Im struggling to understand how the devs can be ok with how bad enhance is. Since the nerf to thorims ascendance literally does nothing, the elemental build does neg dam. on top of that i see no hope in terms of comp diversity for the spec, why would you play with an enhance when you could q with anything else. your stuck hoping a warrior and healer is willing to take pitty on you play hard mode. now every shaman has windfury and lust why on gods green earth would you play with a melee ele shaman with less cc, cooldowns and healing?
6 Likes
This is so real
7 of the last 10 seasons every warrior I’ve played with would have been 300-400 cr higher playing with a ret not even 5% as good as me or a good dk/feral/lock/ele/mage
Stormstrike / storm bringer is VERY fun and we got even more utility/defensive tools
we just do negative damage and struggle to stick to 90% of the specs in the game that aren’t basically stationary (spriest.)
10 Likes
Let’s protest in the street on your behalf
2 Likes
for all acoustics that cope for enhance
swapxy made a pretty good thread on twitter about enhance
https://x.com/Swapxy/status/1823424102285369687
"Here are some ideas using existing talents to improve mobility:
- Spirit Walk from 60sec to 30sec CD
- Feral Lunge from 30sec to 15sec CD
- Thunderous Paws should proc from Feral Lunge even when its on CD
- Winds of Al’Akir increase all move speed by 15% not just in Ghost Wolf"
I actually think most of these changes are really good, but there’s a fine line, of course. In the modern game, there’s so much mobility and anti-mobility that it can feel extremely difficult to even deal damage when playing SS/WF (which also seems to be consistently undertuned recently).
It’s hard. Playing Storm in the last few seasons, it literally felt like you couldn’t do any damage to Arcane (ever), Warlocks (meaningfully), MM Hunters (situationally), or even DKs and DHs regularly.
That’s solely due to mobility, not even considering the armor limitations (such as Moonkin/Ret being virtually immune to Storm Enhancement damage or Windwalker spending roughly 25% of the game immune to Stormstrike).
With all that said, I could see these changes causing MM (with a mobile wizard) /Arcane to potentially struggle significantly in what is currently a very one-sided matchup in their favor, so it’s hard to see that as a negative. However, it could also make enhancement feel potentially impossible for some Warlock comps, which would be bad.
5 Likes
I’m very new to enh shaman and trying to learn it for pvp and it’s definitely missing something(s).
Damage I’m honestly not too worried about, because that’s more of a tuning thing and all the tuning is off atm.
I’m not sure I agree that elemental build is “bad”, because I’m sending out 600k+ frost shocks and 1mil+ elemental blasts on 600k healthpools. I his a 1.5mil prim wave lb crit the other day too. It’s nothing crazy like fury war or frost mage or aff lock, but it feels super fine IMO.
I tried the storm build once and honestly it just felt really… watered down? It felt exciting when I got 2-3 back-to-back procs smashing something, but their health really didn’t move even when I slammed 4 stormstrikes in a row.
Also, chasing a hunter or evoker as enh shaman felt like a death sentence with storm, but I didn’t feel like I had any real trouble with the elemental build because I only really needed to connect for 2 globals every 6-8s or so to land my hothand and ice strikes.
The biggest hangup for me is the global efficiency. I think I’m doing solid damage as elemental build, but I feel like I have no globals to fit in any utility and if I take a few seconds to fake a kick and cast a hex I swear everyone gets topped in that time XD
I know I’m definitely uncomfortable and inefficient with the spec, but it’s hard for me to recognize when I have lethal damage. I feel like I have damage ALL the time, but it doesn’t feel like I’m ever killing anything, if that makes sense.
you don’t kill anything cause you don’t have any meaningfull damage. this is just 1 aspect as to why enhance is tilting right now.
and you’re right in saying its the least concerning issue as it can be tuned out.
The real concern is uptime and comp diversity because we lack a MS. imo on top of swapxy’s suggestions id love to see an ms on storm strike. its literally 20 to 50% extra dam. Feral dh arms rogue monk fury dk surv all have a healing reduction making them able to play with almost every other class creating lots of other options in terms of people to q with. 20% healing reduction is like 20% extra dam in an arena and therefor invaluable to the game. I JUST WANT TO PLAY THE GAME
At the very least DH and fury shouldn’t have an MS effect.
While we’re at it, BM too.
Garage door opener specs need less.
5 Likes
Some thoughts. I don’t know how much mobility is an issue, especially for the elementalist build. I’m worried that if mobility is buffed too much then enh just starts to auto win vs caster teams. I wouldnt hate if there was something like, “pressing stormstrike clears snares” as a pvp talent, though. Something to allow the storm builds more uptime, but also has a conditional requirement of being able to hit something in the first place so it’s not just a blue fury warrior.
That being said, after playing enh Idk how DHs ever complain about roots or ret paladins saying “fReEdOm pUrGeAbLe”.
