There are over 15 years of precedent for limited time items existing in WoW. Considering the fact that no side of this argument is morally correct and it is all just opinion and differing points of view, none of which are right or wrong, precedent is clearly the most equitable tie breaker. That and the fact that keeping your word is usually preferable to breaking it, is likely the core of Blizzard’s decision here, and it makes sense to me. The fact the rest of you can’t wrap your heads around that baffles me.
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No one is deciding how you feel about it.
I couldn’t care less, but I have a right to be against your ‘stance’.
And you telling yourself a thousand times something is ridiculous doesn’t change how [no body will feel less as a person if something is brought back]. ESPECIALLY PIXELS.
A neutral character (ie pandaren) that has not chosen a faction has a green background.
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I think the issue is that there are few new players because Blizzard has not examined the reasons why a new player might decide to stop playing. I think devs are full of misconceptions about human nature, and why and how people play videogames.
Wow is full of quit moments. Just this afternoon I was bringing a character into Nazjatar for the first time who was one shot by something hitting the ground that was not telegraphed in any way. For some people that would be a quit moment.
For a new player, seeing something incredibly desirable, but being told that not only is it unobtainable, but it’s their own fault for being an entitled something-or-another, yeah. That would be a quit moment for some players, to realize that they can’t have that thing, and the playerbase is full of colossal jerks.
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Again, not sure how to address this because you and I are just thinking in different directions, its not a binary concept fair/not-fair with a clearly defined distinction… I’ll summarize it by saying any time a comparable reward is not available in game an item or reward should not be exclusive.
The needs of the many (i.e making a better game) outweighs the needs of the few (keeping rewards exclusive and/or limited time only when it negatively impacts the game). At a fundamental level, I am against limited time rewards because the games business model is based on time, and while the cost of one month of time is standardised the value of a month of time varies, there might be several exclusive rewards available in one month then none the next, blizzard doesn’t reduce the cost of that months subscription accordingly.
I have the mage tower appearences… both of them, and have it on many many alts (not all). I get that you want to paint me as a noob or scrub complaining about rewards I dont have but thats just not the case.
Yeah that includes me, I am ok with it. I have had an exclusive reward for what 1 or 2 years now? Thats fine… heck I was a general in original vanilla I didn’t complain when they made the PVP gear purchaseable in TBC (or whenever it was)… it didnt lessen the reward or accomplishment I felt by being a General and dominating vanilla.
My mentality is its not about denying other people rewards, that is toxic. The prestige is about WHEN you get the rewards, over time they should trickle down… how you are positioned in the overall wow-hierarchy is how I see it but then progression is what motivates me, I like going fast, advancing. I start at the back and race to the front, thats just how I choose to enjoy gaming.
And I think thats pretty reasonable but now they are putting the content back in (which I also think is reasonable), so the rewards should go back in or a comparable alternative, throw a new tint variant on them, problem solved. i think what they are doing with a tier set variant is also pretty cool.
What I disagree with is that the mage tower appearances should never ever be put back into the game as a reward. I think that is arbitrarily limiting, just add another tint to the same model.
No one technically needs any of the mage tower appearances. Plenty of other great models in the game to pursue.
If you’re against some time exclusive prizes, that’s fine. I can understand the sentiment. What I can’t understand is why you’re fine with some prizes being opened back up, and others not.
Not trying to do that at all. I’m just trying to point out that they are not a necessity.
A DH with MT appearances and a DH without, if their ilvls were comparable, are basically going to be fighting at the same level of effectiveness.
That’s great. Others, like me, are not. I worked hard for those appearances, and I don’t have a lot in this game I can really call my own. No one’s tripping over themselves to get me to join their raid groups, my M+ experiences are basically non-existent, and I’ve never breached 1750 in any rated setting. The MT was probably my one ticket to earn anything time-exclusive, and you want to take that tiny level of special I have away from me without offering anything in return.
