After playing Wrath Classic and rolling a shaman I decided to finish leveling mine in DF and play some Enhance.
The feel on Enhancement now feels for like another caster vs a melee. I know that Enhance does have a caster theme behind it but right now the feel of it misses the mark.
WF and SS feel great in Wrath but now I feel as if SS is just filler while i cast LB, CL, Hailstorm and my shock spells.
The overall feel of hitting SS and proccing WF had a specific feel to it thats lost in this caster melee class now.
Itās funny, Iāve mained Enhancement since WOTLK, and had fond memories
But going back to play it on classic, it feels slow and clunky compared to retail Enhancement.
In fact, the Elementalist Enhancement build is tied with my favorite iteration of Enh, the other being MoP
2 Likes
Wrath Enh Shaman just feels like a worse Wrath Frost DK, so thereās that.
I have to second that the current iteration is the best Enh has felt ever since the Legion rework happened.
1 Like
Also what you want is the Storm build, which is all about Stormstrike, Windfury, and Ascendance procs.
Some caster stuff, but physical takes the front stage.
Shaman is the one class I do not enjoy in Dragonflight. At least this patch. I donāt like the design direction theyāve taken any of the 3 specs, especially Ele.
Sadly the Storm build took a back seat due to the fact of how the S3 tier bonus is which greatly favoured the Elementalist Build and now in S4 itās going to be the same.
There are different variations of people trying to attempt a sort of Storm build but itās a huge difference in terms of damage output solely due to the tier set.
Itās basically the same issue as Ele, the tier set insanely favours the Fire (meatball) build that running the Storm/lightning build especially with Storm Ele the difference is so large itās more a hinderance to your group.
I think thatās the biggest flaw currently with Tier sets, it sort of locks you into a certain play style over promoting build flexibility and diversity. Donāt get me wrong if you prefer the Enhance Elemental or Ele Meatball build itās great but if not itās either do or die.
Storm is doing bad because the talent that compose Storm is faulty. People like to say the season 3 tier set is what makes Elementalist better but really its because they fixed alot of talent issues with Elementalist and shifted talent trees to make it significantly stronger. If you stuck the Season 2 tier set bonus with this current talent set, Storm would still be miles behind Elementalist because every aspect of the Season 2 set synergizes better with Elementalist and because the talent set that composes Elementalist work and synergize way better.
Season 2 the only reason Storm pulled ahead of Elementalist in single target (Storm was hot garbage the moment adds were present) was because they buffed a number of talents related to Storm while simultaneously did nothing to fix the maelstrom starvation issue that Elementalist that the season 1 tier set effectively bandaid fixed; losing that tier set gimped single target Elementalist in season 2 while buffs to thoriumās invocation saved Storm from that issue. Now with the change to Elemental Assault that issue has been fixed.
They really need to fix up the talents for Storm instead of trying to bandaid fix it with a tier set. P Wave actually fits super well into to Stormās buildās but realistically they just need to fix a large amount of issues with Storm such as making Doom Winds either have CDR or a shorter cooldown and not making it so RNG with DRE and/or making Ascendance a viable CD.
1 Like
Iāll quote a few ideas I think would help build diversity and QoL, Iād like to know your opinion.
It was in reply in another thread, itās about adjusting our Talents and reducing RNG to be slightly favourable. The Storm build can be great just it needs a few adjustments which i quoted and i think the Feral Spirits and Elemental Spirit change would greatly benefit both builds by making RNG more favourable with your play style.
Good points but realistically I doubt Blizzard would give us so many free points. If we had so much flexibility in our talent tree we would be so powerful compared to any class. Doom winds should be longer or the CD should be 1 minute. Feral Lunge should be baseline as I shudder to think of what I would need to give up to take it to do Fated Mythic Raz.
The only thing I would disagree with is changing Elemental Spirits in the manner you depicted as it is needless. What should happen instead is that Alpha Wolf should include Stormstrike to be a trigger for the Wolf Cleave in addition to Chain Lightning and Crash and points freed from a random 2-point choice would allow for this. They could add a stacking damage increase on the Alpha Wolf cleave that fades after 8 seconds similar to Festermight for some interesting gameplay.
I would think that uncoupling Storm mindless spamming of Stormstrike would be the biggest boon to Storm. I think giving it 2 charges would be one method to do it as it would potentially disincentivize mindlessly capping on Maelstrom until Stormstike happens to not reset. You would use one charge and then want to dump Maelstrom to trigger Frost Witch to regain that charge. If you donāt happen to have it, the second charge would then be your safety net alongside the Wolves generation. That combined with Alpha Wolf changes also triggering off of Stormstrike would give Storm a bit of fresher design in my mind as there is more gameplay expression. This however would raise the skill floor considerably which does go against Stormās main attractive feature: its low-skill floor.
