written Xe’ra and the Mag’har recruitment scenario were plus you’re literally calling for the Light to be all villainous in the OP.

I disagree.

Showing Illidan doing terrible things makes Illidan look worse than Xe’ra.

Xe’ra hid one thing from Turalyon. Saying she hid anything else at this point is just fan theory or headcanon.

People just refuse to see the problems with how she’s written because they’re too “OMG, I LIKE ILLIDAN THE WAY HE HIS”, “OMG I HATE GOOD VS EVIL”, “OMG, REBELLING AGAINST AUTHORITY IS COOL” or “OMG, ILLIDAN’S SO STRONG” to notice the writing flaws.

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Nice dodge.

Velen’s dialogue disagrees.

Yes yes, because they disagree with you and your totally not biased view of all things Light.

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Quote-mining me rather than actually engaging my arguments. I’ve never seen that before anywhere. :roll_eyes:

Right back at you.

“Show don’t tell” > “Tell, don’t show.” Velen did the latter. What else specifically did Xe’ra withhold from Turalyon?

That doesn’t address my actual argument points or make them wrong.

Side note: I never wanted Illidan to be a “Champion of the Light” I thought it could possibly work, but it would need great care. I wasn’t hoping to see it - if anything, I thought Illidan was unworthy of such a position.

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That’s not what quote-mining is.

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