Well from my account they will see a gap from like 2009 to 2019…
They will also see my attempt to try shadowlands and quitting after 15 min (the second I was forced into a vehicle quest, I logged out my cute goblin priest), 2 weeks of attempt to enjoy tbc, but tons of playtime in Era.
Side rant: Vehicle quests are the worst. No wow expansion with vehicle quests will ever be good.
My account is not permitted to post links which is why I have to butcher them. You’re welcome.
My mistake was thinking you could be persuaded by reason and common sense.
That’s your two bit hack analysis of what you think Im doing. Im revisiting the question of whether classic players prefer RDF WoW to no RDF WoW and since we are now in a legitimate position to assess that, I noticed that a metric ton more people prefer Wrath with RDF and now Cataclysm in comparison to Era which is more or less what Brack was driving at. Then I backed it up with tons of relevant information.
Brack said you think you do but you don’t and cited a specific example to back his assertion - RDF. And he was convinced of what he was saying. Lets assume he is referring to vanilla in particular since it was only vanilla and TBC that didnt have RDF, the advocates at the time weren’t asking for TBC Classic and TBC doesn’t make much sense as a starting point for Classic WoW. Unless someone has a better assumption.
Now its all ancient history at this point but lets say you wanted to “fact check” any kind of validity the statement may possess, which scenario would you think is best suited for the task? Is it the one where we just get a vanilla-lite relaunch and thats it? Is it the one where we get a relaunch and just a bunch of spin offs of the one game? Or is it the real world scenario where players begged out of vanilla almost to the point of extinction, drove the thing to the RDF expansion (and beyond) while begging devs for the QoL feature referenced which would assuredly give us a far more concise view to see where all the dust has actually settled in relation to the comments that were made?
I don’t know about you guys but Im going with that last one. If we want to examine it today, well, Brack was right beyond a shadow of a doubt. If it helps you to sleep better at night to pretend otherwise, please do so with my blessing. Tell yourselves whatever you need to sell your story, just don’t get it confused with mine.
He is right today, but perhaps in under a decade, ‘Era’ or ‘Vanilla’ or whatever derivative from it could have millions of players whereas the retail timeline and current cata are wound down.
The 2030 Era fresh server could have VR access and be the first wow season to hit 10 mil players.
Neither is mine - that is why I learned the trick with the preformatted text.
I appreciate the tip but it’s not something I’m really concerned with. You asked, I delivered.
Update: now level 51 with 1.3k gold, ready to buy epic riding when I hit 60 
Ohh, stay alive!
This is one of those two things can be true situations.
There are people like me, and there are the people who were the die hard private server Vanilla crowd who wanted Vanilla. The hardcore people, the rankers, and the speed clear players. A bunch who have no interest in anything that happens after Vanilla. Probably the best PVP Warrior that I’ve ever seen didn’t stick around for later versions of the game. The game for these people is Vanilla.
There were enough people though that wanted the game to progress forward and to see TBC and WotLK so it worked out the way Blizzard did it.
I enjoy TBC and could probably play fresh Vanilla through TBC a time or two again. What is clear to me though is that there are a few different kinds of classic enjoyers.
People wanting vanilla was never in doubt. In regard to the Brack comments, its about how many people want(ed) it in relationship to the people who want more modern WoW and there is a huge disparity there.
It requires a little reading between the lines and some extrapolation but Brack was saying they would rather focus on retail because millions of WoW players would prefer that over vanilla. The player response was “you’re wrong” but it turns out the opposite is true.
And all that is really my main point - the players largely proved themselves to be hypocrites and it wasn’t pretty. Not Mootwo, not Tubbly, not Corpseknife but the overwhelming majority of classic players thought they did but didn’t. I guess some of those folk don’t want to be associated and I dont blame them but I prefer an honest narrative to a phony one that removes that burden.
Its all water under the bridge for me, I got what I wanted - well mostly anyway. Official, permanent Era servers. That doesn’t make us any less hypocritical as a player base though.
Until now, the core our our disagreement revolved around the interpretation of “you” in JABs statement and who specifically it was directed at.
My position is that it was directed at the question asker, and those players who supported the idea of a re-release of previous expansions. From my point of view, JAB was wrong since those players very clearly did want those previous versions, played then, and many even continue to play them to this day.
Your position is that it was directed at the global WoW community, all players, not just those who had a particular reason to play Vanilla and were perhaps already doing so on a private server. From your point of view, JAB was right since not everybody participated in Classic and stuck with it, Vanilla in particular.
However, what you’ve introduced here is something new. You’re now accusing people, as a whole, of being hypocrites. For this to be true it would require that a significant quantity of players who asked for something, presumably any version of WoW Classic, played it, found that it was not to their liking, and abandoned it.
This is a very different statement, and a bold one at that. Do you have any evidence to support this claim?
