End the war on solo gameplay in WoW

[Theresa-sisters-of-elune]

@Erythrae-stormrage

Why would a solo player need a boost when the Ilvl given out doing world content is strong enough for the world content?

Because the world content rewards are not high enough to qualify for any other content (either due to Blizzard’s tuning or community issues).

Until SL, any type of player could feasibly gear up by enjoying the content that provided the rewards. But starting in SL, content doesn’t always provide appropriate rewards, or in the case of Torghast any rewards at all.

Blizzard has intentionally created these walls where the base-level rewards are locked behind pre-made group gatekeepers. WoW was never, ever like this before. Assuming that devs are not incompetent enough to intentionally kill their player base out of arrogance, why else would they do this other than to stimulate the token market?

@Erythrae-stormrage

Why do solo players even need better gear to down world content to begin with?

Because players need to become more powerful over time, even if they exclusively do world content.

Just like Mythic raiders “need” that gear to drop after they have downed the last Mythic boss of the tier, or key runners “need” that Great Vault every week to fill out their set even after achieving KSM.

This is just how RPGs work. SL devs are so desperate to drain every last drop out of their player base that they forgot to consider the possibility that millions of players would want nothing to do with either the infinite anima cosmetics farm or the newly prescribed three endgame pillars.

Note: I doubt that even the so-called solo players are truly doing world quests exclusively. Some of them would even want to do group content if they could qualify for it. Any other content out there, including legacy group content, is made a whole lot easier with better gear.

[Theresa-sisters-of-elune]

@Snozh-malganis

What you’re not comprehending is that solo content isnt challenging.

What you’re not comprehending is that people can do group content while wearing rewards from solo content.

And not all players are demanding a challenge. They are happy to be rewarded just for putting in the time and effort.

@Snozh-malganis

233 gear from Korthia is more than enough to do heroic sod

Yes, but many groups are going to require higher so that they can clear more easily for set pieces, shards, and Stygian Embers.

[Blitzkareeg-area-52 (Blitzkareeg)]

@Erythrae-stormrage

And you get your pittance of gear worthy of solo content. Gear dropped from group content should not fall into the clutches of players who refuse to do it and would rather be selfish whiners to the detriment of everyone.

I am selfish how? Grinding 10 characters through Korthis, 2-3 cov’s and working my azz off for 233 ilvl gear? Why? Because i would like Blizz to raise the ilvl of ALL gear for 9.2 so i can at least get ilvl 252 gear?

Thats selfish?

Yeah ok.

@Snozh-malganis

If you honestly think that group content is people grouping in Korthia you’re even less smart than I thought you were.

Nice way to twist my words troll. Thats all you do! Twist EVERYONES words to fit you’re narrative! You are pathetic!

[Vòhnkar-kelthuzad]

If you’re a solo player, and expect gear anything higher than the 246 gear you will be able to get in the next zone, plus your max lvl legendary, then I have some bad news for you, you don’t need anything more and don’t deserve it lol…

Can already see the “I pay the same money you do, don’t tell me what I don’t deserve” comments coming. Just get over it…

Hope blizzard continues to ignore the folks who play solo and expect awesome gear from it, just to complete your daily’s or solo old content faster L.M.A.O

Only way I would want to see solo content that provided mythic gear is if another mage tower challenge system was introduced and you had to push it to a +15 level solo.
Not this failure thing called torghast.
Here comes all the mad cry babies and smart a$$ comments

[Snozh-malganis]

@Theresa-sisters-of-elune

What you’re not comprehending is that people can do group content while wearing rewards from solo content.

Then that isnt solo content.

@Theresa-sisters-of-elune

And not all players are demanding a challenge. They are happy to be rewarded just for putting in the time and effort.

You are never going to get mythic raid level gear from just time and effort. Also Korthia proved people dont want to put time and effort into anything.

@Theresa-sisters-of-elune

Yes, but many groups are going to require higher so that they can clear more easily for set pieces, shards, and Stygian Embers.

The only groups that required higher than 233 for heroic are mythic raiders going for a speed clear. Even if you were 240 or 250 you wouldnt be invited because you wouldnt have aotc so its not a gear thing. Its not mythic r aiders job to carry you through content.