I’m willing to bet gold that it’s not at all going to be the same experience. Same quests, dialogue, etc I’m sure, but very likely not the same stress and heartache beating their previous incarnations took for me. I’m currently leveling a priest and a DH so that, along with my mage, will be able to do the challenges and claim the spelltome mount. I’m pretty confident that they will be able to be beaten with minimal class knowledge this time around.
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I’m all for that 1000%. That’s why I’ve been saying to give us new challenges with new rewards. At least they got half of it right.
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I’m fine with revamped versions of the previous challenges. They were neat bits of lore and I’m never a fan of removing story. I’m glad people will be able to experience them on some level. I just don’t necessarily think that the mage tower skins need to be re-rewarded after they were promised to be disappearing either.
Without wording it exactly like this, this is effectively what it is. If other people having access to the item makes you personally enjoy the item less, is this statement wrong?
This isn’t the big deal that others make it out to be, but it is a negative experience that is otherwise avoidable.
If you change “should be able to have every item” to “should have a chance to earn every item”, this is a true statement.
People that are pro-FOMO tend to throw around the word “deserve” way more than those that oppose it, and the difficulty (or lack thereof) if only brought up in light of being told they didn’t “deserve” it.
Catastrophically is a bit much, but the game is made actively worse by their inclusion.
You would survive if they brought the items back. Also, if you earn an item and other people have access to it, you can’t keep it to yourself? What does this even mean?
“Studies show that FOMO leads to extreme dissatisfaction and has a detrimental effect on our physical and mental health – mood swings, loneliness, feelings of inferiority, reduced self-esteem, extreme social anxiety, and increased levels of negativity and depression.”
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Out of sight out of mind I guess, its about impact and visibility in the game… for example I am fine with all the seasonal rewards that you have to wait for once a year because its predictable and it cumulatively adds to the game. I think when you remove access to rewards or content it shrinks the game.
Let me put if this way, a few weeks back I stopped playing wow and downloaded guild wars 2… a game I haven’t played in 10 years, I thought great thats 10 years worth of story content and rewards I can go play through and earn (I cant even remember why I stopped playing, but I remember getting max level back in the day)… once I figured out that a massive chunk of the story content was through limited time only events and gone forever and that many many rewards were no longer available to players (combined with the extremly spare story content during level up)… I stopped playing.
Taking that mindset from GW2 and applying it to wow, generally in wow I am on the other end of the spectrum, I have gotten most of the rewards and done most of the content but I think about the new player experience a lot, about getting more friends to play wow… the barrier to entry is just so high that I cant recommend it to anyone, and every unobtainable reward or bit of content that can no longer be done just further divides the play experience.
I think gaming should be about enjoyment, its emotionally driven. The game puts too much emphasis on ilvl as a reward (player power) rather than “fun” as a reward. Again once you fall too far back in the ilvl curve is blocks off newer content for you (but thats a different issue).
A demon hunter having flaming warglaives its a pretty powerful image and really nice player fantasy (they do look nice). Nothing in game compares to them (except azzinoth). Similarly the werebear form is very distinct for druids, the warrior flail was pretty iconic at the time, there might be more flails in game now. Most of the mage tower appearences are kinda meh whatever… some just don’t have a comparable in game reward is what urks me.
To me the fact I did the content is more the reward, I compare it to doing a 5 mask vision (something I consider far harder for the ilvl I achieved it at), I think thats a valid position which is why I think a new tint might be the answer. I would love to see a blackflame version of the demon havoc warglaives mage tower apperances.
For me I am looking that that initial 2 week window and thinking… really? Is that enough time to get character power to a level it needs to be reknown, soul binds, conduit levels… its not like legion where you hit max level get full artefact a legendary and do a round of dailies to buy your second legendary.
Honestly if they released a legion server on patch 7.3.2 (with progressive raid unlock “classic legion”) along side 9.1.5 I would go legion… I think that has been the best point in wow to date.