1 Like
Iām fine with Storm being relied on prioing Stomstrike, it just needs to have some gameplay loop that isnāt reliant on mashing Storm Strike while capped on Maelstrom. With the changes I lined out, you could change DRE into granting stacks of a buff that when you reach 100 of trigger DRE with an off GCD button press. Assuming you have the 2 charge system I laid out, you would incentivised to manage Maelstrom properly to generate stacks at a sufficient rate.
That said, I would prefer the Elementalist gameplay loop with said Storm changes since I would argue that has an incomparable gameplay style and honestly makes more sense that a master of the elements with 2 weapons would have abilities like that. Outside of rose-tinted glasses and room temp IQ takes of āthis is how it was in vanillaā, IDK why people think to enhance should purely revolve around RNG and lightning.
I agree itās the āMaster of the Elementsā, but clearly certain Elements are favoured by each Spec baseline and builds help diverse it aswell, which could be a flaw or blessing depending how you look at it and I think our unique cd of Ascendance shows this.
Enhance we become a Storm, Ele Fire and Resto Water.
I think the RNG component in any build can be fine if handled and tuned appropriately, look at Ele currently DRE procs and insanely often due to the fact they have multiple interactions with Lava Burst and can still feel just as fun even though they essentially are focused on one Element and pressing Lava Burst as much as possible and has had good feedback as they voted to continue it in S4.
-
They get 2 charges of Lava Burst, (which is why I think Stormstrike should aswell).
-
They have Lava Surge, Which essentially is our LotFW but more effective as they donāt over cap due to a 2nd charge.
-
Now primordial wave causes Lava Burst to essentially send out 4 Increasing the proc chance.
While Eles gameplay loop with DRE is based on Flame Shock and Lava Surge for Lava Burst.
Enhances Storm/Build is focused Stormstrike and spending 10 Maelstrom and LotFW resets for more Stormstrikes but itās not as fluid or fleshed out.
Enhance Storm build is there, itās close to being great and just needs a little adjustment to help the overall fluidity of the build. Hailstorm moving into Ice Strike would be great and 2nd charge of Stormstrike be a godsend.
I donāt think each spec should have a set in stone way to perform, clearly they have had a vision that each spec should be played different ways and throughout DF it has, but itās clear that certain play styles are more fleshed out then others.
Edit: Theyāve essentially re created the Enhance Storm DRE Build for Ele with great success we just need the same love.
The thing is that I would argue that Elementalist is probably what Blizzard is looking for Enhancement shaman. Iād also say that for game design wise, gameplay should be king and then thematics should be considered 2nd. 9.0 Covenants are a prime example of why you should never design based on primarily theme and philosophy.
Outside of āloreā, āthematicsā, and āVanilla did it even though those specs were absolute dogwaterā, I have never heard a compelling gameplay reason to have Enhance be solely a lightning wizard outside of people stating in a roundabout manner that Elementalist has a significantly higher skill floor. The moment you strip those non-gameplay aspects, Storm looks extremely odd. Especially when the design solutions seem to push this idea that it should be only focused on nature damage. As I said, Storm changes to aim should aim to utilize more of the kit and not have it focus on utilizing only storm strike. I.E. become more like the Elementalist Build.
Itās definitely not just a lightning Wizard, far from it, Currently Elementalist build favours Fire/Lava Lash, you literally pick up every lava lash talent, and essentially you Lava Lash just as much as Stormstrike in the Storm build, especially with Hot Hand and Ashen catalyst. Seriously the cd on it Iād argue is better than the current Storm Strike.
Elementalist favours Lava Lash/Flame Shock so Fire and Nature while Frost and physical takes a backseat , While Storm Build favours Physical and Nature and arguably Frost due to LotFW and Fire takes the back seat.
Elementalist have no need for really the left side of the talent tree and even avoid sundering now and prefer Elemental Assault, while Storm Build avoids the right side, in replacement picks up doomwinds, sundering and LotFW.
They both essentially achieve the same things just through different means, both ice strike, both use crash lightning/chain lightning, both feral spirits, both even fire shock, one lava lashās more which helps AoE and be able to lava lash even better and more often, the other Doomwinds and sunders and Storm Strikes more often.