[Snozh-malganis]

@Blitzkareeg-area-52

Nice way to twist my words troll. Thats all you do! Twist EVERYONES words to fit you’re narrative! You are pathetic!

I didnt twist anything. Its literally what you said.

“Nope! I have not seen a party of players except inside the rift in Korthia. Even then, i see more solo players soloing the big green mobs than i ever do groups. So spare me already.”

[Høneypøt-moon-guard]

Ppl should stop feeding this dude ^

Not the best pvp rating and didn’t even complete mage tower but always argues and acts like a God. It’s very confusing.

[Snozh-malganis]

@Høneypøt-moon-guard

Ppl should stop feeding this dude ^

People dont like dealing with facts.

@Høneypøt-moon-guard

Not the best pvp rating

LOL because this is a PvP discussion? Even then I have more exp then you do. I didnt buy my 2200 lool

@Høneypøt-moon-guard

didn’t even complete mage tower

Didnt even try mage tower.

@Høneypøt-moon-guard

but always argues and acts like a God

Never claimed to be a god once.

@Høneypøt-moon-guard

t’s very confusing.

Only because you arent the sharpest pencil.

[Antiman-bloodhoof]

@Vòhnkar-kelthuzad

Only way I would want to see solo content that provided mythic gear

If this is what you think the bulk of solo players want, I have a bridge to sell you. What most solo players are asking for is either harder content to earn their gear OR a way to upgrade the gear they can get via the content they do, maybe even itemized more for solo content.

People that think solo players are asking for mythic gear, just because one baddie who claims to be a solo player wants such, have ZERO place in discussions like this. trying to make the community into just 2 groups is idiotic and just shows an unwillingness to work something out that benefits the bulk of players.

[Blitzkareeg-area-52 (Blitzkareeg)]

It just amazes me hoe some people even relate to your lies. You’re come back was lame, and not even close to what i said. You are just making stuff up at this point.

[Snozh-malganis]

@Blitzkareeg-area-52

It just amazes me hoe some people even relate to your lies.

What did I lie about?

@Blitzkareeg-area-52

ou’re come back was lame, and not even close to what i said.

I literally copy and pasted what you said.

@Blitzkareeg-area-52

You are just making stuff up at this point.

What?

@Blitzkareeg-area-52

Nope! I have not seen a party of players except inside the rift in Korthia. Even then, i see more solo players soloing the big green mobs than i ever do groups. So spare me already.

Literally what you said.

[Warzug-mankrik]

Quick late-night/insomnia bump

Let’s push this thread to 1500+ comments boys

[Theresa-sisters-of-elune]

@Snozh-malganis

Then that isnt solo content.

My playing habits may differ from other players on this post, but I think that having solo content giving decent gear rewards benefits everyone on the spectrum. Many players enjoy doing both group and solo content. You should be able to gear up from your choice of content, to do your choice of content.

@Snozh-malganis

You are never going to get mythic raid level gear from just time and effort.

That’s fine. No one expects Mythic raiding gear.

But keep in mind that we used to be able to get Normal or Heroic iLvls from open world and queued content, albeit slower. And we were able to get near-Mythic iLvls in 8.3 from soloing Horrific Visions (470 iLvl when Mythic was 475 iLvl). So the Shadowlands gear gatekeeping really came as a shock to millions of solo/casual/busy players, who promptly unsubbed.

@Snozh-malganis

The only groups that required higher than 233 for heroic are mythic raiders going for a speed clear.

Groups require whatever they want. Heroic rewards 239/246, so you are definitely going to see groups requiring more than 233 if you check the group finder.

@Snozh-malganis

Even if you were 240 or 250 you wouldnt be invited because you wouldnt have aotc so its not a gear thing.

You can often get into groups without AoTC early in the patch. But sadly, groups that aren’t as stringent about who they let in are more likely to wipe or disband.

By the way, you are admitting here that groups require AoTC to do Heroic raids, so you have to realize that no matter how skilled you are you can’t just go out to do the challenging content for better gear. The devs, and the hardcore community, both have played a role in the SL endgame excluding the average player from meaningful progression.

