So, I was looking over the Enhancement Shaman builds that are on Icy Veins. Currently for PVE DPS builds there are 6 viable choices to choose from:
Elementalist ST
Elementalist AoE
Elementalist AoE (Frost)
Storm ST
Storm T30 AoE
Storm T31 AoE
which talent build is the majority actually using?
Where Elemental Shamans get 5 choices of talent builds:
Fire-focused single-target talents
Lightning-focus single-target
fire-focused AoE/Mythic +Talents (recommended with T31)
Lightning-focused AoE/Mythic
Same question which talent build are the majority actually using?
Each one has its strengths and weaknesses depending on what you are doing, I guess. Yet which one do we go with as our primary build?
Then for PVP you only have one choice regardless of whether you are an Elemental or Enhancement Shaman which does not even have a name. Lucky for those who do PVP.
While I get if you are doing Mythic+ or Mythic Raiding you would want to go with the best build possible. Yet, Blizzard specifically said they hated cookie-cutter builds. Yet, we get forced to always take a talent that we really do not want Ie PW. So, why do we get the illusion of choice i.e. the 5-6 builds currently on IV; when we get forced into really one build?
It doesn’t make sense to me why limit our choices and force us into one specific build just to be somewhat competitive with the other classes, which we fail in doing anyways (to a certain point, I get it there are a lot of variables that can change this). My point is Blizzard if you want people to play a certain way. Then just make it that way and stop with the illusion of choice when we don’t really get that choice.
I personally would rather have Blizzard just open everything up and allow us to play with whatever talents we would like, and still allow Shamans to be on par competitively with the other classes whether it’s in PVE or PVP. Am I wrong in wanting that ability of choice instead of having to have a certain build to play in end-game content?
The other question I was going to bring up was could someone use a PVP talent build for any content whether it’s Leveling, Dungeons, Raids, or higher-end game content?
I'm not sure based on your post whether you're confused or ranting, but in case you are asking, I can answer some of your misconceptions about Enhancement.
In T30 Enhancement did not have a "primary" build, it generally played Storm ST in one target scenarios in raid and Elementalist AoE in M+, but the Storm AoE build was also viable and perfectly acceptable to play.
For T31 I'm not quite sure I understand you, are you saying that Enhancement and Elementalist builds do not want to take Primordial Wave? If so, that is quite wrong, again for Enhancement Primordial Wave is one of the defining parts of the Elementalist build, and while it isn't traditionally used in Storm builds it can easily be flexed in the Storm ST tree to make good use of the new tier bonus.
I'm a little confused about your build diversity rant, as you are not forced into one build and your choices are not limited to be competitive with other classes, which we do not fail to do. Enhancement has been in a very good spot this expansion, and arguably has one of the best spec trees in the game for build diversity.
It seems to me that you are upset some specific talent build is not viable, do you have an example talent build you would like to play but feel is handicapped by the talent system?
The end result for T31 is a very strong tierset for Enhancement that will result in the Enhancement Elementalist build being played in M+/AoE and the option of playing Storm or Elementalist ST builds and Enhancement being "meta". Overall, a win.
A little of each. I do want to learn why we use the talents that we do instead of other talents. Yes, I do come across a lot as if I am ranting that I do apologize for. Didnt mean to. Yes, I was asking more for clarification.
I get that and I am not saying that anything is wrong with that.
According to if you read the forums the PW seems to be something that you either hate it or you love it. I get that it is a defining part of the Elementalist build. However, We are Enhancement Shamans not Elemental Shamans. I am more of hit something until it bleeds dies or gets cooked by my crash lightning. Sorry just a little humor their. I just was getting at Blizzard gives us the illusion of choice yet we have very little choice in our builds.
Oh, I guess I have been reading the wrong DPS charts for the Mythics and raiding. It’s okay I could have been reading things wrong. No harm in that.
