End the war on solo gameplay in WoW

[Pawzer-moon-guard]

@Snozh-malganis

I think casuals doing heoric/normal, arena and mplus make up the bulk.

You’d be wrong there too, if you go back and look at stats for how many of the active subs cleared raids, did rated arena when they were actually publishing sub count you’d know better. Just like Naxx had such a low clear rate because the ‘solo/casual’ players took ages to level.

@Foossnacks-area-52

Yeah, because A- everyone who gets AOTC does mythic raiding too

Generally heroic raiders pushing towards the end of heroic kill 1-2 mythic bosses for extra loot because they’re easier than the heroic boss they may be progressing on. :3

@Foossnacks-area-52

I definitely don’t have a couple of mythic ToS achievements on the demon hunter I mained legion on alliance side dated 2017

Not that I can see, and that’s what you came after me for yeah? :3

@Foossnacks-area-52

Still haven’t explained how having an EU and a US game client is super beneficial to raiding though

It’s not? Blizzard however made it very clear EU forum feedback and chat doesn’t matter when they made Community Council US forums only, though. Which means you had to create a US license to post here, and you can’t use your EU chars to post here. I never made any claims about different licenses being ‘super beneficial to raiding’ but it appears you manifest things people never said into your head with alarming frequency.

[Akroth-herod]

@Snozh-malganis

There are 100s of guilds that went 5/10, 7/10, and 9/10 mythic that didn’t get CE but they are still mythic raiders.

So I actually went ahead and did some small math here. Keep in mind that these are rough estimates. We still don’t have any concrete numbers, but it is a good reference point, in my opinion, to understand the amount of mythic raiders in this game.

According to Wowprogress.com, exactly 8,640 guilds have cleared at least one boss in Mythic SoD. Assuming each guild has about 25 players per raid, that’s 216,000 players who have played at a mythic level.

However, I don’t really think we can consider guilds who haven’t cleared anything beyond the first three bosses to be considered “mythic” raiders. I think that this is a fair observation, especially this late into the tier cycle. If they were mythic raiders, they would have pushed more. I would say a significant chunk of these guilds likely spent most of this tier in heroic and went to mythic occasionally.

Assuming that this is the case, this bumps down the number of guilds in mythic down to 5463, or 136,575 players. If WoW has two million subscriptions (which is usually what it’s considered to be at), that isn’t even 10% of the population who have done mythic.

Again, rough estimations, and not exactly absolute, but I do think it’s productive to the discourse at hand.

Are they smaller? Probably not, but they are small nonetheless, and people have accurately outlined why this game seems to be designed around them. It certainly doesn’t add up.

[Antiman-bloodhoof]

@Snozh-malganis

I think casuals doing heoric/normal, arena and mplus make up the bulk.

Agreed. I also think that some that are asking for more/better solo content fall into this group for the times their guild/friends/etc. are not on to do the raid, arena, M+, etc. I know I do. There are also those that might have ran such at one time but got burned out or their RL situation changed so they are doing the content they can do and might want to be able to get back in to the raiding/M+/Arena scene as soon as they can.

[Snozh-malganis]

@Pawzer-moon-guard

You’d be wrong there too, if you go back and look at stats for how many of the active subs cleared raids, did rated arena when they were actually publishing sub count you’d know better. Just like Naxx had such a low clear rate because the ‘solo/casual’ players took ages to level

You can play and not clear an active raid even on heroic.

[Snozh-malganis]

@Akroth-herod

Again, rough estimations, and not exactly absolute, but I do think it’s productive to the discourse at hand.

Is there anyway to do the same thing for heroic? It would be interesting to see the rough numbers for heroic guilds

[Akroth-herod]

@Snozh-malganis

Is there anyway to do the same thing for heroic? It would be interesting to see the rough numbers for heroic guilds

If you go back far enough, you can see. That seems a little too tedious for my blood, though, as I’m sure there are more guilds who have completed heroic than there are ones who have completed mythic. I got this number from clicking on the pages until I hit the heroic clears.

[Snozh-malganis]

@Akroth-herod

If you go back far enough, you can see. That seems a little too tedious for my blood, though, as I’m sure there are more guilds who have completed heroic than there are ones who have completed mythic. I got this number from clicking on the pages until I hit the heroic clears

Understand that. I’m still at work or I would do it.

I think the overall number of people raiding is higher than most people think. However it’s all subjective as there is no way to confirm numbers

[Foossnacks-area-52]

Heroic is challenging due to the nonstandard raid size. We really just know how many guilds killed different bosses. 18,193 killed Gru and 15,354 killed painsmith. At minimum 153,540 killed painsmith but it could also be 460,620. In reality it isn’t either of those because all heroic raids are neither the smallest nor largest size.

[Snozh-malganis]

I’m sure there is a way to search the number of guilds that have killed sylv on heroic on warcraftlogs or WoW progress

[Foossnacks-area-52]

WC logs says 11,276 kills have been logged on the progress tab for heroic, I do believe that specifically is guilds.

[Antiman-bloodhoof]

Even Raider.io might have that kind of information, at least by server/server and faction, like mine has 20 horde guilds that have downed her.

[Snozh-malganis]

Probably. I’m just still at work and unable to look. I’d prefer to do that on my pc lol

[Briandris-laughing-skull]

@Kuljek-baelgun

You want solo content because you aren’t good enough for group content that gives the best rewards.

Let’s pretend you are correct and that solo/casual players are ALL terrible whiny lazy players.

Why then, do want us near your content? You want us joining your raid and wiping your group?

Why is it so wrong to ask for something we can do that feels rewarding and progressive WITHOUT MESSING UP your good time?