@Snozh-malganis

Its not mythic r aiders job to carry you through content.

That’s fine. I don’t want to be carried, for free or for gold.

[Snozh-malganis]

@Theresa-sisters-of-elune

My playing habits may differ from other players on this post, but I think that having solo content giving decent gear rewards benefits everyone on the spectrum. Many players enjoy doing both group and solo content. You should be able to gear up from your choice of content, to do your choice of content.

You already get decent gear rewards for solo content from Korthia.

@Theresa-sisters-of-elune

That’s fine. No one expects Mythic raiding gear.

There are people that do. you should also never get anything higher than normal raid loot for solo.

@Theresa-sisters-of-elune

But keep in mind that we used to be able to get Normal or Heroic iLvls from open world and queued content, albeit slower. And we were able to get near-Mythic iLvls in 8.3 from soloing Horrific Visions (470 iLvl when Mythic was 475 iLvl). So the Shadowlands gear gatekeeping really came as a shock to millions of solo/casual/busy players, who promptly unsubbed.

Korthia is Normal last two bosses ilvl.

Visions were a terrible idea.

@Theresa-sisters-of-elune

So the Shadowlands gear gatekeeping really came as a shock to millions of solo/casual/busy players, who promptly unsubbed.

Its not gatekeeping.

@Theresa-sisters-of-elune

Groups require whatever they want. Heroic rewards 239/246, so you are definitely going to see groups requiring more than 233 if you check the group finder.

Ok and? Its still good enough for most groups. The groups it wont be good for are the ones doing speed clears. I already covered this.

@Theresa-sisters-of-elune

You can often get into groups without AoTC early in the patch. But sadly, groups that aren’t as stringent about who they let in are more likely to wipe or disband.

There are still groups that dont require it or you can form your own.

@Theresa-sisters-of-elune

By the way, you are admitting here that groups require AoTC to do Heroic raids, so you have to realize that no matter how skilled you are you can’t just go out to do the challenging content for better gear. The devs, and the hardcore community, both have played a role in the SL endgame excluding the average player from meaningful progression.

Groups not usually inviting people without AOTC isnt even a SL thing. All you sound like is you are making excuses.

@Theresa-sisters-of-elune

That’s fine. I don’t want to be carried, for free or for gold.

Yes you do based on your anwsers

[Eleusia-myzrael]

@Antiman-bloodhoof

What most solo players are asking for is either harder content to earn their gear OR a way to upgrade the gear they can get via the content they do, maybe even itemized more for solo content.

Yes, that is a perfect summary of the situation as I see it. It is too late to develop content specifically for solo players in 9.2, which is why I would suggest adding gear progression to Torghast or allowing Zereth Mortis gear to be upgraded eventually with Cosmic Flux, anima, or some other currency.

@Antiman-bloodhoof

People that think solo players are asking for mythic gear, just because one baddie who claims to be a solo player wants such, have ZERO place in discussions like this. trying to make the community into just 2 groups is idiotic and just shows an unwillingness to work something out that benefits the bulk of players.

A lot of these elitists are just saying “no because I say so” or “solo players are lazy, bad, and entitled” like broken records without even thinking about how it would benefit the majority of players and the longevity of the game itself; and to keep from looking like fools they have to use strawmen arguments about how solo players just want a full set of Mythic BiS mailed to them on patch launch day, make false claims that the game has been like this since Vanilla, or argue that providing regular, meaningful power rewards for a variety of gamers is somehow bad design for an MMO.

[Sarama-firetree]

@Warzug-mankrik

Let’s push this thread to 1500+ comments boys

*Women and others included!

[Phibbus-farstriders (Phibbus)]

@Warzug-mankrik

Quick late-night/insomnia bump

Let’s push this thread to 1500+ comments boys

Heh, Snozh replies to every post, so it’ll be quick. It’s like a challenge match telethon donation.

