Complacency isn’t what I’m talking about period…Facts are that we have a Society that have been taught narcissistic tendency’s to be acceptable. And it’s not on any level healthy for anyone Socially. Agree kindness and encouraging others to build a good mental fortitude is a balancing act of mental gymnastics period. It all starts with a strong moral environment socially in many respects. And being competitive and a sense of accomplishment is fundamental,But some have a severe misunderstanding what is considered morally ambiguity. It’s hard to teach these finite issues within a hostile environment put simply.
1 Like
I don’t wanna be a turd, but you don’t teach anything online outside of the shared experience.
If you want to leverage the social dynamic to teach. You do it in a place where physicality can be assessed.
Sure the online experience is a mixture of extreme individuality. How can it be anything else? It’s stripped of context, social weight; roles and responsibility.
For both the person communicating and the one interpretating.
You just need to stumble over the conclusion that it’s a 
medium in which to express and comprehend anything outside of objective based experiences.
It’d be nice if the net was actually valuable beyond a simple information source. It ain’t.
So you mean pre-raid and through half of all the game’s progression raiding content? Yeah, pretty significant. What are you implying? Are you implying people won’t care about BiS pieces they will have for months, perhaps even a year?
Don’t try to explain things to me when you clearly haven’t read the blue posts. The ITEMS will be in their 1.12 version, that’s the problem I had with PVP gear! The AVAILABILITY of those items will be phased. I am arguing about the availability of Molten Core loot in Phase 1 and 2 and the effect it has on the raiding landscape.
I cannot stress this enough: Even if it did occur in Vanilla, these emergent behaviours become worse as more and more players adopt them. There might have been a clued in minority in Vanilla WoW exploiting this, not causing much ruckus, but now everybody knows.
The supply of leather is static, 6 or so every time the six spawns pop, however long that may take (lets say half an hour), for the whole damn server. It takes 22 leather for a single set. That’s a set every 1 hour and 50 minutes on average. That’s IT! No more.
The demand for that leather extends to a THIRD of the classes in the game looking to do endgame PVE content that are in the know, which is basically everyone because any monkey looking to raid gets fed a pre-raid bis list by their guild by now even if they didn’t know.
If you can do basic math, then congratulations! You can realize it’s going to bottleneck HARD! Harder than it EVER did in Vanilla. That’s the point. This is not a typical resource. There’s “competition”, and there’s “entitlement” and THEN there’s “not even sodding remotely imaginable” in a pure mathematical sense.
Fel Lotus, the Burning Crusade equivalent behaved like that. Black Lotus does not. It is it’s own discrete herb node offering a single copy each time.
1 Like
By Alliance? Doesn’t that open up an opportunity for a big Horde army to come farm honor?
That was my point about Battle Shout spam as well. However, according to some Blizz has already fixed/nerfed that. We’ll soon know.
Social Engineering also wasn’t as much of a thing until later on as well. When UBRS was 15 man, people were just happy to get enough people in a raid. Beggars can’t be choosers.
Don’t forget Tanks “selling” their services. Heck we have people on here reserving names and selling them for gold. Talk about LAZY.
Here’s a genius idea. . Level up an alt like we did.
This is all true, but I think some sanity about “pre-raid BiS” has to intrude at some point.
Here are the Devilsaur Gauntlets:
https:// vanilla-twinhead.twinstar. cz/?item=15063 (remove spaces)
And here are some green gloves that can be bought cheaply on the AH:
https:// wowwiki.fandom. com /wiki/Masterwork_Gauntlets
Say we’re talking about a hunter, so he goes for “of the monkey”.
The guy who goes for the AH green gets 14 Agi, 13 Stam, 210 armor.
14Agi = 28 RAP + about 0.3% crit.
The guy who gets Devilsaur gets 28RAP (same amount), and 9 Stam (5 less). He gets 1% crit. If he also has the leggings, then he gets the 2% hit bonus. Let’s assign half of that to the gloves, so 1% hit.
So the guy with pre-raid BiS has 0.75% extra crit and 1% extra hit. Could be less if Blessing of Kings is in play. Let’s say 3% extra dps because of synergy effects, etc. Over a guy in an AH green. Who also has a smidgen more survivability (stamina, armor, dodge).
Now, 3% times 14 pieces of gear is 42%, so I am not saying raid in AH greens. But I am saying that spending hundreds of hours on pre-raid BiS is not worth it. Long before that, those same hours should instead be getting spent on raiding ZG/MC (unless you have infinite time, in which case you’re probably one of those people camping Devilsaur spawns in the first place - Edited: And if your whole guild has infinite time, why aren’t you in MC?).
Edited: And thanks to this thread for inspiring me to go look up the old Beaststalker set. As far as I can see, it’s a complete POS.