If I’m willing to spend double or triple, heck even 10x more attempts to complete a challenge you breeze through, I still completed it. I still “earned” the reward.

@Kuljek-baelgun

Complaining and whining until the bar is lowered, it is a never ending cycle of those who can’t compete.

No different than the “can compete” players complaining and whining until the bar is raised, LOL. That’s also a never-ending cycle.

You think Blizzard sees a differences in a “good” player’s $20 versus a “bad” player’s $20? It’s all the same shade of green to them.

@Kuljek-baelgun

The mental gymnastics from the average forum user is astounding.

The arrogance, belittling and “I don’t want it so you can’t have it” mentality is also astounding.

@Foossnacks-area-52

Yep, my raid progress is only in the top 10% of the player base, not the top 1%.

If you aren’t even completing end game hard modes and you’re in the “top 10% of the playerbase” I’m having a hard time understanding how you’re the “majority” as a skilled group player and we’re the “minority” as unskilled casual/solo’s.

If you are the majority AND in the top 10% then it sounds like you aren’t as skilled as you think you are and us lowly, bad players might have a chance at completing some “mythic” solo content.

@Høneypøt-moon-guard

And even if I was playing with nice humans,

I don’t even want to play with nice humans most days. I just want to do my thing. If I get distracted by my cat, husband, tv etc, I want to get up and walk away from my game till I’m ready to come back. I mostly solo the real world as well. I have a couple close friends that don’t live close to me, so visits are uncommon. This is enough for me. I don’t need to interact with people to enjoy myself. Going even further than that, if I don’t get time to myself to get lost in my own brain, my stress levels begin a steady climb upwards until I DO get some alone time to reset my system.

I’m not sure why me choosing an MMO to spend that time in is so illogical or threatening to group players. If you think about it the earth is a MMRW Massive Multiplayer Real World. So are people saying that it’s wrong of me to go a restaurant for dinner alone? Is it wrong of me to take a good book to the public park for the day? If I was walking down the street alone would these people think I was “bad” at life?

I recognize that this doesn’t mesh with a group setting. I don’t want to make people wait because my cat is demanding a cuddle RIGHT NOW. I don’t want to get in anyone else’s way of a good time.

That doesn’t mean I don’t deserve to love Azeroth and spend my time within it’s world. I’m not asking you to clear the park so I can read for a day, I’m quite content to find a quiet corner to hang out in.

[Eleusia-myzrael]

@Snozh-malganis

I’m sure there is a way to search the number of guilds that have killed sylv on heroic on warcraftlogs or WoW progress

Those sites only track guilds or players with raid kills. The percentage of players who killed Sylv is going to be represented way too high because it doesn’t include the entire active playerbase.

[Pyromor-shandris (Pyromor)]

@Kuljek-baelgun

The honest truth

If you can’t even handle group content, you wouldn’t be able to do solo content.

You want solo content because you aren’t good enough for group content that gives the best rewards.

You are attempting to justify solo content when it would just put you back into the same exact position you are in now. Bad gear and no friends. News flash if they do add solo content it is going to be challenging and you will just complain it’s to hard.

Complaining and whining until the bar is lowered, it is a never ending cycle of those who can’t compete.

“O I don’t have time”

Then you wouldn’t have time for solo content either.

The mental gymnastics from the average forum user is astounding.

If you’re in Korthia doing Kroke and people enter the fight is that not group content?

[Eleusia-myzrael]

@Snozh-malganis

The thing to me is that the devs have to answer for a bottom line. By then not catering to solos makes me beleive that solos are one of the smallest groups playing the game if not the smallest.

Devs have proven again and again that their real boss is the elitist raiding minority. In 9.2, raiders won’t even have to do much world content for reputation gains because a few high-profile players threw tantrums, and the devs were quick to respond with changes on PTR.

The ability to swap covenants without a cooldown was also a wish granted for competitive players to be able to switch covenants for each individual dungeon or activity. I still remember competitive player outcries like: “Oh noes, I will be doing 1.62% less DPS because I chose the wrong covenant. I am absolutely hemorrhaging a massive amount of DPS because of Blizzard!”

Top-end players had already gotten their wishes granted with higher raid drops, a Valor system exclusive to M+, and lower iLvl for PvP gear in PvE, while casual and solo players are subjected to more grinds for lower relative iLvls in each successive patch.

The majority of players do not do competitive group content, and they have no idea what the heck is going on in the PTR. So unfortunately, the noisy elitists go in and ruin everything for the average player—who may have to wait until 9.2.5 to have any hope of a worthwhile patch.

[Inachu-greymane]

@Erythrae-stormrage

@Eleusia-myzrael

Truth is stranger than fiction. The top MMO in history has sabotaged itself by trying to force its entire playerbase into doing what only the maniacal minority has expressed interested in doing.

Again, not sure you really thought this through, rando on the internet.

But it is all true.

[Snozh-malganis]

You’re so delusional

[Ellesse-ysera]

To be honest, every mmo on the market is a skill based game based around elements that might as well not be in a persistent world. FPS and MOBAs have more in common with every reward system than an RPG. Load up a 5-25 player coop map, and get rewards easier and better than everything else in the game.

[Sabbia-moonrunner (Sabbia)]

I mean I would tell you to go play Lost Ark but I’m sure people will just say they don’t like it, don’t understand it, can’t move in it(lol), or can’t get used to the combat. Pretty sure just about every dungeon in that game can be soloed, as well as all the other content that can be done alone.

WoW is probably never going to go the route of single player style content, it’s just not that kind of game. What you are getting in 9.2, and what has been released thus far, is probably about the extent of it. I could be surprised in the next expansion, we’ll see, but I doubt it.

And before anyone says anything about FF14, that game is even more group oriented than WoW is.