Epic battlegrounds why alliance can not win?

PVP Battlegrounds
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I am sure the trolls will be here as soon as i post this but I will /ignore them.

The question I have is why does alliance not change its tactics? I know 25-40 pugs all with different ideas on how to win is not conducive to this the trolls will say but I believe that some changes could be made by blizz to balance things out some.

I also wish you could get a premade together join an epic and get the random awards or at least some value of those awards.

I do the pve quest but I do not dungeon unless absolutely necessary. I am a casual player of pvp not hard core no arenas i hate that stuff. I just want to come into wow do some casual pvp and earn some conquest for my rewards. What I do not want to happen is play 10 epic’s and get 1 win.

I kept track yesterday out of 14 randoms epics 3 wins , 11 losses. If it was complete random it would be closer to 50/50 or hell at this I would settle for 60/40, 40 being the alliance win ratio.

Now in AV the horde have gy commanders with huge aggro and health pools. Where are the Alliance counterparts? At SPGY and SHBGY we have no commanders counterparts, check that out next time you run an AV.

So I am ranting a lot on this post, I know that and some of it out of order but I would really appreciate some positive feedback from players (horde and alliance) and I would like a Blue response for the GY commander question.( but I know I will not get one because we all know blizz favors the horde in all things wow related)

thank you the
signed
the ranter

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Play against the teams that I’m on and your win rate will increase.
It takes me about 3-4 epics to win my 1 daily.

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It’s not bliz’s fault that alliance can’t win. It is the players. New players are attracted to alliance when they start. It seems that eventually, a good majority go horde. They have the experience and the upper hand on the ilvl of equipment. just a +10 ilvl difference between players can make a difference. That is why alliance loses. People think that they can gear up by coasting through a 40v40 bg. Sure, a couple can, but when a good chunk of players are low ilvl, it’s a slaughter. There is no fix for this. If you have ilvl brackets, the que times would be huge.

I like the alliance, but pvp is such a frustrating experience, I am considering of not doing it at all on my alliance toons any more.

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Hi OP. Alliance can win epic BGs, but they generally have to: be as well or better geared than the horde, be on the same page with a strat to follow, have enough good players/strategists (at least 20+) doing the hard work and ‘calling the shots,’ and essentially not have trolls or defeatists.

Sometimes alliance can luck out in the sense that the horde team they face is more than half full of idiots/bad players/alliance rerolls, is lacking enough of certain functions such as heals or a tank, and/or is worse geared.

JMO alliance have gotten a bit better overall since 8.3. I think it’s partly a gear issue (more well geared players on alliance side than before), which in addition to being important in group fights also impacts on how easily NPCs and vehicles can be brought down. And some alliance teams do seem to strategize a lot better than before and don’t repeat the same losing strat over and over and over like they did pre-8.3.

[edit]
One last thought is horde at times seems to play sloppily because they (strangely) take for granted they will win. That is the main issue with horde IMO - to maintain discipline and deter complacency in the ranks. :stuck_out_tongue:

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Half of the epic maps have imbalances, namely Ashran and Alterac Valley. Wintergrasp is plagued by playability issues (the first fight determining the outcome followed by large amounts of desertion making it impossible for any type of comeback) and Isle of Conquest you will see is the one closest to equal in terms of win %s but is also in a bad state at the moment where one node is superior to everything else because players have more health than demolishers and approx 2-3x more health than glaive throwers.

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Ive said it a few times, AV and Assran require no coordination for horde to follow a linear strategy to win. WG defence and IOC are the only 2 linear strats for alliance, horde have 4 simple linear strats to win, alliance have 2.

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Laziness, stupidity and timidity – the same reasons any team loses.

These are all very old games. People choose to play poorly.

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A harsh but true statement.

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^^^^ I know right?

  • Alterac Valley: 15(?) year old bg?
  • Isle of Conquest: 10+ year old bg?
  • Wintergrasp: 10+ year old bg?
  • Ashran: 6 year old bg

I recently pointed ^ this out during a (yet another) failed Alliance AV match, but was basically told “quit crying” :roll_eyes: :woozy_face:

These bgs are not rocket science, a lot of Alliance pugs just need to get gud. These epic bg maps are old enough (in terms of years) that there really is no excuse to not have at least a “general idea” of what to do by now.

Why is it that what is considered “common knowledge” on Horde side (such as NOT capping Snowfall GY, actually backcapping/defending, focusing healers, etc) needs to be “explained” to Alliance pugs - such that they rarely do these things unless they are “told” to do so?

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We had to urge to Horde players from 2010-2018 to backcap, not take SF and not to zerg Balinda.

Horde players didn’t suddenly get good, win rates changed after BL was removed. Players with knowledge of AV/IoC were forced to play them again and carry the mediocre ones to victory.

Now the zergers just remain quiet and follow us.

The issue is Alliance had nearly free wins for 8 years and still haven’t adapted to Horde defending while advancing.