No I am not upset by any specific talent build, having played all of them I currently like the Elementalist AoE build. My point again is if I wanted to go into mythic + or even raid I have to be of a certain build, to be competitive and keep up with the DPS of everyone else. Let’s say I don’t want to be an Elementalist ST or an AoE build. And I would rather have an Ascendance build instead for it fits more with my play style. (Not saying that this is my play style just throwing it out there.) I can’t play that Ascendance style because if I do there will be someone (who usually isn’t playing a shaman) who gets on your case or even kicks you out of the raid because of that. So again we have the illusion of choice yet in reality we are actually forced into playing an Elementalist St or AoE build if we want to be in one of those end-game events.
Also, again I honestly have nothing at all wrong with how Enhancement Shamans are currently. I just think Blizzard is having us go into the elemental spec when we should be enhancing our attacks, allies, etc. Yet that is a whole different topic.
Oh, I agree I will not dispute that at all. I guess my main point probably is the fact that I think Blizzard is having Enhancement shamans be more like Elemental Shamans than what we should be. And I wanted to get some people’s perspectives on it. Maybe I worded things wrong.
Anyway, I do not disagree with you at all. I am not mad, angry, or confused at all. I wanted to get some people’s views on our builds. I also just wanted maybe someone to also give the pros of why we are meta is build the way it is. That is all.
A lot of the builds Wordup has posted on IV/WH are to cater to the fact that we are on cusp of a new season starting. Once T31 is acquired and S3 is underway, the only builds that will really matter are Elementalist ST/AOE/AOE (frost), and Storm ST.
Elementalist ST will, on average, outperform Storm ST although Storm will still have a higher ceiling if you want to be a (n RNG) parselord. Elementalist AoE is the default m+ or multitarget/cleave build, while AOE frost is for those who do not like the tab-targeting lashing flames playstyle. It eliminates having to do that at the cost of some damage but its still fine to play with.
That being said, your “primary” build will likely bounce between Elementalist AOE/ST depending on what you’re doing. There are also some talent changes that will go into effect once the new 4p is acquired, such as dropping sundering for swirling maelstrom, but it looks like Wordup has already posted those versions of the tree. There are still some situations too where one or two talent points may change in an m+ setting (notably around wft and group comp although I am anti wft in keys myself).
I think most class/specs want this but we at least have some build diversity while other specs truly do not. It’s quite difficult to achieve tuning where every build is equally as strong as the other.
Shamans are shamans, I’ll never understand the elemental “fire v lightning” argument or the statement above.
edit: Also, there’s nothing wrong with pwave. People moan about wanting storm to be the top build because they want to do nothing but spam one button.
But you do have that choice — it just depends on the content you are doing.
Elementalist and Storm have been equally viable in PvP the entire xpac, even though they have flip-flopped in PvE.
But even then, you can still run both in PvE. You might not be pushing out the maximum damage you possibly can, but most people aren’t doing that anyway for one reason or another despite being a min/max build (latency, finger speed, etc.) — and as long as you play it well, you will be performing better than a lot of your peers.
I see what you mean by feeling like an Elemental shaman, maelstrom weapon spenders are all generic so it would be cool to receive an enhancement specific spender that meshes more with a melee aesthetic.
As for why we are good meta contenders:
our AoE dmg profile with PW is very bursty with the empowered AoE lightning bolt and the haste bonus, we’re a class with strong burst and consistent dps, which is very useful in M+.
We are also one of the last funnel classes, where in AoE we can use the additional targets to pump higher ST dmg into one big or priority add through Lava Lash (hot hands/ashen catalyst) this is generally done for either dangerous mobs or mobs with a lot of health so the whole pack dies close together (better for pacing).
Additionally we have a lot of utility via stuns/knockup/cleanses and lust, which all contribute to making a key easier or allowing for less utility focused classes to be brought.
I am new so I know my point of view on this isn’t up to par. But when choosing a shaman to play I was a bit overwhelmed with all the builds available, leveled to 30 as elemental but felt too slow so I tried enhancement out.
Love the fast paced of enhance but again some of the builds were a little much, I just took a wowhead build and tweaked it to my liking and just play how I want, I’m sure it’s no where near what I should be but I enjoy it, not going for world firsts or anything.