2 Likes
while vanilla will have some similiar issues that have grown on p-servers over there years there will be many many differences:
there will be way more people on classic wow than any private server, with higher turnover rate and more casual playerbase.
everyone playing will have to pay for a subscription, this means very few broke nerds and third world farmers, most of them will stay on their private servers.
p-servers nerds overhype ‘pre-raid BiS’ gear. you can go into the first few tier raids in garbage gear and clear them just fine if you have a core group of people who know the raids. while good gear on paper, gasp people can manage to raid without wearing ANY devilsaur gear at all and no flasks! 100% do-able.
i think the p-server preoccupation with that stuff is due to vanilla being static, and these same nerds continually competing for the ‘server first’ kills over and over on each new rendition of p-servers. while some people will definitely be playing classic to “compete”, the majority of classic players will be playing out of nostalgia and look at competing to get “server first kills” on content most of us cleared 10+ years ago as kind of pathetic/lame. nostalgia will fuel classic wow, not server first nerds, especially after all the phases are unlocked and done with, they will go back to repeatedly competing for ‘firsts’ on the next pserver.
people on wow classic will be running molten core a lot, not for the crappy gear as you state, but for the fun of it, to complete that crappy class set of gear they never got to finish in vanilla, to run that raid with new friends, etc. the try hards will totally exist, and will do their thing, but unlike p-servers, they will be an extreme minority.
EDIT: ALSO: PHASING will make farming devilsaur leather significantly different from p-servers.
1 Like
I honestly don’t even think that. If I had the time, I might try joining a guild that was going for server firsts. But I don’t see where that guild would find it worth it to farm pre-raid BiS considering that the raids are available on day 1. I would think somebody trying for a server/world first MC is going to calculate the minimum viable gear that can be obtained without excessive grinding and head into MC as soon as they have it.
It would be a different story if the raids were going to be released a month or two after launch. If pservers worked that way, then I could definitely see it.
I generaly agree with you, but I think phases are going to happen much slower than you’re thinking. Phase 1 Phase 2 and 3 are going to have more than 2-3 months between them.
Honestly, expect something like 6 months. They are only going to release a new phase when sub numbers start to get low. They don’t want to rush through the phases. Trust me on this one. They want to use classic as a way to boost sub count during down periods in retail. They have no incentive to rush the phases out. And if they move too fast people will complain. Lots of people, because they’ll have hardly accomplished anything .
OP has now idea what their talking about. You cannot equate private servers having a few people camping the Devilsaurs and post it in these forums. It’s just not going to happen. It NEVER happened in Vanilla and it’s not going to happen now.
You never played Vanilla then lol…
I really didn’t see people reserving things much in normal dungeons. You’d see it more in raids, especially ones that were run by guilds.
Towards the end of Vanilla it happened a bit more but it was still pretty rare.
Blizzard may not tolerate the devilsaur/black lotus cartels, depending on how obvious any cross-faction collusion is within the game. If these are purely a private server phenomena, then IMO Blizzard could step in and rule this particular emergent behavior as inauthentic.
Mind you, I’m not saying that I hope they do this or even that I think they will do this. I just know that as a rule, they take a dim view of emergent behaviors that they decide are somehow exploitative in any way.
Yeah, I suppose you have a point there. However, they aren’t truly the “BiS” for every slot for every class. Like for some slots, sure, they are better by a considerable amount, say 10-20%. Other slots, it’s negligible.
Yes, that’s exactly what I said… It’s 1.12…
Anyways, these “cartels” aren’t going to be a problem in classic because like I said, the node timers, on official servers, have a wide variance in respawn times to prevent monopolizing. Same with mob timers. And you can’t monopolize mob spawns because anyone can compete for the tag pretty easily.
Pirate servers=/=Blizzard servers. Their math is wrong and they take shortcuts for things like respawn timers.
TLDR but Devilsaur/Black Lotus Cartels were in vanilla as well that is not a pserver thing
Rant.
I only read the first line of your post, and i sighed.
This is VANILLA wow. Your hand is not going to be held. The Devilsaur mafia was a historical AND COOL thing. A group of players TOOK CONTROL of an area; of a rare commodity. This in and of itself is a mission for EVERYONE ELSE.
IF the mafia comes back, it will be on EVERYONE else to band together to kick them out. Otherwise, the leather will be monopolized.
So instead of asking big-daddy-blizzard to save you from the bad guys that are PLAYING THE GAME. Form a plan, make alliances, and stop it from happening. COMPETE or die (to the inflated prices of the leather)
Oh and, you can all rest assured, some form of Devilsaur mafia will rise.
1 Like
“Ragnaros is frequently killed by the bulk of raiding guilds within 3-4 weeks of the servers release, which includes the 1-60 levelling process.”
I stopped taking anything you said seriously when I read this statement.
The top 1% of hard-core player will hit 60 in 5 days of game time or less. 120 hours. With atune and other pre-req that is ~140 hours. It is an exceptional achievement and takes both knowledge,skill and the ability to no life the game for a significant amount of time.
You are vastly overestimating. I wanted to write more. But lets be real I could list reasons for days.
1 Like
You’re gonna have to be way more specific as to what makes you think that, cause my Shaman and Rogue had over 100days combined /played when TBC came out.