The issue is the right side is insanely more fleshed out and cohesive over the left side currently, thatās why through the suggestions I put forward trying to make the left side a more viable option just as great as the right side.
Regardless, with how DF talent trees are set up and due to limited talent points itās clear their is different ways/builds specs play just due to tier sets and tuning certain builds definitely become the more optimal or āmeta choiceā due to performance and numbers.
Gameplay both builds worked, I think the Storm build is insanely close to being perfect just most definitely a 2nd charge of Storm Strike and Dre tuning is needed and like how I mentioned I think itās insanely odd Ice Strike leads to swirling maelstrom when itās useless without hailstorm which I definitely think is an oversight.
And both builds really should have Windfury Totem/Aura (itās ridiculous itās a āTalentā) and Feral Lunge baseline. I think outside of our disagreement/discussion this should happen.
100% agree with you on that statement.
The Lightning Wizard comment is related to Storm build specifically and nothing to do with the Elementalist Build.
Elementalist is much more than simply Fire damage when considering the gameplay even if Lava Lash and Flameshock compose a larger portion of the damage profile since Ice Strike/Hailstorm and Stormstrike have more meaning in the rotation compared Lava Lash and Ice Strike do for Storm. Hot hands still requires you to weave and think about how youāre hitting your buttons, especially once you high mastery values + mastery amps where Stormstrike become more frequent during burst windows for Elementalist. This is even more important when talking about how Elementalist plays in M+ and adds timing since there is some thought and skill expression which leads to stronger and more meaningful damage events. Elementalist even with taking all of the Lava Lash talents still utilizes the whole kit given to Enhance where as Storm literally has the other aspects of the build as simply filler. You highlight not taking sundering for Elementalist yet for Storm it simply servers as a filler for Doomwinds outside of the Season 2 Tier set. Even during season 2, it was more optimal after the opener to send Sundering on CD instead of aligning it doomwinds in most cases.
Thereās a reason we call the Elementalist build āElementalist Buildā and not āFire Buildā. Whereas the Storm Build is call such because it is solely focused on Stormstrike because fundamentally itās a lightning wizard.
This is demonstratively not true. Comparing fights between Storm build from last tier vs current tier fights, there is more button diversity between the two builds. Not to mention the damage contribution between Lava Lash vs Stormstrike are demonstratively different in button presses and the overall effect of the damage profile. Letās look at a single target example from my own rat gameplay (this obviously flawed to a degree). Looking at my only Mythic Rashok kill within a 6:04 epoch (# of casts/% of damage):
Stromstrike - 121/13.03%
Lava Lash - 22/3.14%
Ice Strike - 17/2.04%
Frost Shock - 7/0.79%
Elemental Blast - 28/13.52%
Vs Mythic Smolderon that I did last night within the same timeframe:
StormStrike - 46/2.51%
Lava Lash - 76/14.21%
Ice Strike - 29/3.64%
Frost Shock - 47/8.49%
Elemental Blast - 28/14.45%
So even though Elementalist talentwise is composed of Lava Lash talents and produced a similar damage proportion to Stormstrike between builds, the build itself is more inclusive of the kit, button press diversity, and a wider damage composition related to button presses. This is excluding button presses of Windstrike as well during DRE procs, which would push Stormstrike button presses up to 170 (49 windstrikes in that log) and pushing the damage % up to roughly 20%. Now consider current changes where you would remove all of the EB casts for Storm and higher maelstorm generation from Elemental Assault leading to more Stormstrike resets and cast differences would be considerably even more stark.
I agree 100% with this assessment.
I disagree with this assessment. Iām a die-hard Enh enjoyer and itās my top 2 spec in every version of this game, my personal least favorite iteration being Legion whereā¦ Well, the bread and butter of what you define as āthe storm buildā truly gained its identity.
I can say that the problem between them has little or nothing to do with their tier sets. Iām a Classic Andy who recently decided to give DF another go, and since Legion I had been more partial to my Warrior over Shaman tbh so I decided to level one up again from Fresh to really get a feel for the talent tree step by step.
Elementalist side of the tree just outright feels better and for anyone already familiar with playing Enhance, itās not really much of a skill floor difference between the two playstyles, and on a spec with already a bunch of buttons to press thereās less cooldowns I have to press/macro together withinin a burst window to do just the same or even less damage than the Elementalist build. The two extra buttons of doomwinds and sunder actually does make a difference for someone with Classicbrain like me.
Even assuming there are no tier sets in the game, Iād choose Elementalist 10/10 times. Iām not being deprived of pressing Stormstrike by any means, I still press it a lot.