In my last AV, the Horde actually zerged Balinda which cost us the game. Players listened to them for some reason.

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Well said! It’s interesting how much the initial push matters. If it didn’t work out, lots of alliance player just simply give up, instead of thinking for ways to turn it around.

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Another real answer, at least for epic BGs:
Blizz needs to stop allowing games to load/start with one team being down 10+ players. I think this still happens to alliance during certain hours, and it isn’t right. This really should’ve been fixed shortly after it was first pointed out, months ago.

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Even after 15 years Blizzard doesn’t deal well with rejection. If enough players queue and then don’t join when the BG pops, there is a melt down.

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Putting it simply with Epics: If the game isn’t a steamroll people throw up their hands and afk out and then people afk for people afking. Then the people that take their place see a losing game, throw up their hands, and afk.

Meanwhile the other team takes map control and steamrolls the enemy while high-fiving.

Pretty sure this happens on both factions but lets be real: it’s mostly Alliance.

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You did better than me.

I queued into 15 games over two nights, and only won once… Wintergrasp… and it was a literal last second clutch at that.

It really is awful for Alliance, and some of it must come down to design. Other BGs Ive been playing dont have such a disparity of win/loss ratio.

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That’s pretty good win %. Keep tracking it, you will see Alliance Epic BG win rate is closer to 5%

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Statistically speaking your sample is irrelevant.

Overall the difference in wins is something like 54-46 on all pvp bg accross all servers.

That will not translate into you specifically in your server at the time you play having to win 54% of the time always.

There could be a group of skilled players randomly happening to run bgs all day and that’s just bad luck.

Mostly there’s a perception that alliance looses all the time, something that has been passed down through expansions and compounded into the myth that is today (i just won 5 bgs in a row and lost 1, that too was statistically irrelevant and was just luck of having about 3-4 players who communicated and took lead)

In bgs you don’t have a lot of control on the outcome because of so many people involved much less in epic bgs.

What you do have control of is watching guides to specific battlegrounds, and while you might just want to play to increase your win chance you have to try and lead.

Communicate with players and give directions if no-one else is. Or most importantly follow directions if someone is already taking charge. Any plan is better than no plan so pay attention to the chat.

Asking why doesn’t alliance change it’s tactics is a meaningless question since if there are no leaders there are no tactics.

You get two minutes before the bg starts to make decisions.

There’s a lot of bgs that people go into thinking fighting and killing players is what they must do but actually manning vehicles/towers or protecting them is the most important thing.

Have been in bg’s where horde didnt touch our glaves after we got docks and we pwned them, and in others where they’d send fmages and rogues on suicide missions to kill glaves and pwned us. In others where they dismantle our towers methodically and destroy us and in some where they ignore towers, try to breach walls and get bombarded into oblivion.

Tell people what to do, when there’s vehicles present you can minimize low ilvl players negative impact by having them man vehicles/turrets.

Communicate, communicate, communicate, there’s no ilvl substitution that’s more important than that!

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Unfortunately, Alliance pugs have a tendency towards incompetence in epic bgs, so that’s something else factoring into their lower winrates - it’s not just lower gear/skill working against them.

Some examples…

  1. in AV, stopping/dismounting to fight the 100% optional “commander” NPCs (they have tons of health and take like 5-6 minutes to kill)
  2. also in AV: dragging “commander” NPCs into the boss room during the boss fight, causing Drek to constantly heal to full (can literally cause a loss if it’s a neck-and-neck DPS race)
  3. common incompetence in all the epic bgs: capping a flag and then just running off, leaving it unguarded :roll_eyes: :man_facepalming:
  4. fighting like 60-80 feet AWAY from the flag at hangar in IoC or a WG workshop, you’re never going to capture a flag fighting like that :man_facepalming:
  5. in Ashran, standing in 100% avoidable AOE abilities such as Crushing Leap or Living Bomb… I’ve even seen a bunch of random deaths to common trash mobs over at Ring of Conquest due to Alliance pugs standing in 100% avoidable “frontal cone” attacks
  6. universal derpyness: not killing/focusing the healers in teamfights

And the list of incompetence goes on, there’s plenty of examples from Alliance pugs in epic bgs.

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19

Horde are Raiders and thus they have significantly better gear. Where most of the alliance doesn’t Raid or Grind PvE. Some do but not enough to matter. In a 40 vs 40 the team with Raid gear, essences, rank 15 cloak and high level neck win.

If you bring back only PvP Gear in PvP from vendors Alliance will win Epics.

Facts are Facts.

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Truth!

It’s not just gear. I have seen some of the dumbest things fighting for Alliance today. Was in IoC a short time ago. 15 people jumped into the Horde keep to fight Horde and run bombs after we took hangar. 15!

So what did that do? It basically left the Horde with glaives/demos and gave them free reign to destroy the gate. Naturally, we lost. Just left Wintergrasp. Horde broke through the walls while much of the raid group was fighting for SR and East workshop.

It’s not just gear!

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