I also don’t like the idea of enh having an MS for the same reason I dont like ret having an MS. Both those classes have SO much utility that if they also had MS, they’d just be in every game, it feels like.
I wouldn’t hate if enh had something that contributes more meaningfully to securing kills as opposed to just playing mana games or random 1shots like it has had in the past.
I think the biggest weakness with enhance sham atm isn’t even the mobility or lack of ms, but the global efficiency piece.
The elementalist build is a gcd capped 9-or-so button rotation and that’s not even starting to look at pressing a single heal or utility button.
Classes like warrior, dh, even ww have gaps in their rotation naturally to use their utility and defensives/healing. Shaman does not, and im not sure how to best address that.
2 Likes
Because we have a duploblox understanding of the game for the most part.
Comes with the territory of being an over buffed and simplistic melee for the last 2-4 years.
2 Likes
No thank you. If they were pure melee and had to be in melee range to do dmg or interrupt or cc, wound’t have any issues with this ask.
These are the questions I ask myself every time I play my enh and for some stupid reason I keep playing it. If only blizzard would throw us a bone and give us PvP only damage buffs. They seem to think because enh is good in mythics that it’ll somehow translate over to PvP; and haven’t considered the variables that make the two different.
So you just started playing enh and you think you can comment on it?
The damage is NOT fine. Please stop making post like these.
1 Like
I’ve played against it a TON and I’ve just started playing it and prefaced my comments that I’m new to the spec!
Damage is messed up for everyone right now, though. There hasn’t been really any tuning for anything yet, and there are things planned for the next two weeks for pve and that’s not even starting to look at pvp tuning. I don’t want to bother speculating too much on damage because everything is going to get flipped on its head.
This is insanely ironic coming from you XD
I hear what you’re saying and I’ve felt that way about enh before, but if you try to play it yourself or even just watch a streamer (saul is a popular enh streamer) you can see that the damage TANKS drastically without uptime which also starts gimping its survivability.
This is also in a world where ret paladin is functionally ranged and somehow still has freedom too, dk has chains + 2x grip + DA, warrior has 2x charge and a leap, dh and ww have infinite mobility, and rogues have 2x shadowstep+sprint+kidney+2x vanish.
Enh isn’t immobile like an SP or anything, but it’s got fewer tools with longer gaps in between them to connect than just about every other melee.
1 Like
I actually wanted to circle back to this as a whole. How many times have you made a “Nerf X class” post or thread, despite not having played the class at all?
What is wrong with someone exploring a new spec and sharing their thoughts having seen both sides?
Why are you being a hypocrite and why do you think it’s okay when you do it & complain, but not okay when someone else does it but actually TRIES to play the other spec?
5 Likes
Justice for Remi & his brothers.
Make stormstrike do physical/nature damage like scourge strike.
3 Likes
agree w/ this
I agree w/ this too, but I’d be lying if I said that the number of Hot Hand procs missed when relying on ranged attacks not getting flametongue hits over a long game DOES feel significant.
At least compared to games where you do have exceptional uptime and Hot Hand is happening reliably, the damage feels consistently unimpactful overall.
Connecting this to the less reliance lash has on uptime; elementalist has had this problem every season except the last, because of how absurdly powerful Primwave was then.
In my opinion, Primwave and Hot Hand are the only two windows where my damage feels meaningful, even though the individual numbers all look big on the surface.
A solution that might seem boring but I have always thought was interesting is that Hot Hand should have a way to be manually activated instead of relying on complete RNG tied to melee range, which punishes you for having low uptime despite 70% of your abilities being ranged.
The very best version of Enhancement was Shadowlands Doom Winds, where you could play around and control the bulk of your lethal damage, rather than waiting for an RNG Ascendance or Hot Hand proc.
I hate how bloated the Storm PvP talents are. “Ride the Lightning” feels so essential for Storm in many situations that Lash doesn’t need to worry about it, giving them the freedom to choose 3 out of 4 options—Lust, Burrow, Stormweaver, or Static Field—while Storm only gets to pick 2.
In the past, we had “Static Cling,” where Stormstriking the same target twice increased your movement speed by 15% unless they moved a certain distance away or you Stormstruck someone else. I could see another version of that with some sort of Stormstrike cooldown reduction interaction with Feral Lunge, maybe.
1 Like
ride of the lightning is currently terrible because it will consume ARC DISARCHE PROC after a tempest hitted AEO.
it’s bad because those 2 chain lightning charges are 40% damage increased and its better to fire them off when maelstrom is like 8-10 , but with Ride of the Lightning you have to do stormstrike to rebuild your maelstorm but you loose your stacks of ARC DISCARCHE
they try to split enhances damage into too many abilities. I played it some on beta it actually feels somewhat tanky atm. I think they should keep it simple and just buff up Stormstrike and Windfury by 50% in pvp and see what that does.
1 Like
i agree we dont need a lot or the moon , buffing or fixing SS to deal nature damage , and buffing windfury damage is a great start to put us on the road.