Which makes very little sense upon any critical examination because Brack didn’t preface his response with who he was going to be talking about specifically and he referenced RDF. So if RDF did not come up in a personal conversation between the two parties prior to the question being asked he is either reading the dudes mind or making a general statement about the habits of the WoW players as a whole. Which is made more obvious to me by the fact that he is delivering the answer from a stage in front of a live audience of WoW fans at a fan conference so devs can communicate to their fans in person.
Again, he was saying that the majority of WoW fans want to play modern WoW not old WoW. Thats the whole point of the RDF reference. They knew a minority wanted vanilla, its not like that question was never thought up and presented to them before. In that moment he’s saying Blizzard has no interest in doing it because they don’t cater to niche audiences and never have. It was a poor choice of words but thats what he meant.
What makes it laugh out loud hysterical for me is if he really did mean it the way you’re interpreting it, he’s still right anyway because the overwhelming majority of the classic players didnt stick with vanilla when other options came available and then begged and pleaded for RDF. So it doesnt matter to me how anyone interprets it because he is right either way.
Its not so much a point of view or personal perspective as it is an observance of self evident realities and how they relate to the commentary in question. More Classic players are in Cataclysm - a lot more - that should tell you something.
Not really. In one of my earliest responses to you I said it was more of a commentary on players as far as I was concerned.
Its not an accusation. The players are hypocrites and pretty much always have been in one form or another. Ive outlined how and why in this particular case more than once.
How do you figure? Where’s the logic that clearly makes this the only way it can be looked at and assessed? But lets assume that you’re correct. Wouldn’t a starting point of 3 million players down to 20,000 (which had to be built back up to after losing almost everyone) be a significant quantity of players finding it not to their liking and abandoning it? Is 2,980,000 not enough?
Now of course you’ll counter and say I dont know how many of the three million actually asked for vanilla and dipped but that would come with the implication that you know - but since you dont have any idea either its a pointless exercise, like every other of your refutations.
We can only work off what we know and can observe and when we do that you lose the wrangle.
Critical examination is apparently quite subjective.
To me, one can only infer that when a direct question was posed to JAB by an individual, JAB was in turn responding to directly to that person. It’s not a stretch to think that he was also responding to the other few like-minded individuals in the crowd who applauded the question, but hardly to the masses who did not ask, and were not asking for previous expansions.
You’ve chosen to interpret that differently I suppose that’s your perogative. You’ve made your stance clear and there’s hardly much value in us continuing to say “your’e wrong!” “no, you’re wrong” anymore, is there?
In the context you suggest, they’re only hypocrites if they asked for Vanilla (or TBC/Wrath) and then did not play those versions of the game because they did not contain the quality of life features that they expected from future versions of WoW.
That is inline with the very definition of hypocrite, one who says one thing and then acts in a different way.
So my question to you is, do you have any evidence for this? Who are the people who strongly advocated for Vanilla, TBC, or Wrath and then abandoned those games shortly thereafter?
Surely people tried it out and left, but that does not imply hypocrasy of any kind.
The flaw in your reasoning is assuming that those 3m players were asking for Classic to begin with, and before JAB made his statement. You cannot know that and really, it’s extremely unlikely.
Furthermore, I think you may be misunderstanding what the Classic player trend is showing you. Perhaps you are not familiar with gaming trends, but we can look at another example to gain some insight. Helldivers 2 is a recent title that is generally regarded as successful. Using steamcharts.com we can see that it initially launched in early February to ~440k players, which has steadily declined around 50k over the course of 4 months. Currently, that’s a retention of around 11%. This trend is common, feel free to use that website to sample several other popular games, especially ones that operate as a service and provide continual updates.
By contrast, using the same source you’re getting your data from, we can reasonably infer that the launch of Classic in 2019 brought roughly 3m palyers back to WoW. There’s probably some play in there as BfA had a content patch not too long after but we’ll roll with it. We absolutely do see that bump in players decline, but generally hold to what is likely around 1.5m players until shortly before TBC, at which point it dropped off sharply, though given the reception of Shadowlands it’s reasonable to assume that a fairly significant portion also came from that crowd.
Still, what we see is 3m players joining and half of them sticking around for at least two years. By all reasonable measures, WoW Classic was extremely successful. I would be very interested to see if there were any other titles that have released in the last decade that have peformed comparably with regards to player retention.
So in addition to my previous question of what evidence do you have for hypocrasy, I will ask you another one… Do you feel that players must commit to a lifetime of WoW Classic in order for them to not be hypocrites, or do you permit them to play for a while, get what they want from it, and then move on to other things?
It sure is, like how you just casually ignore the RDF reference and pretty much all other evidence that isn’t in keeping with your narrative. Why is he bringing that up again? Brack just instinctively knows that kid is a phony and wants to clown him in front of a whole crowd? Make it make sense.
But apparently its a huge, no, its a positively incorrect stretch to assume he might be talking about more than the 5 people you keep referring too - because Blizz apparently holds conventions with public Q&A’s so they can chat it up with minority factions of their player base on a one to one basis. So, according to you, only the guy who asked the question and the four people who clapped are entitled to the answer because they demonstrated some kind of loyalty to vanilla? Can you please back that up with something credible because we are all still waiting to see the logic that explains why and how that is irrefutably the case in full view of the real, actual evidence that contradicts you?