Back in the classic / wrath days I feel like enhancement only had like 8 active dps abilities ā¦
frost shock.
Flame shock
Earth shock
Lightning bolt / chain lightning
Lava lash
Stormstrike
And the rest of it away all your totems and weapon enchantments.
I have to say I liked that feel because i had more time to really plan my totems ā¦ which ones I wanted to pick for which fights etc.
And there were like 30 so that felt super cool having all that choice ā¦
Yes at times it felt overwhelming but youād mostly just pick a set of totems for a situation and then forget it.
I actually do miss having some more time between active abilities to hear my maces kathunk and my firebrand roar and hope my wind strike procced.
Firstly, love to see another passionate Shaman player, itās always great and I truely love seeing opinions, ideas, feedback from others peoples perspectives aswell.
I do think Tier Sets influence a lot though due to the interaction it has with our builds/play styles, for example how S3 and now S4 Tier set essentially forces you to use Primordial Wave and basically its subsequent talents which plays directly into the Elementalist build as they benefit from it greatly due to Molten Assault.
The Storm Build which doesnāt generally run either Talents, I say generally as there has been different variations, but simply cannot compete in terms of output.
I do believe the Elemental Build is far more cohesive though, I agree, itās insanely smoother and feels for fleshed out, thatās why I put forward ideas to make the other style of play or build feel better.
Currently even myself is playing the Elementalist Build, it may not be my preference, nor enjoyable to me but clearly performance is important in this age of WoW especially when it comes to most PvE content particularly for me pushing keys.
I strongly believe the Storm build suffers really from 2 issues in S3 and now S4, the Tier Sets forcing certain talents which is really only half the problem, a problem thatās shared by a lot of classes/specs/builds, you lose too much not playing the build forced on you and itās talents which I believe need to be adjusted to be viable, itās nearly there, just need slight tweaking.
In a perfect world Iād love to see in all classes people pushing hard content with completely different builds taking full advantage of our new reworked Talent trees, but sadly this is not the case.
Even for Enhance currently M+ and Raiding builds are literally mostly the same with just a few talent swapped around and I mean as little as 1-2 Talents, which to me I think is a sad state.
1 Like
Itās hard thing to balance Iām seeing since DF talent trees have shown that classes that do not need to deviate too much between talents between AoE/M+ and Single Target tend to fair extremely well in both content. Classes that do not do this are often presented with a problem in which they have to double down on being good at a one damage profile and exceedingly bad at another. Ret paladin and Unholy DK are prime example of this.
At the sametime, being able to have mostly the same kit with 1-2 talents swappable made Season 1 really cool and engaging since there was a lot of different fights in the raid that allowed for slightly different talent setups; Primal Council having a different cleave build than M+, Terros allowing for Storm if you wanted (even if it was in its worse iteration), Mythic Kurog taking Crash lightning, BroodKeeper being able to have fun with M+ talents for a fight, and Mythic Raz being able to show how Feral Lunge is an amazing ability (baseline when Blizzard?).
This is where I would agree with your earlier point:
Would love to have 2 point versatility again. Would be amazing for Storm and could make the build less stark choosing between single target and AoE/Cleave.
Although it appears thereās a constructive conversation happening here I am afraid I must dismiss it all to focus on the only comment that does matter:
In itās current iteration, barring the tuning of Storm build āfillerā being completely insane (which would only serve to benefit ele build regardless), you cannot āfixā storm. It will always be a degenerate spamming of Stormstrike in order to proc Ascendance, Stormblast, and additional damage from Tempest Strikes.
The balance druid solution presented here would be one way of changing it, but if said stacks came from SS, itās still just spamming SS on the menu.
Yeast already corrected you on this but you are casting significantly more SS than LL in Storm and ele builds respectively
This is something blizzard needs to work on and isnāt specific to enh, as you pointed out. But, I would gladly take the talent lock-ins over the absolute snooze-fest that S1 bonuses were.
1 Like
Nopeā¦ not even closeā¦ maybe if it was just some kind of elemental effect around the character without actually changing the characterā¦ but as it is Ascendance is just disgusting to me, I refuse to run it.
I will admit the idea of the Shaman suddenly syncing/limitbreaking in their control of the elemental forces is cool, but as executed not even close. Even ignoring the forced character transformation, we also have the issue of a sudden and drastic change in the behavior of base abilities. Which can throw off game play, at least it does for me, as suddenly I no longer have the cues I normally do for when Iām not right next to them because Enhancement has to be the only class that canāt have extra reach on their melee attacks.