Actually no. The number of people who have anything whatever in real life that is exclusive approaches zero. And yet somehow we survive and think it’s perfectly normal to buy some nice thing and still okay for millions of other people to have access to that nice thing in real life. In real life only the filthiest of the filthy rich own exclusive items and think this makes them better human beings than the unwashed masses.
The only unique items the overwhelming majority of people ever own are things they made themselves with their own hands.
There is no real life comparison between a videogame where desirable items are artificially kept exclusive and a billionaire who owns a gold plated car.
Yay. Lets waste more resources on content that’ll get deleted from the game.
Absolutely brilliant use of money and developer time.
This is one of the main reasons I don’t play a lot of other modern MMOs.
I pay for a game, I expect to have the ability to access it all. Not be told that because I didn’t pay them soon enough, I will never have the opportunity to get something.
I’ve seen dozens of friends quit this game after getting frustrated finding out they can’t get some of the stuff they see me using. What am I supposed to do, not mog my elite sets around them? Meanwhile, a few of them are now playing XIV because they saw the car mount and the fact it’s coming back.
What’s so laughable about the OP is very nearly no one else cares if someone is riding around on an “exclusive” mount wearing an “exclusive” armor set and carrying an “exclusive” weapon. The only ones who do care are the folks who think having some “exclusive” video game item makes them special in some way. Everyone else is just playing their game, paying no attention to the folks who imagine everyone is impressed by their preening.
Edit: This doesn’t mean some players don’t want the cool stuff they see, they just aren’t impressed by the player who has the items. Being interested in the items is not the same as being impressed by the player who got them.
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My boyfriend who has played many games (and no longer plays wow) has strong feelings about how exclusive rewards have hurt player retention. I myself am more concerned about removal of content that makes the game appear pointless or broken to a new player.
I started at the end of MoP. I’ve been called out in the past for not knowing something that was in a book that was background for BC. As if somehow I should have known. Or that I should have run some scenario that I could have gotten from some npc I had no idea existed. What’s wrong with me for not knowing those things? How dare I?
Anyway, my point was that there is no legitimate real life comparison between exclusive rewards in wow and real life ownership.
Only to shallow people who are unable to derive real value from own RL accomplishments.
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I’m fine with exclusive collectibles as long as we’re given ample warning beforehand, which we were in this case. I will agree that content shouldn’t be removed though. I was sad that the questlines for the MoP cloak and WoD ring were removed, as I was with the experiences of the MT quests. Which is why I’m happy they are bringing those back.
I did the same thing with EverQuest recently. 20+ expansions of content I haven’t seen before. A few time-exclusives were the last thing on my mind. I wouldn’t even have even able to tell you what those were, there was just so damn much to explore.
I agree, but a couple unobtainable vanity items shouldn’t make or break a gaming experience.
What are the multitude of other warglaives out there then, chopped liver?
I can agree on the flails. I think the Mawsworn dudes wield some nice looking flails? Put those in the game.
Nobody cares about that. People notice physical representations of accomplishments.
I don’t know. We will see soon enough. If I fail to get it on the first time, there’s always next time, which is cool.
For the record, I loved Legion too. My favorite expansion all around. Even a friendless, guildless loser like me had a place in it. Not so with SL. That’s why my current “main” is a hunter locked in Chromie Time. SL depresses the hell out of me.
I have no RL accomplishments. I’m a fat, old, skill-less loser who’s failed at everything he has tried. Every day I only wake up fatter, older, and more depressed. The frost mage MT skin is probably the closest thing to a trophy I’ve ever earned in my life.
Happy?
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Normal people can enjoy things even when others have them.
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Vindicated.
The game disproportionately attracts people who feed on exclusivity and consider it a badge of their superiority over lesser mortals.
In the same way increasing emphasis on player-controlled content like mythic+ and and competitivity as the only legitimate reason to play has resulted in an influx of players who are hypercompetitive in nature above all else and drawn by the idea of being able to control access of other players to content.