[Amantara-darrowmere]

As a solo casual player since the very beginning of Wow, I just want to say thank you for this post. I completely agree with you on every point. My husband and I have enjoyed this game for years but the forced group content and toxicity in said groups is what finally drove us away. You’ll find us hanging out in FFXIV now, far less toxicity. Thank you for your honesty, someone finally stepped up and said what needed to be said. Casual players matter too. Bravo!

[Warzug-mankrik]

@Amantara-darrowmere

My husband and I have enjoyed this game for years but the forced group content and toxicity in said groups is what finally drove us away. You’ll find us hanging out in FFXIV now,

Yeah, I’m convinced the playerbase is now tilted “in favor” of the solo/casual players versus the guilded/group-oriented players.

Of course it’s all anecdotal observations, but if I had to guess the playerbase looks something like this in the year 2022:

• anywhere from 35-40% guilded/group-oriented/social players that regularly group up with their friends or guildies
• around ~60% solo/casual players that occasionally dabble in LFG pugs, but other than that they mostly play the game solo via automated matchmaking modes such as random BGs, LFR, Dungeon Finder, etc

If it was like 2006, then yeah, I would say the playerbase was decidedly tilted “in favor” of the guilded/group-oriented players… probably because back then the game was designed in such an “anti-casual” way that you just couldn’t progress very far as a solo/casual player. You certainly wouldn’t see the raid past say, the 1st boss, as an unguilded solo/casual player.

You basically HAD to be in a guild back then to see the raid, to see the endgame, etc. The solo player was definitely the minority back during that early era.

But the devs have made some pro-solo/casual player changes over the years and you can now see the raid, see the end-bosses with a simple click of the “Find Group” button via LFR. The gear is still crap (as the OP highlights), but solo/casual players can at least see the end-bosses/dialogue/RP without a guild and on their own time.

[Briandris-laughing-skull]

@Nyåruko-wyrmrest-accord

You think the great vault should be made available?

Don’t put words in my mouth. I never said that. I said my power progression should feel equal to yours within my content by the time new content is released.

@Nyåruko-wyrmrest-accord

With Stygia you can get any piece you are missing, raiders sometimes go months trying to get that one item.

So can raiders, they don’t have to wait.

@Kaitashi-earthen-ring

A lot of players just have no idea how much work and planning goes into progression guild efforts. They see raiders in Mythic Gear and think that all they had to do was just show up and press a few buttons.

There’s also a lot of players that DO understand because they used to raid, but no longer do, that still enjoy other aspects of WoW.

@Sshhsshhsshh-proudmoore

What other content are you doing if stuff like world quests or Korthia don’t give you high enough gear to complete it?

Torghast. Layer 12 recommended ilvl (by Blizzard) is 252. Are you saying that because I don’t raid Mythic, I shouldn’t be able to complete this content even though it IS designed for solo queuing?

@Snozh-malganis

Korthia awards 233. You don’t need higher then that if you aren’t raiding or doing group content.

Torghast Layer 12 recommends ilvl 252. Torghast can be queued into by a solo player.

@Vòhnkar-kelthuzad

If you’re a solo player, and expect gear anything higher than the 246 gear

Still not enough for the recommended 252 for Torghast.

A small minority of solo players are whiners and want something for nothing. There’s also a small minority raiders who think they are better than everyone else and should be treated like gods.

The majority of players, solo and raid/m+ players, simply want the game to feel FUN no matter what content they are doing. We all pay the same sub fees, so YES we do all have the right to let Blizzard know how we feel and what we’d like to see moving forward.

Those of you responding to me calling me a whiner wanting something for nothing are making assumptions and reading between the lines to suit your own narrative. All I’ve said is that as a solo/casual whatever-you-want-to-call-me player, WoW feels tedious, time-consuming, frustrating and reward-less. I am perfectly capable AND willing to work equally as hard as any raider/M+ player for those rewards.

What I AM complaining about is having little to no avenue to obtain said rewards outside of group content and that feels bad.

I AM saying I feel like my sub fees for solo play should feel just as FUN, REWARDING and POWERFUL as any raider/M+ feels for their sub fees. If you don’t agree with that, then you are part of that whiny lazy minority crying for no reason at all. How or where I get my gear from doesn’t affect your group play or ability to do the things that make you happy in the game AT ALL.