Wouldn’t the masses that didn’t ask and didnt applaud just be more evidence that the larger subscriber base doesn’t care about vanilla? Yknow, like Brack said in his answer. Well?
Go read what I wrote which wasn’t any speculation on my part. Ive only brought it up like three times. They’re hypocrites because the games lead told them to their faces that they really dont want to play that old game to any significant degree and they’re stuck like chuck on their training wheels QoL and a not unnoticed amount of players fought back saying, that very much indeed, they did love the old game, would love to relive the experience, hated QoL with a passion and every other thing they could say in response.
Then we got a date, then we got streamers promoting the hell out of it and what it means and how great it was, nochanges museum piece foreverrrrr yaaayyyyy and then it launched and we couldnt make it to through the BG patch without making a complete mockery of the whole thing, a slew of people quitting in a downward trend ever since and begging for TBC with paid character boosts and ultimately, RDF.
Now we are on to Cata and its like Im the only guy thats noticed that something hilarious and sad both has happened on my watch right in front of me like a twilight zone episode. Brack not only called it, he owned us, over a decade in advance. We thought we got him but he actually gets the last laugh here assuming he actually cares anymore which I doubt. I know I don’t.
But one day, Tubbly, I hope to aspire to your level of courage in the face of absurdity and perhaps, if I just clench with all my believer might, maybe I can the see the 20k left that are keeping the faith with parses, GDKPs and mage boosts and tell myself, yeah, we showed him didnt we boyz. Next to no one clapped at Blizzcon when someone asked, thats all the proof we need to say we deserve to be here.
Why don’t you ask yourself what the point of asking for evidence is when its been given to you multiple times, you’re just going to obtusely ignore it and then just retreat to your own unverified claims and arguments anyway? We’re hitting epic levels of irony here.
What flaw? Where? Why? How? You’re just saying it, you’re not demonstrably proving your point.
I never said that, implied that or used it in an assumption. 3 million came back for Classic. Its not important if they specifically asked for vanilla or not. You never established why this was important. You just said it was. Its not. And you can never know the real number or even hazard a guess worth anything in an actual discussion so its pointless to even bring it up - this is the problem logic has with youre argument - mainly you dont have one and there is a mountain of evidence against you.
Here’s what you can say though, it wasn’t a whole heck of a lot of people.
Yeah for Blizzard. They didnt think you actually wanted to be here at all and now we are repeating history on a smaller scale and buying character boosts, WoW tokens and upgrade packages on old content so they’re cashing in. Says a lot about us.
If you said WoW Token, paid boosts or RDF on this forum right before launch you would have been targeted and shamed. These were all huge talking points for vanilla advocates in the years leading up to launch. Then the majority begged for them and got them.
The problem isnt my evidence, its your eyes.
You know, you could have saved us all a whole lot of time if, when asked if you had any evidence to support you claim, you just said “no”.
itt habitual whining neighbor dumps garbage on corpseknife’s lawn then is all surprised pikachu face when confronted
Who doesnt love a good ol’ the facts are your opinions and my unsubstantiated opinions are the facts discussion with people who have zero clue its their personal bias doing the talking?
The only thing Im saying no to is your lame belief systems and any hope you may have had of outclassing me in this discussion. I just gave you the evidence you asked for when you asked for it even though I dropped it on you 8 times before that and this is the best you can do with it.
Ill take this copout as the sign of my victory. Thanks for playing.
This is the dude that accused Blizzard of “tricking” him with the clone option.
It’s all about the feelers and lashing out at those that make me feel bad/foolish.
Acknowledging that a statement had some truth to it doesn’t mean the person vocalizing the idea should be canonized or something.
JAB handled it like a dbag but his words were shown to have truth. Sad but true. Otherwise we wouldn’t be here retreading discussions about the token, shop goodies, rdf, gdkp, etc.
His words were prophetic. Out of the mouths of babes dcanoes.
The only real counter argument to my argument (which is less my argument and more my acknowledging and pointing to the truth) is it was just a coincidence. I even accounted for it by starting off with “looks like a prophet” and “more of a commentary on the masses (for my part, which it is), correct on paper” Etc. Just in case someone tried it (I think it was stated at least once) and since I was open to the possibility it was, however unlikely, a big coincidence, as someone might have something to add that I hadn’t thought of before.
Also, that way no ones feelings get hurt because we could instead debate the likeliness of it being a coincidence instead, without saying one way or another. People wanna play rough though, which is unfortunate.
More like todder discovers stove is hot.
News at 11.
You wrote a 1000 word essay but failed to answer the question posed to you. You made a claim, you couldn’t back it up, I’m moving on. You’re quick to proclaim how logical and factual you but you’ve got a funny habbit of talking nonsense.
That was a while ago. All I was really asking for was better realm connectivity, which I think we got. Apparently your reading comprehension hasn’t improved in two years.
Both of you acting like forum thugs is cute though 